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Could Pinball Handle A Change Of Shape And Appearance?


Autosteve

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You need to really open your mind to fully take in what I'm talking about here. What could be in the future and what is currently. Form VS function. Weigh, manoeuvrability, practicality, space restictions and these are only a few.

A very good example of a product changing to suit all these points would be a PC monitor.

 

Now look at and in a pinball and see just how much smaller, lighter, possibly more practical it could be if it evolved in overall size to what is actually required space wise to make it actually still work.

Not the playfield width and length wise, the cabinet depth, the head depth and head height or does the machine actually still require a head?.

 

Now if you trim the size down to what is actually required, you could end up with a product thats weight is close to 1/3 of it's current weight.

 

That brings in the legs. You would need longer legs but do you still require 4 legs or legs at all?. You could use a totally different design of legs or leg design. You could wall mount it?.

 

Wall mount I accually like. It has some real advantages but could possibly only work in selected venues. You could mount it in such a way it is very stable which is one of the only current reasons pinball are still how they are that I can see. For stability. A wall mount could allow the machine to sit flat to the wall when not in use and displaying it's art if your that way inclined.

 

You don't really need a big deep front coin door. Coin mechs are slowly being phased out for bill excepters, card readers and a host of other methods like in the gaming industry and there are low depth alternatives, pool table flat coin mechs is one but there are others that have been used in the past.

 

I love pinballs and the concept of pinball, the game. I'm just not 100% locked in on it's current cabinet design and wonder if pinball's viability into the future could be changed for the better simply by reducing the products weight and size. There could be some quite significant cost savings in manufacture as a result as well.

 

Something to think about maybe.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Just go VR Pinball Simulation it covers nearly all your requirements and an absolute fraction of the cost. Made one for a friend and basically offers pinball without the space, cost or maintenance required.

 

+1. I have mine running via PS4/(eventually)5 with over 100 tables (12 are VR - in Pinball FX2 VR - the rest can be played in Cinema mode - in Pinball FX 3) and no need to tweak settings like you have to in Virtual Pin setups using mame.

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Yes it would be nice to see a change, it's so bulky for no reason, so much wasted space. There has been many attempts in the past to change the look of pinball, but most of those are unheard of shitty games, if it was paired with a good playing game it may take off.

In fact its a common comment from the general public when I get the time to give guided tours of the museum - being able to show them the displays of the pinball internals (we have stuff like EM/SS guts up on the walls), always a comment along the lines of "why is the cabinet and/or headbox so big when its all empty space inside?"...... yeah good question, there's absolutely no need.

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Interesting. Problem with streamlining and reducing weight is nudging might push the game through the wall. Btw a criticism I heard often about sterns was the felt light and flimsy compared to b/w games. So having a lighter game may take some getting used to for some.

 

aliens was criticised for it's head because it was different to the norm. Maybe that's why games haven't changed too much?

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Why the weight? A big thing in the way pinballs are played is the weight is required to offset nudging... But then wall mounting it with some kind of suspension in the way it's mounted in the wall to allow nudging may get around that? 🤷�♂�
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People wont push a game through the wall if its lighter. You adjust the amount of strength you exert when handling things with different weights, or at least most people do....

 

For all the lighter games I've seen people play, they're actually more gentle, nudging is actually easier to do and it actually seems much more effective. Look at any pinball from the 30s and 40s, nudging is one of the main part of the game, and its so easy to do because the machines weigh a lot less than modern ones.

 

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Some very interesting points. About the nudging and I agree. Less weight, easier to nudge but I believe you could nulify the reasons for nudging simply by the game's layout itself. You use to nudge at the top of the playfield with lanes to get the required lanes. Pretty much no need to nudge for this reason with lane change. Outlanes is another area. Could change the outlanes design so a loose is far more decisive. Gobble holes is one way of being more decisive with loosing the ball?.

 

The no head bit comes from pinballs in the 20-40s not having heads because they had no real scoring or a need for a head. The head was required later and the head's artwork become excepted as part of pinball but simply having a head on a machine in a modern arcade, if there is such a thing as a modern arcade, is no guarantee what it will earn or gain player appeal. But not having a head on a machine in an arcade means it can go in the center of the floor space if need be where as any machine with a large head will normally be destined for an outer wall or a corner. A big colourful bright head worked when every machine in an arcade was a pinball and that head made it different to the other pinballs.

 

Machines located in the middle of an arcade earn more simply by location. Against a wall in a corner pretty much means that machine, any machine no matter how good, won't get played or earn as much unless it's a freak like Daytona but pinball hasn't had a "Daytona" for a couple of decades. Does pinball really deserve this arcade location?. Loose the head or such a massive head and pinball may just stand a chance of a better location. Better location means higher income. Higher income on a machine that costs much less to buy because it costs much less to manufacture and most operators may just buy a couple.

 

Make the machine much lighter and easier to move and earn more money and costs less to buy and that operator may buy several.

 

 

 

 

 

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I think pinball by design is just fine the way it is. It’s the change in this generations mindset who would rather get the quick rush of winning tickets out of a redemption machine or racing friends in the Daytona’s. Pinball has always been a game of skill and requires a degree of thinking and strategy. Pokies and redemption games are basically the same just targeted at different age groups. I think new Pinball will die a slow death from a manufacturing point of view because it’s just getting very expensive to buy model after model. Edited by hotty
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It's been done Steve, Remember the Take Five style pinball machine. Not wall mounted but the concept is workable that's about as small as you would go IMO.

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Yep excellent point. I forgot all about these. Then there was pin2000 as a change up to the norm and a big fail. If change comes it'll have to be real gradual. Millimeters here and there so people actually don't notice the change.

 

pinball and a slow death I dunno. I've said this for many years but also house prices will plummet and both don't look likely for some time. If pinball dies it'll be quick. The fad will finish and game over. I don't think current buyers are diehard like my gen but I could be mistaken

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I reckon pinball will never die its just to much fun whenever my mates come round with their kids all the kids want to do is play

pinball which i encourage because i can remember being 5 years old playing a friend of the families em gottlieb bronco and ever since then

it has instilled in me a love for playing the silver ball it also made me aspire to one day owning my own pinball which i did 15 years later

mates would come over and would be blown away by the fact that i had a pinball machine most of my mates now or at sometime since then have owned a

pinball n if they dont they come round to my place n play it is truely awesome to hear a seven year old kid turn to his five year old brother after playing my

data east star wars and say THAT WAS INTENSE then proceed to play umpteen games of pinbot it makes me smile and think that one day these young uns

will have their own pinball machines to play

arcades are good and i love playing them but pinball is better from em solid state to dmd pinball is the bees knees its perfect (when they are working) i reckon

why change something thats perfect

 

 

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It's been done Steve, Remember the Take Five style pinball machine. Not wall mounted but the concept is workable that's about as small as you would go IMO.

[ATTACH=JSON]{"alt":"Click image for larger version Name:\timage-3.jpg Views:\t0 Size:\t36.4 KB ID:\t2192261","data-align":"none","data-attachmentid":"2192261","data-size":"medium"}[/ATTACH]

 

Arr yes, I remember the Take 5s. Howard Goddard thought they would do well right when space invaders was taking off so he ordered a shitload of them. We put a heap out the airport, the highest earning pubs and even the 2nd floor at Hoyts City. 2nd floor of Hoyts was previously for pinballs still new but about 6 months old and still earning great cash but not quite the latest machines like the lower street level of Hoyts...We had a lot of NIB Take 5s.

Prior to this in the warehouse and when they were still boxed, I thought video machines but was told, no pinballs.

Hmmm ok, I'll open them up?. It was my job to pull pins out of the box, play, ( test), set pricing and ready for operation. Boss says yes and I opened the first one up. Interesting idea but not a pinball was my immediate thought, wrong shape but it may work.

Played it and was pretty disappointed. Seemed very slow reacting coil wise and a very basic game but I guess my biggest surprise was why the standard sized ball and flippers and playfield parts?

I thought a quicker reacting board with say a 3/4" ball and they could have fit a lot more on a small playfield and turn it into something rather worthy of playing. Pinball but miniaturised. Hercules the pinball went huge with a huge ball, bats, lanes etc, why not the opposite?. That is exactly my thinking all those years ago.

 

Turns out the machines had many faults but the main one stopping it from earning was they become tables. Out the airport, people put there luggage on them. The picture theatres, drinks and food. Taught me a pinball can't have a flat glass.

 

Looking at that concept now, I think maybe it might work as a miniaturised pinball with a smaller ball like I thought all those years ago. Game boards and ruleset from a better brand SS machine and miniaturised playfield parts and it could be a much easier machine to operate. Take off the base to reduce the weight and size and wall mount it to a post in a pub. The octaganal shape wasn't bad but the fake wood, it was cheap looking brand new, changed to better looking fake wood.

 

Good thinking guys.

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Wow Autosteve its funny that you mention the ones at hoyts its the one and only time i ever played a take 5 when i first saw it i thought it was

a bizzare shaped cocktail arcade went over for a captain cook n was surprised to find it was a pinball and being a pinball person thought i would

give it a go i found it to be clunky and never played one again it just didnt feel right

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When I was doing road service for Golden west, We had a Take five up stairs at the Daily Planet brothel. I got a call to go and fix it on site as it was trapped upstairs when the stair case was removed and a spiral stair case went in. Anyway I get there & opened the coin door to get the glass lifted and the 20 cent pieces just poured out like a pokie win, the machine was over flowing with coins stopping it from working. It turns out the ladies played it to relax between clients.
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Spoke to a local operator yesterday about this subject. His suggestion for improving pinball was folding legs. Gotta admit not a bad idea. He was in favour of a lighter product as well. Not real sure about a smaller product though for product recognition purposes.

 

About the folding legs idea, that has merit. Costs is the obvious negative I can see but it has some advantages for those that move pinballs a lot. If the overall weight was reduced on a pinball, I think folding legs would be a lot more obvious. Fold the head down, fold the legs up and transport on a two wheel trolley. Would really help if the head was the width of the body. Can you see any reason the head is wider on most pinballs?

 

About the legs, ever wondered why they are angle when round tube is much lighter for more strength?. There angle so you can put bolts through it and mount to the outside if the cabinet. You could however use round tubular legs that slide into slightly larger round tubes and snap into place being accessed through the floor. I think the artwork might be cheering this one.

 

If the legs were quick release, I'm sure more would take the legs off transporting and start using a two wheeled trolley. You could also use a stair walking trolley.

 

 

 

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Folding legs open to me two issues.

 

1/ Liability

 

2/ Strength & weight

 

1/ If the mechanism fails due to metal fatigue caused by pushing the game in play over time, Well we have a problem with the lawyers.

 

2/ Folding legs will need to be very strong & with that the weight will increase compared to a stand bolt on leg, and the extra cost in doing it. Not to mention rusted up over time causing extra problems.

 

I just can't see that idea being safe or viable. :unsure

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I can't imagine folding legs being secure... every item I can think of that uses folding legs is always wobbly.

 

For strength I like the tube legs over the current angle legs, its an interesting idea... although throughout your entire post all I could think of was the Williams early 60's Futuristic Pinball Cabinet with its tube legs. I'm sure tubular legs would be done differently and not look so cliche late 50s early 60s, but thats all I could imagine :lol

 

For your comment on taking the legs off, this is a collector forum so I'd bet almost everyone on here already takes the legs off for transport, I bet theres very few old operators on this site that are still transporting legs on. Most people on here would probably say taking the legs on/off is not a huge hassle..... its not as annoying like putting the headbox up/down is.

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