My bet to a workmate over the future of cars

[CandyLand]

Ya so funny isn't it, Wait until it is your kid standing there wouldn't that be hilarious 😆.

[Gehirn]

42 minutes ago, CandyLand said:

Ya so funny isn't it, Wait until it is your kid standing there wouldn't that be hilarious 😆.

Well i dont think electric cars and a green future will do that. What's funny is the leaps you make to tie things together.

FYI the homelessness data hasn't been updated since 2016 because the Australian census is done every five years and the majority of the data doesn't come out until two years later. There are plenty of other groups that do their own research into the current numbers.

Edited November 18, 2022 by Gehirn

[Autosteve]

12 hours ago, danny_galaga said:

Steve was telling me how wonderful having a 70 year old car is for the environment. Naturally I assume that must be what he drives 

No, only bought one new car and would never do that again. Rebuilt a few and simply dropped another major part in them though.

Most cars have been 2nd hand and only ones parts are easy to get basically so I could keep them doing what they were designed to do. Bought the Pagero with 75,000kms on it and put another 225,000kms on it and now it still lives down the farm. That to me is getting the most out of a vehicle with the smallest impact on the planet.

I guess I see the whole EV route as a dead end we are being forced into at our cost.

I see them as a toxic time bomb with virtually no sustainability in there design and are basically therefore, a throw away one use product at a very high price both for nature and financially but I see wind turbines and old solar panels in the same category.

As for the coal ash, at least it's natural. There are several underground coal fires burning with no hope of them going out until all the coal is burnt. Some were lit naturally so that indicates to me coal fires and therefore there ash is something the planet has dealt with since the start of time.

The man made cocktail inside those batteries though is not and if you bury those batteries, when the steel outer shell of the battery each battery breaks down and the potion of lithium inside it comes in contact with water, what do you think will happen?

Lithium and water explode so how exactly are we going to dispose of these "trillions" of batteries.

The individual batteries that make up the Tesla battery banks are made by Panasonic in there "Chinese" factory by the way. It mentioned that on the site I got the battery pack pictures from. The US plant as the other Tesla plants around the world are simply assembly plants not manufacturing plants.

[CandyLand]

52 minutes ago, Gehirn said:

Well i dont think electric cars and a green future will do that. What's funny is the leaps you make to tie things together.

FYI the homelessness data hasn't been updated since 2016 because the Australian census is done every five years and the majority of the data doesn't come out until two years later. There are plenty of other groups that do their own research into the current numbers.

Doesn't take a genius to see the choices between food or fuel...Figger it out and get back to me.

[CandyLand]

And in regards to homelessness, let me help you out with some preliminary numbers while you wait for your census guy to catch up to the rest of the planet...Doesn't look good, says Swami Jennifer, Aparently that works out to an increase of like 9% according to this, keeping in mind that's the household, not the number of people in it.

Edited November 18, 2022 by CandyLand

[Boots]

15 hours ago, oldhank said:

Peanut butter m&ms are my favourite 

Come on Hank

Everyone knows Aussie is Peanut Paste not butter. 
Stop speaking Yank. 🤣

I like peanut M&M’s 🤤

 

Battery powered vehicles are definitely not the answer hardly better than fossil fuel for the environment. Just because the end waste is buried doesn’t mean it’s not there. Isn’t lithium in short supply anyway?

[CandyLand]

I bought a bag of those peanut M&Ms once and they were all peanut W&Ws...I was so disappointed.

[CandyLand]

You may as well also add water borne diseases such as cholera and dysentery to your list too Danny...Mmmm big tasty drink of that after a hard day in the mine, it would probably be better to just lick a public toilet seat in comparison

[danny_galaga]

1 hour ago, Boots said:

Come on Hank

Everyone knows Aussie is Peanut Paste not butter. 
Stop speaking Yank. 🤣

I like peanut M&M’s 🤤

 

Battery powered vehicles are definitely not the answer hardly better than fossil fuel for the environment. Just because the end waste is buried doesn’t mean it’s not there. Isn’t lithium in short supply anyway?

Guys, you are still forgetting that we absolutely HAVE to stop putting pollution in the air. If instead it has to be buried, that is still a win. Besides, the magic bullet the fossil fuel industry is touting is carbon sequestration. Yep, burying it 😄

More news related to my BET 

https://thedriven-io.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/thedriven.io/2022/11/18/australian-cars-may-finally-get-clean-fuel-in-first-step-to-emission-controls-and-switch-to-evs/amp/?amp_gsa=1&amp_js_v=a9&usqp=mq331AQIKAGwASCAAgM%3D#amp_tf=From %1%24s&aoh=16688125949413&csi=0&referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&ampshare=https%3A%2F%2Fthedriven.io%2F2022%2F11%2F18%2Faustralian-cars-may-finally-get-clean-fuel-in-first-step-to-emission-controls-and-switch-to-evs%2F

 

 

 

[CandyLand]

 I am so out of here, ...Que  music.

Edited November 19, 2022 by CandyLand

[danny_galaga]

10 hours ago, Foot said:

So Danny, been a while since I checked in on this thread, who's winning the bet so far? Care to summarise or am I going to have to set aside an hour to catch up 🦼

😄

Look, it's a fun debate. And I seriously think I like Steve and Candy. They are certainly going off on tangents though. I think here I should explain a bit about my own thought processes.

I don't know what people think about me (hopefully nothing too evil!) But what is true about me is I am a high school drop out. And this is not where I say 'but through grit and determination I am now a self made millionaire who has achieved total consciousness'. No, I really think I am less smart now than when I was twenty.

BUT, in my twenties I did learn a few things that helps (maybe only the tiniest amount) to divine some sort of underlying truth in many matters. I had been wondering for a while how you can tell which side of an argument is correct, or most correct since invariably both sides seem to have good points. I didn't have an epiphany or anything. I just happened upon a great little book, first published in the 1920's called 'Straight and Crooked Thinking'. All it basically is, is a primer for logical fallacies, which I seemed to be away for the day they taught it at school 😄

Not going to rattle off every example, but everyone knows, probably intuitively this example. If Candyland says to me 'i think the Seahawks are going to win the Superbowl next year' and I reply with 'yes but the Redsox are better than the Bluejays' that is called a Non Sequitur (it does not follow). We are both talking about sports, but whether the Bluejays or the Redsox are a better baseball team probably won't affect the outcome of a football grand final. 

When you identify a logical fallacy, then that can be cut from the argument. It's useless to consider it. This is how judges think, and especially scientists.

I really recommend that book to anyone interested in having a basic understanding. I myself keep forgetting all the forms of logical fallacy. Some are hard for me to get my head around. 

If we just removed all the non sequiturs in this thread (including my own) it would probably only be a page or two long 😄

[Boots]

Agree we have to stop polluting the air but burying toxic substances does not solve the problem at all. 
Poisoning the ground is not preferable to poisoning the air. 
Just because it’s buried does not mean it’s all good, it’s still bad. 
Maybe we just aren’t smart enough to come up with a better option or is it a case of it not suiting the companies that want to make maximum profit. 
Free will is a myth when it comes to consumerism, the big companies make you believe that you want /need that product. 
Travelling in rockets was science fiction originally until someone dreamed a way of achieving it. Maybe we just don’t dream hard enough. 

Edited November 19, 2022 by Boots

[CandyLand]

Oh I believe we are smart enough collectively, especially us as we are the builders of dreams, But innovation and prosperity comes from  cheap abundant energy and consequently affordable materials.

[Pinoffski]

On 10/01/2021 at 3:52 AM, Autosteve said:

I'm for nuclear power generation myself. Been tested and proven and it actually works and would provide far more power than anything we have now and likely into the future at a fraction of the cost. Put it in my backyard after all I live within the 2km exclusion zone from Australia's only reactor right now. If that thing pops I get evauated at the country's cost unlike someone that lives 300 meters further down my road. Lucas Heights was made where it is because that ground is some of the most stable on the planet. Been there since 1957 and had no major problems and has only got safer over time anyway.

One thing I do know is the more half arsed schemes that are started to solve the power problem, the far greater the finished cost.

Problem is everyone thinks that have the answer and if all just throw money my way, I will prove it.

Wave power, look at the wreckage near Port Kemba NSW and another off the coast of SA and see how that went.

Wind power, look up "wind turbine graveyards" and see how they all went when the subsidies ended now left to rot and is another generation's problem to clean up like the mess we are creating here in some of the most pristine places in the Aussie bush and farm land well out of site off where the majority of the end users live.

Solar farms, again, look up, "solar farm graveyards" including Californians famous mirror reflector/ heat up salt experiment that destoyed the nearby town. Have a look how well that "experiment" is going now. Who is going to clean up that mess?.

Roof top solar. How often do you ever see a home owner on his roof cleaning those panels?. Think how dirty your house windows become and require cleaning and they are vertical. How often do you see electricians up on roof top renewing all the solar damaged wire connecting the panels?

That second one would probably explain why it near impossible to get house insurance in Germany for houses with roof top solar panels because of all the house fires started by poorly maintained solar wiring by many of the major house insurance companies seeing as Germany is about 10 years ahead of our solar panel, roof top programs.

Solar panels also deteriate. While they are full of warranties like 25 years against breakage or failure, there is no mention that solar panels produce less power over time and is therefore not covered by such warranties. Some say as high as 25% loss over 5 years and seeing as I have solar panels and battery storage as the only source of power on my farm for over 8 years as we are not on the grid. I do clean the panels and replace the wiring, panels about twice a year and wiring about every two years and monitor the whole system I can assure you that 25% is about right.

Nuclear waste> I honestly believe we in Australia should start burying it and charge a fortune for taking care of other countries nuclear waste. That money could pay for our nuclear power program. I have been to many places in this country and I can assure you if you drill a hole in some of our deserts and run mine shafts off it 200 meters under the ground, no one is ever going to invest all the required money and time to get to that depth in that exact location ever again and "accidently " open one of the lead lined purposely build storage containers used to store spent nuclear waste stored in those mine shafts. We don't dig that deep to find dinosaurs, only gold or fossil fuels would make it viable and if that is already proven not to be anywhere near that part of the choosen state where the bury location is, that isn't going to happen is it?

It amazes my the Greens are so hell bent on looking after the all things to do with nature but turn a blind eye to where some of these wind turbines are now being installed scaring the landscape for future generations to clean up. I guess it is like there rubbish they create in there globalist lifestyle. Not in my neighbourhood so out of site out of mind.

Nuclear problems of the past. Locate the power plant that is not beside the Pacific Ocean where sunarmies are not known to occur> Japan.

Three mile Island USA> use later technology that drops the rods into a safe location in the tank when there is a power outage or malfunction, not use power to control this happening.

Chenoval USSR> don't dress up a military nuclear weapons grade enrichment plant and make power for use for the country as a cover for it's actual intended use.

Water storage.... Snowy Hydro II. Imagine how many "gold spotted frogs" with be found by Greens when that is ready to start. All that money has all gone into inquires so far by the way. We built the original Snowy scheme to supply the Murray Irrigation Area with water to grow crops, the power was only a by product. We also used cheap labour from displaced foreign workers after WW2 as a means to build it at an affordable cost with many deaths and dangerous work practices. Not going to be that simple again when you consider the Snowy Hydro Scheme II is 3 times larger than the original Snowy program.

Electric Cars> where are all those first generation Toyota Preisus now?. A hybred system but still required lithium batteries to make it work. Acording to my mate that is a local auto electrican, the batteries deteriate and replacement battery banks are more than the car is worth. The batteries go into landfill and the cars were crushed. More throw away society with that all to common out of site out of mind mentality used by those that want to save the planet using up and wasting more of the rare materials on this planet for there personal private use.

I can afford it and I will be seen as a planet saver while I have it when it is new and onces I'm done with it, who cares.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

nobody can afford it with  the current trends

The  young generation say we will pay extra to save the environment but they live at home with no responsibility

most people are brain washed though social media and the trends  .... lemmings

if you keep saying it must be true...

it is abit like recycling as most goes to land fill

anyhow don't tell the reel truth ...

as no one is listening ...

it doesn't get you any votes

 

 

 

[Zzap]

The oil companies must be in bed with the chicken farms!

This probably what people are worried about with nuclear power

[danny_galaga]

4 hours ago, Boots said:

Agree we have to sop polluting the air but burying toxic substances does not solve the problem at all. 
Poisoning the ground is not preferable to poisoning the air. 
Just because it’s buried does not mean it’s all good, it’s still bad. 
Maybe we just aren’t smart enough to come up with a better option or is it a case of it not suiting the companies that want to make maximum profit. 
Free will is a myth when it comes to consumerism, the big companies make you believe that you want /need that product. 
Travelling in rockets was science fiction originally until someone dreamed a way of achieving it. Maybe we just don’t dream hard enough. 

No, all that air pollution is adding to more greenhouse gases. That is a bigger problem than almost anything else. If you have pollution that you bury, then by and large, the climate is not being effected. The way we are changing the climate is the biggest existential threat to civilisation yet. 

There, I've added yet another non sequitur to the question 'will there be new ICE powered family vehicles available to buy in Australia by 2031'

😄

[CandyLand]

I am not trying to be be a troll, but OMG, 500,000 pounds of the earth needs to be processed for just 1 car battery?...No, that is Not cool man, just saying, I will actively protect such blatant disregard for the planet.

Edited November 19, 2022 by CandyLand

[oldhank]

[danny_galaga]

12 hours ago, CandyLand said:

I am not trying to be be a troll, but OMG, 500,000 pounds of the earth needs to be processed for just 1 car battery?...No, that is Not cool man, just saying, I will actively protect such blatant disregard for the planet.

 

https://www.transportenvironment.org/discover/electric-car-batteries-need-far-less-raw-materials-fossil-fuel-cars-study/

[Pinoffski]

if i work harder my boss can buy another electric volvo 😂

[CandyLand]

They may as well promise us all free  hamburgers or something too, "In the future"...Because we are talking about only 1 battery not even the disposable car it is in...Hell, that Plymouth alone, if it was electric would be on its seventh battery, The quick math on that is 3,500,000 pounds of earth, before even being mined, moved, processed, shipped, fabricated and shipped again factory to be assembled, all repeated another 7 times...Again for only 1 car.

 

Edited November 20, 2022 by CandyLand

[CandyLand]

But, if you want some good news...Tesla just built a new hydrogen car, https://youtu.be/Aw4Z4awLXFw

Edited November 20, 2022 by CandyLand

[Pinoffski]

@CandyLand

I remember ford in the usa did a hydrogen car in the 80's dont quote me on it as it could of been 90's

i think it was a ford mercury

probably better than the battery option imop

 

[CandyLand]

I seem to remember something like that, diddnt really pay attention at the time, But yes I would have to assume the race is about to make a hard left...Looks like Toyota and now Tesla out in front.

[Autosteve]

6 hours ago, danny_galaga said:

 

https://www.transportenvironment.org/discover/electric-car-batteries-need-far-less-raw-materials-fossil-fuel-cars-study/

Do you actually believe that?

 

On 19/11/2022 at 5:53 PM, danny_galaga said:

No, all that air pollution is adding to more greenhouse gases. That is a bigger problem than almost anything else. If you have pollution that you bury, then by and large, the climate is not being effected. The way we are changing the climate is the biggest existential threat to civilisation yet. 

The problem we are trying to prevent is CO2 in the atmosphere we are all being told. That dangerous gas that if it raises to a to higher level, it hypothetically could hold to much heat in on the planet causing temperatures to rise.

That to me is still a hypothetical problem however the problems caused by all the stupid ways we have come up with to date to rid the world of this problem are not hypothetical.