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3500 in 1 jamma board does not boot


Valdy
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Posted (edited)

Hi Guys,

I just bought a 4 player creative arcades 2nd hand and it has a 3500 in 1 jamma games family inside.

After much trouble shooting I'm incline to believe that the 64 SSD may have died.

I was wondering, does anyone have a hard drive image I could download? I already have an ssd to test and hopefully it boots.

Currently I have no vga signal and no sound even tho fan spins and green light with mobo.

Everything is connected correctly inside and tested a different power supply with no luck.

If anyone could please help me I would certainly appreciate it. 

Folder with pictures if you are interested.

https://imgur.com/a/Hma2xzp

UPDATE

This are all the things I've done and unfortunately I have the same result. Jamma board gets a green light, CPU Fan spins, no video signal no audio.

+change power supply

+changed VGA cable

+Changed monitor

+SSD WORKS FINE. plugged it to another pc and can see the content

+CPU WORKS FINE. Replaced it with another working one and it made no difference.

+MOVED RAM TO DIF SLOT.

+Put a new stick of RAM. 

+tried booting w/o any RAM. No error beep. Same result. Green light, cpu fan spins. No video no soun.
+tried booting w/o ssd. No error beep. Same result. Green light, cpu fan spins. No video no soun.
+Had no bios battery. Placed a new cmos 2032 battery. Same result.

Edited by Valdy
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15 minutes ago, Davefjedi said:

Dosent sound like hard drive 

if the machine is not even booting to post (writing on the screen) it could be ram or cpu issue 

 

Wouldn't the light on the mobo be another color than green? Like, maybe flashing telling me something is wrong?

I unplugged the ssd and booted the arcade and the result was the same. No text, no vga signal. no sound. Green light and fan spinning.

A local arcade repair tech told me that is either the hard drive or he actual pcb. 

Is there a way to find out if the PCB is working or not."

If I can get this working I will probably stripe it and rewire the control panel to use a pi but i don't really have a single clue how to do it and I've asked a few folks around austin, tx how much they would charge to do the wiring and i don't even get a reply lol. 

Andy from Ultimarc told me what to buy and do when I asked him how to use the control panel with a pi w/o having to start from scratch but I'm not sure I understand.

"You would be able to use a J-PAC for the JAMMA connector and I-PAC 2 for the other connector, which would need to be cut off."

I also saw something called I pac 4 but again, this is so far beyond my understanding that I get vertigo just thinking about all that wiring. 

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even with a flat bios battery it should at least post im leaning towards a faulty PCB 

rather then a PI you could just throw in a multi pcb like a Pandora or Game elf  cheap slots straight in and gives you time to sort the PI setup 

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I have a games family 3k-in-1 but unfortunately its a much older IDE based one and I don't believe the Chinese win2k supports booting from sata natively for my image, your 3.5k in one looks to be a much newer version.

Have you checked if the SSDs filesystem enumerates as a secondary disk in another system? (as long as you make sure to avoid writing back toward the drive, it should be ok to check in another system, this is my preferred method to clone, backup image and also to even modify my games family OS) 

 

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, qwertylesh said:

I have a games family 3k-in-1 but unfortunately its a much older IDE based one and I don't believe the Chinese win2k supports booting from sata natively for my image, your 3.5k in one looks to be a much newer version.

Have you checked if the SSDs filesystem enumerates as a secondary disk in another system? (as long as you make sure to avoid writing back toward the drive, it should be ok to check in another system, this is my preferred method to clone, backup image and also to even modify my games family OS) 

 

I would but unfortunately the ssd is glued in lol. I could try to pull but I'm afraid I may crack the board in two.

Yeah is sata ssd. 

There is a hdd to buy for $ 174 but no returns. I think the jama is available for $500 but at that point may buy a cheap PC for mame.

2 hours ago, Davefjedi said:

even with a flat bios battery it should at least post im leaning towards a faulty PCB 

rather then a PI you could just throw in a multi pcb like a Pandora or Game elf  cheap slots straight in and gives you time to sort the PI setup 

I thought about going the Pandora route but, as you can see from the pictures, things get a little complicated under the hood. At least for me. I've been researching for about two weeks now and learning.

Is a 4 player control panel and player 1 and two go to the jamma and players 3 and 4 go to a separate smaller control board. 

Ive been looking at Pandoras but can't find where to plug the player 3 and 4.

I tried booting with a dif vga cable and even another psu and another monitor but got the same result. 

Also tried clicking on the video debug to get to vga. Still, no signal.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by Valdy
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Ah understood, mine originally had glued in ram (hot glue) it wasnt too bad to remove, mine originally it also had a rusty bios battery, and the cpu socket had a crack in it. 

 you could take the whole games family out, and sit it beside another system, running the sata data and power to the drive.

If that 64gb ssd is still healthy and dumpable, its worth making an image of, games family images are hard to come by.

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Posted (edited)
35 minutes ago, qwertylesh said:

Ah understood, mine originally had glued in ram (hot glue) it wasnt too bad to remove, mine originally it also had a rusty bios battery, and the cpu socket had a crack in it. 

 you could take the whole games family out, and sit it beside another system, running the sata data and power to the drive.

If that 64gb ssd is still healthy and dumpable, its worth making an image of, games family images are hard to come by.

That's a great suggestion. I will definitely do that. I'm learning now about  jamma pi. (Arpicade).I hope is plug and play as it looks. 

I just need to figure out where the other control 3 and 4 go. There is a white ribbon that goes out of the smaller control. Maybe I can connect that to the jamma pi? 

 

 

 

Edited by Valdy
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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Valdy said:

That's a great suggestion. I will definitely do that. I'm learning now about  jamma pi. (Arpicade).I hope is plug and play as it looks. 

I just need to figure out where the other control 3 and 4 go. There is a white ribbon that goes out of the smaller control. Maybe I can connect that to the jamma pi? 

 

 

 

Arpicade has an add-on board for 3 & 4 player  https://highscoresave.com/4-player-arpicade-jamma-adapter/

It's a great product but it's not necessarily a plug and play option. 

I haven't used these before but you could also look at a pandoras box and use the following to connect your 3 & 4 player to the USB port. They are for the family version but I can't imagine there would be too much different.

https://www.diyretroarcade.com/products/3a-pandoras-box-game-pad-conveter-to-use-4-players-on-pandoras-box

https://www.diyretroarcade.com/products/pandoras-box-6-family-sanwa-wiring-harness-0-187-terminal-2-player?pr_prod_strat=copurchase&pr_rec_id=355073ca1&pr_rec_pid=4726470148231&pr_ref_pid=4971949555847&pr_seq=uniform

Edited by Andyj965
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I'm fairly sure the debug board is breaking out for the P3 and P4 controls.

I have the same board, but since my arcade is 2p control deck, it never needed to have the debug board and ribbon wired to the jamma like yours has 🙂

heres a photo of how bad the button cell had gotten 😆 https://imgur.com/GBPUpq2

(i forgotten) but looking over some of my old pics when I worked on my arcade, originally the drive in mine was also mounted to the jamma PCB

Pyb8qr0.jpg

Heres some pics when i did work on my https://imgur.com/JiusY7m (uv damage original art) - mockups https://imgur.com/2rnciAx / https://imgur.com/yumgqOd - restored= https://imgur.com/xGTmmqQ

 

I hope you can get yours working again. I'd suspect if you can confirm the 3 partitions are present on the SSD and the two with volume letters aren't corrupt, then it may be a problem with the pc components, and those are easy enough to fix up 🙂

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9 hours ago, Andyj965 said:

Arpicade has an add-on board for 3 & 4 player  https://highscoresave.com/4-player-arpicade-jamma-adapter/

It's a great product but it's not necessarily a plug and play option. 

I haven't used these before but you could also look at a pandoras box and use the following to connect your 3 & 4 player to the USB port. They are for the family version but I can't imagine there would be too much different.

https://www.diyretroarcade.com/products/3a-pandoras-box-game-pad-conveter-to-use-4-players-on-pandoras-box

https://www.diyretroarcade.com/products/pandoras-box-6-family-sanwa-wiring-harness-0-187-terminal-2-player?pr_prod_strat=copurchase&pr_rec_id=355073ca1&pr_rec_pid=4726470148231&pr_ref_pid=4971949555847&pr_seq=uniform

Thank you for the suggestions.

I like the pandora converter but it looks like i would still have to rewired them?

Looks like that jamma for player 3 and 4 has to be broken up?

8 hours ago, qwertylesh said:

I'm fairly sure the debug board is breaking out for the P3 and P4 controls.

I have the same board, but since my arcade is 2p control deck, it never needed to have the debug board and ribbon wired to the jamma like yours has 🙂

heres a photo of how bad the button cell had gotten 😆 https://imgur.com/GBPUpq2

(i forgotten) but looking over some of my old pics when I worked on my arcade, originally the drive in mine was also mounted to the jamma PCB

Pyb8qr0.jpg

Heres some pics when i did work on my https://imgur.com/JiusY7m (uv damage original art) - mockups https://imgur.com/2rnciAx / https://imgur.com/yumgqOd - restored= https://imgur.com/xGTmmqQ

 

I hope you can get yours working again. I'd suspect if you can confirm the 3 partitions are present on the SSD and the two with volume letters aren't corrupt, then it may be a problem with the pc components, and those are easy enough to fix up 🙂

Wow. You did such a great job. I love how it turned out.

Yeah that button cell had seen better days lol.

I just need to figure out what to do with that p3 and p4. As per the suggestion above, I may have to rewired them. 

problem is, if I do that, then fixing the jamma will no longer be an option. 

 

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7 hours ago, Valdy said:

Thank you for the suggestions.

I like the pandora converter but it looks like i would still have to rewired them?

Looks like that jamma for player 3 and 4 has to be broken up?

 

The wires would need to be connected to the buttons and joysticks but are spade connectors so can just be pushed on. The other end would be connected to the interface box which would in turn be connected via USB to the pandoras box. The jamma connector is only doing buttons and joysticks for players 1 & 2 

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3 hours ago, Andyj965 said:

The wires would need to be connected to the buttons and joysticks but are spade connectors so can just be pushed on. The other end would be connected to the interface box which would in turn be connected via USB to the pandoras box. The jamma connector is only doing buttons and joysticks for players 1 & 2 

When you say "The wires"  you mean of player 3 and 4?

That seems like a reasonable thing to do.

Get a jamma pi, plug player 1 and 2 and get that adapter for 3 and 4.

Before I do that, I asked the creative arcades guys how much for a new pcb. They are prob gonna come back with a rediculous price.

I can't find this games family 3500 in 1 jamma board to buy anywhere. Only the blue 2xxx in 1 on ebay. Not sure if it would work plug and play like if I were to buy the same board 

I also don't know what CPU socket it is. I think the prob is the CPU and could try replacing it.

 

 

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regarding the games family. the top pcb (the actual games family jamma pcb) should be swappable, there may be slight hw revisions but they should generally function all the same really. the lower board (the pc parts) are all swappable with parts matching similar generation, you could even replace it with completely brand new stuff, the only main consideration to take into account is whether the custom OS can support the different driver change (think Drive Controller chipset) - this core reason is why mines stuck as a Pentium 4 (the Win2k mine is built upon doesn't support Sata drivers)

Yours seems newer since it looks like yours is Sata SSD already, so I'd say that the PC hardware is all replace-able you shouldn't run into issues with that regard. Same goes with the top PCB, I see no reason why that wouldn't be replace-able.  

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1 hour ago, Valdy said:

When you say "The wires"  you mean of player 3 and 4?

That seems like a reasonable thing to do.

Get a jamma pi, plug player 1 and 2 and get that adapter for 3 and 4.

Before I do that, I asked the creative arcades guys how much for a new pcb. They are prob gonna come back with a rediculous price.

I can't find this games family 3500 in 1 jamma board to buy anywhere. Only the blue 2xxx in 1 on ebay. Not sure if it would work plug and play like if I were to buy the same board 

I also don't know what CPU socket it is. I think the prob is the CPU and could try replacing it.

 

 

So the wires I was referring to are for player 3 & 4. But that adapter is just for the pandoras box, not Arpicade. 

To connect the 3 & 4 player buttons and joysticks to the Arpicade add-on board you would need something like this https://highscoresave.com/universal-15-pin-kick-harness-by-highscoresaves/ But they're out of stock.

So regardless of if you use pandoras box or Arpicade you will either need to modify or replace the wiring for players 3 & 4.

To find the CPU socket you would need to look at the actual motherboard of your games family. It'll have the model number on it and you can search for socket details from that. But CPUs are rarely the issue. 

If you want to try to troubleshoot your games family then I would recommend getting a little beep code speaker you can plug directly onto the motherboard (https://www.ebay.com/itm/163827428885?hash=item2624e02e15:g:jG8AAOSwHMJYLzpV&amdata=enc%3AAQAHAAAA4DMuNr5iafA1fx%2F3v6MD9issfRw%2F662NFe0eB7dtUyRGlMqr9pnAiBb3fMrIsDD8cY2pMfa3IKPc55DDZpFdblmGXooryqSJz1A412dqH46eY1u27X5KMeiPHuDlSUB%2FSz4yzxjBDuIwBXcdPldMf6fviy%2FBaRpZOZWNWmRN2lWl0%2Fij8GpsUTwWO6n%2BwzF9mwHhRRqc3j2TIoReXwC762cU4BBFRCW8oIJc5d53GlKNMDybdtpuOSnELPSvW9U%2FTNPeEqkrcrwGBJX%2FhGgkGv2EVhY8Kztqs1746rdOs8n1|tkp%3ABFBM_Jfhnbpg)

This should give you POST beeps during the boot process that may allow you to diagnose the issue with the games family.

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9 hours ago, Andyj965 said:

So the wires I was referring to are for player 3 & 4. But that adapter is just for the pandoras box, not Arpicade. 

To connect the 3 & 4 player buttons and joysticks to the Arpicade add-on board you would need something like this https://highscoresave.com/universal-15-pin-kick-harness-by-highscoresaves/ But they're out of stock.

So regardless of if you use pandoras box or Arpicade you will either need to modify or replace the wiring for players 3 & 4.

To find the CPU socket you would need to look at the actual motherboard of your games family. It'll have the model number on it and you can search for socket details from that. But CPUs are rarely the issue. 

If you want to try to troubleshoot your games family then I would recommend getting a little beep code speaker you can plug directly onto the motherboard (https://www.ebay.com/itm/163827428885?hash=item2624e02e15:g:jG8AAOSwHMJYLzpV&amdata=enc%3AAQAHAAAA4DMuNr5iafA1fx%2F3v6MD9issfRw%2F662NFe0eB7dtUyRGlMqr9pnAiBb3fMrIsDD8cY2pMfa3IKPc55DDZpFdblmGXooryqSJz1A412dqH46eY1u27X5KMeiPHuDlSUB%2FSz4yzxjBDuIwBXcdPldMf6fviy%2FBaRpZOZWNWmRN2lWl0%2Fij8GpsUTwWO6n%2BwzF9mwHhRRqc3j2TIoReXwC762cU4BBFRCW8oIJc5d53GlKNMDybdtpuOSnELPSvW9U%2FTNPeEqkrcrwGBJX%2FhGgkGv2EVhY8Kztqs1746rdOs8n1|tkp%3ABFBM_Jfhnbpg)

This should give you POST beeps during the boot process that may allow you to diagnose the issue with the games family.

Got it.

If I had to rewire player 3 and 4, then I probably would end up rewiring 1 and 2 and use an IPAc 4 for a USB out to use with a pi or PC .not sure if they would be spade connector tho.i would have to peal them? 

Right now the control wires go into this plug in connector thingy.

 

What else could go bad that would prevent the board from even booting to bios?

The monitor doesn't even recognize there's a signal when I turn it on.

Says no vga signal.

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Posted (edited)

In my earlier post, I shared a photo showing my HDD mounted to my Jamma PCB. In that picture theres two small square Green PCBs, the lower one is a VGA ribbon plugged to the PC's vga output, if yours is the same, you could test any other VGA output to that PCB to confirm the games family board is passing video signal from that ribbon to the jamma output to the display. (and if that works, then you know its something exclusively on the PC side - which means you can choose to swap the whole pc mobo to another cheap one if you like) if that VGA doesnt work through the jamma then you know that the issue is less likely to be the PC hardware and more likely anywhere between that little VGA pcb - the jamma PCB - the jamma connector to the arcades display.

 

They can be a bit of a pain to troubleshoot, as you need to be able to place hardware close nearby the assembly to test. an M-F VGA cable would make it alot easier to test another display output setup closeby.

 

The ribbon cabling there is not great quality, so be aware that it's fragile enough to fray easily. (just use caution when unplugging it and moving it around)

Edited by qwertylesh
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Posted (edited)
8 hours ago, qwertylesh said:

In my earlier post, I shared a photo showing my HDD mounted to my Jamma PCB. In that picture theres two small square Green PCBs, the lower one is a VGA ribbon plugged to the PC's vga output, if yours is the same, you could test any other VGA output to that PCB to confirm the games family board is passing video signal from that ribbon to the jamma output to the display. (and if that works, then you know its something exclusively on the PC side - which means you can choose to swap the whole pc mobo to another cheap one if you like) if that VGA doesnt work through the jamma then you know that the issue is less likely to be the PC hardware and more likely anywhere between that little VGA pcb - the jamma PCB - the jamma connector to the arcades display.

 

They can be a bit of a pain to troubleshoot, as you need to be able to place hardware close nearby the assembly to test. an M-F VGA cable would make it alot easier to test another display output setup closeby.

 

The ribbon cabling there is not great quality, so be aware that it's fragile enough to fray easily. (just use caution when unplugging it and moving it around)

Just to make sure. You mean connect vga to this green guy? or the one under it that looks same size as vga but male?

20220706_183236.jpg

20220706_183022.jpg

By the looks of it. I would have to disconnect that green one and connect the VGA direct to the tv?

The creative arcades told me that I should still hear something if i was playing blind. but I have no sound at all.

Edit:

Sorry, the more time passes the more I understand. So i need to b uy a M to F VGA cable to plug to that one vga that I see under it to the monitor. 

lol I can do that and report aback. 

Edited by Valdy
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Posted (edited)

Hey! ours are different. my onboard VGA passes through my jamma board, and through the jamma harness to my CRT. It looks like yours just has that black cable which probably goes to your arcade screen. So the jamma PCB is not involved with the video signal at all on yours. you can try running that black cable to another system to confirm that your arcade screen works.

 

Edited by qwertylesh
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I can see in the picture also that your games family PC is an LGA775 motherboard, so it's probably a Core2Duo or similar system.

 

Since the video output is direct, chances are that it is indeed the pc thats broken, you should be able to repair it, you can if youre confident take apart the top jamma board off the pc. I've done it for mine a few times, when i upgraded CPU and ram. 🙂 

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Posted (edited)
40 minutes ago, qwertylesh said:

I can see in the picture also that your games family PC is an LGA775 motherboard, so it's probably a Core2Duo or similar system.

 

Since the video output is direct, chances are that it is indeed the pc thats broken, you should be able to repair it, you can if youre confident take apart the top jamma board off the pc. I've done it for mine a few times, when i upgraded CPU and ram. 🙂 

ok I cancelled the f to m vga cable.

I am confident changing pieces of a computer like ram, cpu, etc. but this looks all jammed up. I will probably realize is not as crazy as it looks.

I asked the creative arcade tech his opinion on how the games family would react depending on what goes out. He said that,

"Generally when the CPU goes bad, the system would typically freeze or not load up at all. If it were RAM, a whole variety of things can happen. The most common is failure to load up programs & files, while others can be anything from video failure, distorted graphics, and random crashes."

I've asked a couple of folks who sell arcades on FB how much they will charge me to rewire the 4 player control panel for a ipac 4 and usb out to use with a pi/pc. No answers as of yet.

I checked everything that is plugged in and so far everything looks done correctly but frankly I don't know what I'm looking at.

I need to do research on the beep codes advice from earlier. I just got home.

I could buy a cheap core2duo cpu and test to see if it boots if is not too expensive.

According to Retro Active Arcade, the 3xxx in one uses a quad core as per this vid at 3:40

"

 

Edit:

 

I may be onto something lol.

Each control goes out to a control power harness. Is there such a thing like a control power harness to usb?

power harness.png

power harness cp.png

Edited by Valdy
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Posted (edited)

Yes its not much cost for you to swap the 775 mATX motherboard, CPU, ram all out at once, and see if it then fires up. At least in my country, I could easily find this sort of platform, that era of computing is essentially cheap e-waste currently.

It looks complicated but its just two types of boards integrated together, with a OS image (custom mame loader shell) setup to work with it .

there are arcade images out there if the SSD does turn out to be dead (but if it was only a dead SSD then you would get some display output, your ssd is probably ok)

 

1 hour ago, Valdy said:

Is there such a thing like a control power harness to usb?

Yes of course, you can get a USB Encoder, something like the iPAC 4 ( https://www.ebay.com/itm/254210580437 )

 

I would love to get a copy of the 3500-in-1 SSD image if you ever decide to make a backup from that SSD.

If you try resurrecting it in its current form, I know from experience that while the software customization has a tough learning curve, the hardware isn't too daunting once you know what each bit is doing and how it all meshes together.  

 

there used to be more resources for games family tech online @MaNiAc-Uk  had a forum dedicated to it, but it's long gone now. and @Jed has some experience with these platforms too.

 
Edited by qwertylesh
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8 minutes ago, qwertylesh said:

Yes its not much cost for you to swap the 775 mATX motherboard, CPU, ram all out at once, and see if it then fires up. At least in my country, I could easily find this sort of platform, that era of computing is essentially cheap e-waste currently.

It looks complicated but its just two types of boards integrated together, with a OS image (custom mame loader shell) setup to work with it .

there are arcade images out there if the SSD does turn out to be dead (but if it was only a dead SSD then you would get some display output, your ssd is probably ok)

 

Yes of course, you can get a USB Encoder, something like the iPAC 4 ( https://www.ebay.com/itm/254210580437 )

 

I would love to get a copy of the 3500-in-1 SSD image if you ever decide to make a backup from that SSD.

If you try resurrecting it in its current form, I know from experience that while the software customization has a tough learning curve, the hardware isn't too daunting once you know what each bit is doing and how it all meshes together.  

 

there used to be more resources for games family tech online @MaNiAc-Uk  had a forum dedicated to it, but it's long gone now. and @Jed has some experience with these platforms too.

 

oh i meant, just shoving that blocky harness thing on to another thing that would have a usb on its end lol.

I have no clue what will come out if i pull any cable out of that block harness.

i ordered a duo2quad for15  bucks from ebay. should be here next monday. I will take it appart and change the cpu and try.

After taking it out, i can make a copy of the image. 

I'm trying to search for a video that shows someone opening a jamma board just so i know what screws to work with.

it looks like i just unscrew it from the wall and then carefully unscrew the corners and unplug things carefully. 

i will take pictures to remember where everything goes. I will update what happens after i change the cpu. 

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Yeah, I've taken mine a part before, you just unscrew the top columns and carefully unplug everything from that top board to access the underside. I believe each of the connectors are one way only, but to be sure its a good idea to take photos and memorize the direction of any of the connectors you unplug so it can be put back the same way.

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19 hours ago, qwertylesh said:

Yeah, I've taken mine a part before, you just unscrew the top columns and carefully unplug everything from that top board to access the underside. I believe each of the connectors are one way only, but to be sure its a good idea to take photos and memorize the direction of any of the connectors you unplug so it can be put back the same way.

alright.

I unscrewd the ssd from the jamma board. It wasnt glued.

I plugged it onto another pc and was able to see the content. 

I'm making it a rar now and later will figure out how to make it a torrent.

20220707_210331.jpg

another tech from retro active arcade said that the cpu was probably not the cause and that it was the power.

I had already checked a 850 psu and didn't notice any difference. 

Now I see that another of my pc's was able to recognize the ssd and asign a new letter and that's how I managed to see what was inside.

Now that the SSD is completely removed from the jamma board, the response is exactly the same so I think it may actually be a power issue.

I also think my plan b is now a j pac for p layer 1 and 2 and i pac 2 for player's 3 and 4.

On thing I'm curious about is, what happens if I pull the cables on this guy below? is it pealed? is it a plug in?

image.png.218d088ee2d23a84455ddcf8d48aea17.png

 

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