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Has current pricing affected you?


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Having a chat with a mate yesterday. We have talked at length over the last 12 years as to when the bubble will burst and what would cause it. 

So we had a GFC that didn’t burst it! 

We had a recession in there somewhere that didn’t burst it!!

And now a global pandemic that really should have but actually increased prices by as much as 40-50% on some titles. We decided it’s a waste of time talking about this anymore. The bubble is made of steel not soap like we thought. Lol !!!

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9 hours ago, JustAnotherRat said:

I went halves with my sister to buy a Who Dunnit? just over a year ago, then a few months ago we went halves in a World Cup Soccer 94. I have a few weeks ago purchased a Fish Tales.

These I consider to be my first 3 machines although I did have a Duotron for a short while. I bought it, didn't really enjoy it and moved it on quite quickly.

Did I overpay due to the current pricing? Probably. I felt the fairest price was Who Dunnit? I feel as though I have over paid for the other two but don't care as anyone who knows me (from the pinball world) knows that these two were grail pins for me. My wife told me she'd buy me a pinball machine for my 40th birthday after I had been wanting one for years and I didn't get it as pinball prices were already climbing and we couldn't afford it. The entire time I've watched pinball pricing which would be around 20 years, they have gone up. The prices people ask are only stupid if people don't pay them. As a kid I dreamed of being able to have an arcade machine at home like they did in the TV show Silver Spoons, it was a crazy concept at the time but a reality for me now.

 

Funny history with your 3 pins, Who Dunnit, Fish Tales and World cup Soccer 94....Each one of them had a drama when they were either made or sold.

Fish Tales...... was the first pinball LAI sold after importing where the operator could pay it off rather than cash up front. Rumour has it they had 3 containers of them and they weren't moving because the market for Fish Tales was saturated. Very popular machine that earnt very well. Every operator had at least one. We had about 8 state wise.That fish on the top had nearly the impact on earnings as the Addams' hand.

World Cup Soccer 94......was supposed to be made in a supa pin size but was redesigned late in production back into a normal cab. I think it would have done quite well as a supa cab because it has a lot going on mech wise and is a little cramped but that is my opinion. It was always regarded as a bad omen dating a pinball in it's title. Supposed to shorten it's earning life carrying a date in machine's name.

Who Dunnit....Another one LAI had trouble moving. Supposedly to different...Probably why I liked it but they had trouble moving them. Again, rumour has it they dropped the price around $2000 NIB to move them.

I think your got yourself 3 pearlers. The first two earned great money, not so much Who Dunnit but each game is different and all have a different appeal.

Edited by Autosteve
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12 hours ago, JOKERPOKER said:

Having a chat with a mate yesterday. We have talked at length over the last 12 years as to when the bubble will burst and what would cause it. 

So we had a GFC that didn’t burst it! 

We had a recession in there somewhere that didn’t burst it!!

And now a global pandemic that really should have but actually increased prices by as much as 40-50% on some titles. We decided it’s a waste of time talking about this anymore. The bubble is made of steel not soap like we thought. Lol !!!

I tend to agree re the price bubble burst that never seems to come, but i think once international travel opens up we will see a decline, especially on those super expensive machines. Not convinced that the newer mucky muck buyers will hold the same longevity of interest once all the normal life distractions return, without conditions. Even through the current era, ive never really felt ive over paid for a machine tbh. Ive certainly never lost money on one. At the end of the day if that is the end result, then im not too worried

 

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23 minutes ago, Gemini2544 said:

It will be interesting when these Covid buyers decide to sell up & will be expecting more than what they paid. Will they get burned or make a profit?.

Not sure what will happen. The way I look at it, if they sell cheap, then I can grab some other titles. If the prices stay high, I'm not likely to get more but I keep the value of what I have.

 

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13 hours ago, wiredoug said:

most of the covid buyers i know now have since bought a second or third game. I dont see it crashing. At worst they will do what all the small owners do when the novelty wears off, leave them sitting in the corner for years.

Yep, there will be no crash, thats for sure, but we might see prices drop due to the hyper competitive buying market falling away as tge novelty wears off, as you put it.

 

In saying all that.... with NIB companies putting their rates up, the insane prices we saw in the pinball museums recent auction over in the states + the threat of shipping container prices quadrupling due to the shortages -there is a ton of reasons to also see it get worse

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Yeah I still think there's a element of unsustainablity in our little market, perhaps not so much in the massive breadth and potential of the US market -but then again they haven't had such a ridiculous wholesale blind inflation scenario affecting the whole market as badly as we have. I can still see plenty room for scenarios as well where people have pressures to not have a $15k toy sitting in the corner when their families start wanting to go on vacations. Is it going to be so popular now to find they've spent money on a pinball they're not really into after lockdown since the world has opened up. Then I do contemplate what happens generally when all of the stimulus efforts have worn off and how the economy will be by say mid next year. I can also see for the noobs who've come in and get bored, machines over time popping up that are in poor condition due to lack of maintenance and just sitting around. 

That pinball museum in stuff was classic case of exposing pinball to a whole fresh population of people with NFI and no concept of the market or general concern for values. It's what we see here with all the idiots who get completely sucked in by Lloyd's Auctions bs. 

Edited by OurManinOz
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On 21/10/2021 at 9:48 AM, Gemini2544 said:

It will be interesting when these Covid buyers decide to sell up & will be expecting more than what they paid. Will they get burned or make a profit?.

But will they sell? I know numerous people that have dropped between 150K to over 300K and they don’t plan on selling any games. If you have that sort of disposable income then some of these games may not see light of day again until the family moves them in after they are gone. There are quite a few that I have sold game to that are in for the long haul because they don’t need to trade their way up like a lot of us have over the years. They can just buy. Good luck to them by the way if you’ve got it you’ve probably worked hard for it. I’m not sure a loss on resale will be a big issue. If they think they will take a huge hit they probably will wait for the next boom lol. 

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14 hours ago, JOKERPOKER said:

But will they sell? I know numerous people that have dropped between 150K to over 300K and they don’t plan on selling any games. If you have that sort of disposable income then some of these games may not see light of day again until the family moves them in after they are gone. There are quite a few that I have sold game to that are in for the long haul because they don’t need to trade their way up like a lot of us have over the years. They can just buy. Good luck to them by the way if you’ve got it you’ve probably worked hard for it. I’m not sure a loss on resale will be a big issue. If they think they will take a huge hit they probably will wait for the next boom lol. 

Yeah I reckon it depends quite a lot on the demographic. I came across just such a person who's kept in touch with me since wanting to buy my DP LE. He came into pinball in June, to which I had a laugh and pointed out he was yet another one of the Lockdown come lately pinball buyers. He definitely is one who's in the new found hobby category and definitely sounds like he's not worried to spend up to very quickly build a collection up and as he demonstrated in talking to me, pay overs. I said to him, mate it totally freaks me out when I contemplate what it would cost to repurchase just half of what I've got right now😱. I think there's a sub category of people though who were lockdown bored and maybe had holiday money sat aside, or decided to blow some stimulus money, who may start to find they can no longer justify the one machine they paid a stack for in Covid. That scenario would have to account for a fair few purchases over this time surely. The scenario of people of who have the spare funds to drop big $$ to buy up a bunch of titles surely can't represent that much of the population here in Aus. Over in the US with their population, for sure, just need a percentage more people coming into pinball and suddenly things are going nuts.

Edited by OurManinOz
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I'd lost out on almost every machine sale i've ever done except for 2. This was my par for the course and was what I expected to a degree when I came into the hobby.

For various reasons I'm seriously considering downsizing the majority of my machines and only keeping a select couple.

 

I get sent pics of what people are "asking" for on facebook etc and I just cant believe what I'm seeing. Even if they're going to 75-80% of that asking price they're still so god damn high.
Just don't know if I could look someone in the eye asking for that sort of pricing if I advertised them here. Even worse when then I just see it later sell for another few grand.

I then think its money going to my family so I really should try and get what I can get. Still doesn't make me fell any better about the entire situation.

I did do an experiment with one machine to see what sort of offers I could get and they weren't nearly what everyone claimed it could go for.

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I hear you there. I even lost money offloading my Cactus Canyon in 2010. Had to even discount my 3 month old Dialed In as I recall.

Took my stance against 'Pinflation' when I recently sold DP LE. I just asked for what it owed me with the add-ons.

Edited by OurManinOz
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  • 2 weeks later...

Interestingly last couple of days I'm noticing some not all that bad pricing pop up on some of the FB groups. Saw a SW LE at a very sane $15.5K with a stack of mods today for example. Funny we're a few days since last of Lockdown ended and a day since Intl travel opened up. Of course it's too early to say there's any connection, but it will interesting to keep on eye on how things track.

Edited by OurManinOz
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On 02/11/2021 at 10:23 AM, OurManinOz said:

Interestingly last couple of days I'm noticing some not all that bad pricing pop up on some of the FB groups. Saw a SW LE at a very sane $15.5K with a stack of mods today for example. Funny we're a few days since last of Lockdown ended and a day since Intl travel opened up. Of course it's too early to say there's any connection, but it will interesting to keep on eye on how things track.

CCRLE has been priced at $17K + delivery. I believe it was sold out straight away. This shows there is still plenty of demand. Until supply catches up to demand or demand drops off and there is plenty of supply again, the price will remain up. The hobby in Australia is bigger than people realize. With so many games coming into Australia every month I thought there would be a healthy used market.  This is not the case. Time will tell.

 

COVID restrictions have put Pinball machines into people homes that would have never considered a machine before that. If you go off USA they have been out of lockdown for over 6 months and pinball demand has risen.

 

Moral of the story is keep it simple. Supply and demand will determine price.  Are we going to keep buying, I do not know!

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Yes, a good read and so many comments I agree with.  For me, I am in quite a unique position.  I have 4 beautifully restored machines that I can enjoy that I don't own.  One of my best mates owns them but he just doesn't have the space or the knowledge to repair any faults or issues that arise.  

Only 6 years in the hobby, I have owned 13 machines.  I guess I got bored easily and just moved them on.  The last one I sold was a few months back and one I intended to keep for much longer.  I guess the price people were telling me it was worth just did it for me.  I did feel a bit guilty as 'Koops' stated in his post, but I thought, if I was selling my house I'd want the best price I could get as my family will benefit.  So this way of thinking made me feel more comfortable at least.  I feel very lucky to have owned and enjoyed playing some great machines and be financially ahead too. 

For me, I just don't have the space for many more.  Maybe one more NIB if a title is released I must have, but until then, I'm happy with the SS, T2, JD & STTNG - all playing perfectly and looking mint with fully restored cabs that I did myself.  If my mate buys a bigger house or makes the room, they may go, but I have a feeling I'll have them for many more years to come.

Besides, I actually get more enjoyment from cab restorations than playing.  I completely agree with 'RaoulJuke' as playing pinball with my mates in the arcades was awesome and such a highlight back in the day.  Playing by myself at home is not the same.  I do get enjoyment when non pinball people attend and play though, as I often join in and try and show them how it's done, sometimes failing dismally though.

Have current pricing affected me?  Not really.  If I title gets released I really want, I'll grab it.  Space affects me much more.  If I had more of it, I'd own more machines.  I still believe it's all about 'supply and demand' like others have stated.  This could change but I can't see it happening for 10-20 years when many pin heads are over 70 (like I will be) and start selling off their collections.  But, will they all flood the market at once?.......unlikely.  Would be nice to have a crystal ball......... 

There are so many new buyers now.  Example: Just this arvo, one of my non-pinball mates calls me and asks if I had a pinball machine for sale, as he has a cashed up client that wants to own a pinball machine ASAP.  He has no idea about them but wants one.  Most likely played when he was younger or been inspired by some recent TV media story or publication on pins.  I advised to buy a NIB Stern Pro as this will be the cheapest, most reliable as generally trouble free for a while with warranty, etc.  If he likes it, he can then buy more expensive titles and models, etc.  Maybe even learn about them and buy a much older one he can repair himself down the track.

Good thread Scott and enjoy reading the opinions and knowledge of others.                  

 

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On 05/11/2021 at 1:33 PM, pinballaddicted said:

CCRLE has been priced at $17K + delivery. I believe it was sold out straight away. This shows there is still plenty of demand. Until supply catches up to demand or demand drops off and there is plenty of supply again, the price will remain up. The hobby in Australia is bigger than people realize. With so many games coming into Australia every month I thought there would be a healthy used market.  This is not the case. Time will tell.

 

COVID restrictions have put Pinball machines into people homes that would have never considered a machine before that. If you go off USA they have been out of lockdown for over 6 months and pinball demand has risen.

 

Moral of the story is keep it simple. Supply and demand will determine price.  Are we going to keep buying, I do not know!

 

CCRLE had such massive FOMO surrounding it. Amazing the way it's caught peoples imagination just because it was originally an LE and had a mystique attached to it as the last of 90's style WMS pins. In reality though it's a pretty middle of the road game, regardless of new code, toppers, etc. Of course that didn't stop it selling out. 

Totally agree about the come lately covid market. Although I always look at the massive multiplier effect of the US market, it only really takes a few percent of newcomers to really push the market. Definitely seeing it in desirable titles over there. Will be interesting to track how it goes over there longer term. I feel our market may bend more as more of these people who've came in with a lockdown boredom mentality and bought up pins willy nilly start to feel the pull of other things again as everything opens back up. In both cases here and US, it will be interesting to observe the market across the next 12 months.

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On 20/10/2021 at 9:30 PM, RaoulJuke said:

I tend to agree re the price bubble burst that never seems to come, but i think once international travel opens up we will see a decline, especially on those super expensive machines. Not convinced that the newer mucky muck buyers will hold the same longevity of interest once all the normal life distractions return, without conditions. Even through the current era, ive never really felt ive over paid for a machine tbh. Ive certainly never lost money on one. At the end of the day if that is the end result, then im not too worried

 

Fyi, i was so wrong. The amount of orders we are getting through Bills BAV is ridiculous

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3 hours ago, OurManinOz said:

 

CCRLE had such massive FOMO surrounding it. Amazing the way it's caught peoples imagination just because it was originally an LE and had a mystique attached to it as the last of 90's style WMS pins. In reality though it's a pretty middle of the road game, regardless of new code, toppers, etc. Of course that didn't stop it selling out. 

Totally agree about the come lately covid market. Although I always look at the massive multiplier effect of the US market, it only really takes a few percent of newcomers to really push the market. Definitely seeing it in desirable titles over there. Will be interesting to track how it goes over there longer term. I feel our market may bend more as more of these people who've came in with a lockdown boredom mentality and bought up pins willy nilly start to feel the pull of other things again as everything opens back up. In both cases here and US, it will be interesting to observe the market across the next 12 months.

The thing is the 'new' collector tends to have an endless well of money & can afford to have multiple obsessions. I dont think its going to stop anytime soon.

 

On CCRLE, i think it looks pretty exceptional. I am pretty vocal on my opinion tgat toppers are an overrated wank, but they actually found a pretty awesome way to make it actually fun & interesting  & not just a big plastic looking dildo on the headbox. 

As i said before, the pricing hasnt hurt my passion at all, but admittedly, its only because i have a largeish collection & accepted quickly i need to sell for what it will cost to replace & not care about the evil glares it could bring with ut. Dont hate the playa, hate the game - as the  saying goes.

In saying that i do hope those that it is affecting can find a happy place to get back involved. Its not good to see the older guts who kept these things alive feeling left out of the hobby now, thats shitty

 

Edited by RaoulJuke
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1 hour ago, RaoulJuke said:

On CCRLE, i think it looks pretty exceptional. I am pretty vocal on my opinion tgat toppers are an overrated wank, but they actually found a pretty awesome way to make it actually fun & interesting  & not just a big plastic looking dildo on the headbox. 

Completely agree.  I reckon the CCR looks real nice, especially the LE.  I have only been lucky enough to play one CC a few years ago and I just loved it.  At least with the remakes, they are more affordable than trying to even find an original, let alone the huge price tag attached to it.    

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15 hours ago, RaoulJuke said:

The thing is the 'new' collector tends to have an endless well of money & can afford to have multiple obsessions. I dont think its going to stop anytime soon.

 

On CCRLE, i think it looks pretty exceptional. I am pretty vocal on my opinion tgat toppers are an overrated wank, but they actually found a pretty awesome way to make it actually fun & interesting  & not just a big plastic looking dildo on the headbox. 

As i said before, the pricing hasnt hurt my passion at all, but admittedly, its only because i have a largeish collection & accepted quickly i need to sell for what it will cost to replace & not care about the evil glares it could bring with ut. Dont hate the playa, hate the game - as the  saying goes.

In saying that i do hope those that it is affecting can find a happy place to get back involved. Its not good to see the older guts who kept these things alive feeling left out of the hobby now, thats shitty

 

 

Yeah I get this cashed up new collector scenario, especially in the US. I would only question how many there really are here that have delved or want to delve into pinball. I know quite a few people who have plenty to spend but gravitate much more towards cars say. They just wouldn't care enough to buy pins or care for them at those values and these guys think nothing of buying Lambos or ordering a Maserati MC20 say. One guy I know has 2 80's and 1 50's pin in his office but they are really just decorations like the bikes he has on display there as well (HD, Ducati, and 5 Vespas).  I myself have always a lot $$ in cars, plus other hobbies like Home Theater(s). I totally enjoyed pinball where it started off when I got into and tolerate the current NIB prices. But at some of the sillier prices we've been seeing, I'm definitely finding it a turn off. If I didn't already have a very decent collection built over 20+ years, I'd definitely not have the desire to pay up the money such people are now. I'd rather upgrade my Canam X3 to the latest model say or look forward new HT projector models coming out from JVC.

I know I'm definitely not back in for another CC in the form of CCRLE. I sit with what Kaneda said on his last podcast on it as a title of that era. I was much happier to swap out my reasonably nice MM for MMR and revisit AFMR LE after regretfully selling my NIB AFM many years ago.

Edited by OurManinOz
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On 06/11/2021 at 9:50 AM, Gemini2544 said:

Seeing two POTC selling recently for 30K has me completely befuddled.

I'd tip 30 isn't the ceiling either just quietly. I had TONS of interest after the fact that were trying to buy it for more after I'd taken a deposit.

There are still some other buyers that would take a 30k pirates.

I don't quite get the mentality of some buyers though.

 

"will you take 8?"

"lol no, I put the price against the listing that i'd accept otherwise I'll just keep it."

*accepts a later offer at listed price*

"wait its now sold?"

Pikachu Face GIFs | Tenor

Edited by Koops
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2 hours ago, Koops said:

I'd tip 30 isn't the ceiling either just quietly. I had TONS of interest after the fact that were trying to buy it for more after I'd taken a deposit.

There are still some other buyers that would take a 30k pirates.

I don't quite get the mentality of some buyers though.

 

"will you take 8?"

"lol no, I put the price against the listing that i'd accept otherwise I'll just keep it."

*accepts a later offer at listed price*

"wait its now sold?"

Pikachu Face GIFs | Tenor

Inquiring minds need to know... what was the highest offer you got?

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