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Going To Try Running The Black Pyramid On a Battery Inverter, What Could Possibly Go Wrong?


Autosteve
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I've been running this machine only on a generator for the last 3 years and had no problems so why not try an inverter running off batteries?

I'm thinking maybe the inverter soft start feature might cause issues but then again, maybe not.

The inverter isn't grounded but neither is the generator, should they be?.

Inverter is only going to output 220vAC. Should I high tap the transformer?.

Inverter is a modified sine wave type. Is that going to be a problem?.

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How many watts is the inverter rated for ?

compared to how many watts the Pin draws ?

you may need to use a watt meter to check the draw from the pin it should record the initial rush on boot then settle 

if its to much for the inverter you could look at installing a super cap on the 12v side of the inverter to boost the initial inrush 

 

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I have 1000, 1600 and 2000 watt inverters I could use.

The Bally diagram only has 120 volt wiring that features a 3amp SB fuse as the inline fuse which makes it a little hard to say exactly what the inrush wattage would be but being 3amp @120 volts would indicate the machine only needs 360watts once the inrush has pasted and the machine is running.

Other than that I have no idea exactly how many watts the inverter would need to be

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Posted (edited)

Might be a case of a handful of fast blow fuses and go one amp higher till it doesn't blow on startup to find out exactly how many watts is required for the inrush. Just not sure how the softstart feature on the inverters will handle that inrush current though.

Edited by Autosteve
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Posted (edited)

I dont think you will blow anything up. If the inverter cannot handle it , it will usually just shut down. I play pinball all of the time using an inverter 2000w.  sometimes several machines are on without probs. EM, s included

You really should earth everything. Cause you do not want to be the path to earth if something goes wrong.

The inverter & controller would have an earth terminal I would think

Edited by kayakkingoz
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Posted (edited)

Used to run one of our storage sheds on a small 3000watt (6k peak) inverter, it never had any issues running any EM or early solid state pinballs (never tried anything newer on it).  Though on that system I only ever tried one machine at a time, it never anything else running on it as its purpose was just to test machines to see if they were a good candidate for fixing up and working on. So just watch you might overload if you have other things on the inverter at the same time (bar fridge, lights, etc)

Edited by Brk_oth
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Thanks guys. That gives me conference nothing is likely to fail.

Idea is to use the generator less but still have the pinball going for a couple of hours use when the generator isn't going.😏

When the generator is going, I'll run the pinball off that power but at the same time plug in my 30amp battery charger and it can fully recharge the battery bank for the pinball. When the generator is turned off, swap the pinball over to run off the inverter that gets it's power from the battery bank. A manual version of a pinball UPS.😄

I'll hook up a solar panel array that also charges that battery bank during the day via a solar regulator of coarse.

Gotta be better than running the petrol generator solely to play pinball for a couple of hours like is the case ATM.

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2 hours ago, Gemini2544 said:

You would be better using a Pure sine Inverter IMO, I think the modified sine will be too glitchy for the MPU.

I think pure sine wave generated AC would be nicer but I'm thinking the pinball electrics should handle the modified wave AC with it's 50-60Htz transformer but.....

I'm no expert when it comes to the AC side but have a better understanding when it comes to the DC side and that is why I asked if anyone saw any reason why this wouldn't work.

The potential problems I saw were regarding the MPU clocking as you pointed out but being a Bally SS also the high voltage stepup voltage required for the plasma displays and the halfwave DC for the coils and switched lights being controlled by SCRs that rely on the zero crossing to turn off.

I thought the SCRs will still turn off if the AC wave is not perfectly precise and wouldn't be detectable. I now this may not be 100% true.

I've been using this pin solely on generator power for a couple of years now and I doubt it has Pure sign wave generated AC coming from it to tell you the truth but what I have noticed is while the coils seem to work perfectly, (if the AC wave was out by milliseconds, I doubt you the player could detect the coils being on a millisecond to long or short), the switched bulbs being changed to LEDs occasionally can flicker for the first game and you can detect that.

The interesting thing here is it only effects some of the LED bulbs driven by the Bally Auxiliary Lamp Driver Board.

All the SCRs on the light boards including the effected Auxiliary Lamp driver Board have the "resistor loading mod" done on them to prevent the LED flicker Bally lighting boards require so I ruled that out especially since I tried multiple resistor values on these particular lamps drives but this flickering does return for that first game occassionally 

Ways to stop this I have found is reboot the pinball, or play the ball out and the next ball it comes right or let the machine sit on ball 1 player one for a couple of minutes. All 3 methods do fix the problem.

It only ever occurs on the initial bootup when the machine has sat for extended periods of time but this glitch I would possibly think could be related to the sin wave of the AC.

The MPU clock pulse doesn't seem to have any problems I have found but then again it might be the actual reason causing this other known problem and is caused when the MPU clock, (which is a chip generated clock pulse), isn't perfectly in sink with that halfway generated to switch the Lamps.

I really don't know. I suppose this could only be a problem if the battery keeps the chip generated clock pulse alive and therefore the clock pulses may not align correctly.

What I do think is if the pinball MPU used a "starburst clock pulse", like used in many other mains electrical/ electronic devices, I would be expecting massive problems as I believe a starburst chip calculates the pulse by dividing the mains frequency itself.

All, theory though as I've had little to do with this part of electronics and that is why I asked.

 

   

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I would never run a pinnie on a generator. I've had generators that were supposed to be "pure sine wave" end up frying sensitive electronics, so since then I only ever use power tools on generators. Given that you already run the pinnie on a gen then it should be fine on a battery/inverter which is what I've used.

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8 hours ago, Brk_oth said:

I would never run a pinnie on a generator. I've had generators that were supposed to be "pure sine wave" end up frying sensitive electronics, so since then I only ever use power tools on generators. Given that you already run the pinnie on a gen then it should be fine on a battery/inverter which is what I've used.

I've learnt not to alter the load while something sensitive is switched on using the generator and I guess the same could be said about battery inverters. The generator defiantly bogs down when the 1000watt microwave starts up and that will upset the AC wave I would imagine.

I have also blown some shit up over the years. 3 Ryodi One battery chargers, (3 out of 10), and a 240-18vDC power supply.

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