LAST FLIGHT OF RED BARON

[CandyLand]

16 minutes ago, needlebat said:

That was certainly interesting.

A little deep I know, But fascinating...That is some hard core innovation I never thought I would see in my lifetime...But we are going to make it work, Hell or high water.

[needlebat]

29 minutes ago, CandyLand said:

A little deep I know, But fascinating...That is some hard core innovation I never thought I would see in my lifetime...But we are going to make it work, Hell or high water.

I had a clock with an EL face 4 decades ago 🙂

[CandyLand]

1 hour ago, needlebat said:

I had a clock with an EL face 4 decades ago 🙂

Jennifer trys to laugh but gets sad...I can only think of the radium girls, And workplace hazzards of the era.

 

 

 

Edited March 1, 2023 by CandyLand

[needlebat]

4 hours ago, CandyLand said:

I can only think of the radium girls, And workplace hazzards of the era.

When people talk about the good old days, it's handy to look at the terrible things we don't do now.

[CandyLand]

It's only bad if misunderstood or misused I supose...Madam Currie passed in 1934 which actually makes her a victim of her own research, But prior to the understanding I believe the luminescent paint was first used somewhere around 1910 (I think, dont quote me) making that a 25 year window of consequence... But, even today it is quite impressive what they did, that was cutting edge glow in the dark awesomeness, From back in the day...But again, it is a sad story born mostly from misused labor procurement, as the lead aprons were in use by the handlers, But the girls nothing, They were told it was safe, in fact it was a job requirement to actually tip the brush, a method of wetting the tip by licking it and consequently they would literally glow in the dark after their shift...Hence the name "Ghost girls".

Edited March 1, 2023 by CandyLand

[CandyLand]

In comparison 17 layers of Layers of Lumilor and associated topcoats probably also contain something quite nasty although not radioactive, That dielectric alone is aparently a liquid atomized capacitor So as a disclaimer here, Wear your PPE if you plan to try this guys...I notice they actually have a school/training class to spray it, and would definitely be a good way to become an authorized certified applicator.

 

 

Edited March 2, 2023 by CandyLand

[CandyLand]

I got to just shake my head at the metric system, It gets close then just falls flat on it's face...Here he is scribing a piece of 1/2" square stock, and comes up with a 12.7mm conversion, (6.3mm center)...Granted that's close, but splitting  a .7 could be considered a sloppy method of measure depending on what it is you are working on.

 

Edited March 12, 2023 by CandyLand

[CandyLand]

It should be noted, that could be broken down in 1/32" or even 1/64" rather that a .3 of a mm, We don't actually need that level of accountability however, as we are not building a real plane here, but it is nice to know where on the scale things fall before you just start ramming a bit through your workpieces...Moving forward, we are going to use the wiggles on a stepped pully drill press (nothing fancy), to align the corner brackets to reciever plates.

Edited March 12, 2023 by CandyLand

[CandyLand]

I obviously do not understand the metric system for squat, and not saying it just sucks...But we do need to line up 2 holes on each bracket 3 holes deep with accuracy...Just saying off a part of a millimeter here and there could add up fast as  unacceptable sloppy workmanship.

[furballx]

This is a Karate Kid moment.......

 

You use metric system yes.....OK

You use metric system no......OK

You use metric system think-so........SQUISH justa like grape.

 

Stop trying to convert metric to imperial and expecting it to match it up.  

(yes, I said imperial, as in the system of measurement introduced by the English when they colonised the US)

Metric is the simplest possible form of measurement, base 10 (we all have that many fingers and toes....hopefully).  You want to increase precision, go to an additional decimal place with your measurement.  Your monetary system is base 10, as is ours, how is measurement any different?

[prktkljokr]

Quite simple really 

 

[Autosteve]

I give you some tips using the metric system.

Start using a metric only tap measure.

Don't use centimeters, (10mm) at all. Only mm and meters when you have to. As my engineer boss used to say, "centimeters are a dressmakers size".

Most engineering using metric usually sticks with just mm as it is less confusing but still very precise. Here is an example...

You measure and the size is 2445.5mm

You convert that to meters and the size becomes 2.445.5 meters......Can't be written in that format and could only be written as 2.445 meters/ 1/2mm......Again, a stupid way of writing the size

Better to leave the size as mm and you end up with 2445.5mm

Even smaller sizes can continue into the 100ths of mm and further

[CandyLand]

Whoa slow down guys, You got to think of it from my side, you try just going Imperial like it is no big deal...The video helps but is incredibly confusing, Trying to do conversions is my downfall I can now see that, But as a designer that works calculations out of her head that creates a perfect storm of insanity, trying to subtract thousand place MM figures on the in your head is an ugly prospect...I did manage to get liquid measure down in terms of small quantities (ML)such as resins and paint but just stall out at the liter 

The foot is kinda like the same thing, except it is based on 12 inches, (10+2) and 13 as a bakers dozen (a little extra)...I will get this it will take some time however and certainly not easy but in the end I honestly believe it will give me a more universal understanding of design, Just please don't think I am here to shame the metric system, as one is better than the other.

Edited March 13, 2023 by CandyLand

[CandyLand]

This is off topic and won't be updated, but for you guys that missed the other insanity across Jenns bench...Something you dont see everyday, A Galaxy playfield getting an art reduction and restoration .. . VOILA, presto, chango... Seriously not recommended unless you are half crazy, But it did turn out nice.

Edited March 17, 2023 by CandyLand

[CandyLand]

That is actually extremely tricky to do, You can't saturate the wood or it will warp as it dries, (or delaminate) but need to neutralize it so the new art doesn't lift...There is a fine line of what is acceptable, The secret is chicken lights (incubator uv) it cooks out the chemicals from the inside out, It was already dry when I took that pic...We will get back on R/B when I get caught up a little.

Edited March 18, 2023 by CandyLand

[needlebat]

On 13/03/2023 at 9:43 PM, CandyLand said:

Whoa slow down guys, You got to think of it from my side, you try just going Imperial like it is no big deal...The video helps but is incredibly confusing, Trying to do conversions is my downfall I can now see that, But as a designer that works calculations out of her head that creates a perfect storm of insanity, trying to subtract thousand place MM figures on the in your head is an ugly prospect...I did manage to get liquid measure down in terms of small quantities (ML)such as resins and paint but just stall out at the liter 

The foot is kinda like the same thing, except it is based on 12 inches, (10+2) and 13 as a bakers dozen (a little extra)...I will get this it will take some time however and certainly not easy but in the end I honestly believe it will give me a more universal understanding of design, Just please don't think I am here to shame the metric system, as one is better than the other.

Doing everything in milliliters and milometers is great advice, no conversions required. I was at school when the metric system was introduced, I remember putting stickers on the speedo in the car 🙂 The International System of Units (SI) (or metric) system is super-easy once you stop trying to work out what things are in inches as a sanity check.  We still have plenty of weirdness left over from imperial systems - odd shaft sizes in routers (6.35mm) because they used to be 1/4", Weird PCB spacing, that sort of stuff.

 

[Autosteve]

My last year in school doing the school certificate was the first year metric was introduced and as a result the test was both metric and imperial.

Plenty of questions regarding feet, yards, chains, furlongs and miles but an equal amount of questions regarding mm, centimeters, meters and kilometers.

I think the most confusing thing about imperial and fractions in general is the reducing to a common denominator.

A good example would be a size like 17/64th and 18/64ths. If the sizes remained the same you can easily see        18/64ths is larger however once you reduce 18/64ths to it's lowest common denominator....9/32nd....as you can see it becomes clear as mud.

[CandyLand]

It's not easy to learn and use both, I will give it that, I really thought it would be easier given most everyone usually says metric is easy...The lowest common denomination is something they generally would teach you in school just so you know how it is done, but in practice it is rarely ever used, normally it is dependent on the amount of accuracy you are after that would determine the fraction of measure you would use...That is to say rather than add multiples together like in the metric system (2300mm example) it would just be broken down to the nearest foot,inch, and consequently the fraction as 7' 6.5"...My biggest problem at the moment is all my equipment is built with a total disregard to the metric system... everything...The drill press, table saw, jointer all in imperial and leaves me trying to do conversions in my head...On less than critical I am getting closer but again it is not convenient as it doesn't break down to a 1/1 and then the fractions do come into play...An example of this would be 1/4" is almost 6mm, really close, but not.

Edited March 20, 2023 by CandyLand

[needlebat]

42 minutes ago, CandyLand said:

It's not easy to learn and use both, I will give it that, I really thought it would be easier given most everyone usually says metric is easy...The lowest common denomination is something they generally would teach you in school just so you know how it is done, but in practice it is rarely ever used, normally it is dependent on the amount of accuracy you are after that would determine the fraction of measure you would use...That is to say rather than add multiples together like in the metric system (2300mm example) it would just be broken down to the nearest foot,inch, and consequently the fraction as 7' 6.5"...My biggest problem at the moment is all my equipment is built with a total disregard to the metric system... everything...The drill press, table saw, jointer all in imperial and leaves me trying to do conversions in my head...On less than critical I am getting closer but again it is not convenient as it doesn't break down to a 1/1 and then the fractions do come into play...An example of this would be 1/4" is almost 6mm, really close, but not.

I have metric and imperial tools, needed to fix the old machines. I don't think anybody bothers to convert machines to metric 🙂 The ones I have from Europe often have a smattering of metric bits in there, from the power conversion.

[CandyLand]

9 hours ago, needlebat said:

I have metric and imperial tools, needed to fix the old machines. I don't think anybody bothers to convert machines to metric 🙂 The ones I have from Europe often have a smattering of metric bits in there, from the power conversion.

Well no probably not, designing a machine completely in metric is not really my goal here, although I have seen some mame cabs done that way...I am more about trying to be able to discuss build techniques across both platforms without shoving Imperial down anyone's throat...Say you do a build of a control panel in mm, I can't learn from that without recalculation or even a very basic understanding of size, and consequently the other way around If I build something in inches it doesn't fit your designs or ideas, Basically I don't believe one is better than the other, they are just different, and a good builder would know and use both...Going forward I have been practicing in less critical measures as conversions, (Yes I can't get away from that) and have been getting pretty close, not perfect mind you, but close enough for a comparative understanding on less than critical.

I had to look up a "furlong" that's not something I have ever even heard of, Forget commonly used here, Although aparently it is a term of distance used in horse racing.

Edited March 20, 2023 by CandyLand

[needlebat]

6 hours ago, CandyLand said:

Well no probably not, designing a machine completely in metric is not really my goal here, although I have seen some mame cabs done that way...I am more about trying to be able to discuss build techniques across both platforms without shoving Imperial down anyone's throat...Say you do a build of a control panel in mm, I can't learn from that without recalculation or even a very basic understanding of size, and consequently the other way around If I build something in inches it doesn't fit your designs or ideas, Basically I don't believe one is better than the other, they are just different, and a good builder would know and use both...Going forward I have been practicing in less critical measures as conversions, (Yes I can't get away from that) and have been getting pretty close, not perfect mind you, but close enough for a comparative understanding on less than critical.

I had to look up a "furlong" that's not something I have ever even heard of, Forget commonly used here, Although aparently it is a term of distance used in horse racing.

It's a blend. There is certainly more romance in antique measures; not just the English. And also counting systems for that matter. I keep a set of Vernier calipers on my desk, and workbench, and in my pocket when picking up hardware. So long as the numbers match, all is good. I find them (and a tape) great for 'basic understanding of size' as well. Oh, I still do people's height in ' and ", the metric does not have an affinity, because I have not yet bothered to work on it 🙂 MPG was the last 'converted' 

[Autosteve]

If the imperial measuring system was in 100ths of an inch instead of say 32nds or 64ths of an inch, it would have been superior to metric as an inch is smaller than a meter to begin with.

It is the base 10 system that makes metric work so well.

Key words in metric system also helps..

Mega = 1,000,000

Kilo = 1.000

Hecto = 100

Deka = 10

Deci = 1 tenth

Centi = 1 hundredth

Milli = 1 thousandth

Micro = 1 millionth

Nano = 1 billionth

Pico = 1 trillionth

Not all these prefixes are used in the metric distance measuring system but are in say the measurement of electric resistance.

Interestingly these prefixes are Latin and translated to Greek so the metric system has been used in one form or another way before imperial but not until recent times was it all laid out and simplified.

An example of this would be the metric weight system where 1000 liters of water, ( a kiloliter) weighs 1000 kilograms, (a metric tonne) @25 Celcius.

Everyone knows that in the metric system but how many people know how much 1000 US gallons weighs in US tons?.

I would regard myself as being pretty good with both metric and imperial but I have never even heard that conversion number.

The metric temperature scaling is a fair bit easier to understand as well based around water.....

0 Celsius is the temperature water freezes at, ( 32 Fahrenheit )

100 Celsius is the temperature water boils at, ( 212  Fahrenheit )

 

 

 

[CandyLand]

That is an interesting point electronics math is already in metric units, and should make this somewhat easier if I just follow your list...Thanks for that, it would seem I am just stupid or something on the subject, but in reality it is quite difficult to just change how you measure something,  and is probably going to take time to actively use both in practice...Once a month I buy some new fancy tool for the shop, and trying to incorporate some metric, but like Needlebat said earlier you wind up with multiple sets of tools in both capacities.

This month I got a new Starrett wiggler center finder, (surprisingly quite reasonable) been wanting on of these sets for years just one of those things you think you don't need until you do...Here is a fun vid on the subject if you guys want to follow along, But thinking it will help considerably in precision hole placement like we are doing on this project, I probably won't review it or anything, just a fun update on shop tooling...So excited, I do love quality precision tools.

 

Edited March 24, 2023 by CandyLand

[CandyLand]

Spose that is irrelevant....

Edited April 7, 2023 by CandyLand

[needlebat]

I need a drill press 🙂