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My bet to a workmate over the future of cars


danny_galaga
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3 hours ago, danny_galaga said:

Some motivational posters if your attitude prevailed in WWI 😀

Yes the Europeans have a habit of getting other parts of the world involved to sort out problems they created haven't they?.

Maybe they should try a mass tree planting program and re-forest the place like it was around 300 years ago.

Christ, imagine if that generation had access to chainsaws.

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Autosteve said:

Yes the Europeans have a habit of getting other parts of the world involved to sort out problems they created haven't they?.

Maybe they should try a mass tree planting program and re-forest the place like it was around 300 years ago.

Christ, imagine if that generation had access to chainsaws.

That may be, but my point is that Australia has always proudly punched above it's weight. I mean in the example of WWI, Australians are world famous for their involvement. John Monash is considered by many international historians as being one of the best generals of that war and some historians say THE best. And he was a civil engineer that thought he should do his bit.

So many other things, especially in sports we punch above our weight. But also science and technology. For instance, my good friends brother, designed the 3D graphics chip for the Sega Dreamcast! A Brissie boy 🙂

But no, JUST on the subject of climate change, the coal-ition wants us to keep in our place. Not rock the boat for their fossil fuel buddies. Interesting...

But if you aren't proud of Australia's accomplishments on the world stage, that's fair enough. We are entitled to our opinions. 

Edited by danny_galaga
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Increasing popularity of lithium battery powered vehicles will severely Increase pollution. A much worse kind too. It is nonsense when cars that run on water have been hidden for many decades now. I wonder why that is? . No, I don't wonder, actually. :classic_dry:

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On 14/04/2022 at 7:26 AM, danny_galaga said:

Some motivational posters if your attitude prevailed in WWI 😀

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Lest We Forget!!

 

Ironically this also links by a little separation, to why our car industry was sabotaged and destroyed. Occupation. :3

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WTF

What a load of horse ……

Twisting facts to push her own agenda

I love a good conspiracy as much as the next guy but come on. 

Edited by Boots
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On 08/01/2021 at 2:46 PM, Gemini2544 said:

There is a problem with this bet. 4x4 & big diesel cars will still be common place as people pull Boats, Caravans, Trailers & Horse floats. No electric car could ever replace them.

I feel like you are going to eat your words on this one. Only time will tell.

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34 minutes ago, Gemini2544 said:

Mate I'm on a Farm & the machinery is huge. The small tractor is mine!

DSC_0963.JPG

It's already happening 

ELectric vehicles and technology in Ag has huge potential. Not for everyone to start with but that is some serious power in the video above.

 

Also the tesla cyber truck is rated to towing around 7t. Way better than any current 4x4 on the market

 

Iv

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16 hours ago, Josh Cohen said:

I feel like you are going to eat your words on this one. Only time will tell.

Yes, it's early days yet but it doesn't take Nostradamus to see the future on that one. Possibly not a complete solution by 2031 like my bet, but then my bet is for passenger vehicles. Here's some current specs on towing capacity on EV utes and trucks and cars (note to Steve, this link isn't even pro EV as such, so you are safe to read it. You won't catch the socialism)

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.autotrader.com/car-shopping/electric-vehicle-towing-guide%3famp

 

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I can't see to many farmers I know going out replacing there trusty 30 year old John Dear farmer equipment for a brand new electric to tell you the truth. Trust in brand goes a long way in the bush.

Most farmers are more towards the, "if it ain't broke why change it", mentality and most I talk to feel it unfair they need to change when the problem is clearly a city created problem and no matter what they do, nothing will change the outcome other than them the farmers going broke using products totally unsuitable and most farmers do not buy brand new products in the first place.

Can't see to many interstate truckers getting rid of there fit for purpose trucks to "save the planet" either.

If they do they to will quickly go broke.

 

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Your worrried about Global Climate change when we in the southern hemispere have a hole still in the ozone layer in our skys.

That's like worrying about the windows fogging up when the sunroof is broken and can't be closed in a car.

We are the skin cancer capital in Australia for a very good reason. We are just to small population and influence in the world to get the rest of the world to give us money.

We pay dearly in skin cancer related deaths every year right now, Not something that may or may not happen in 30-40-50 years time.

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Posted (edited)

Steve, I feel you missed one of my posts that specifically talked about farmers, as you seem to be fixated on the idea they aren't interested in technology. Yes, farmers would be silly to just change up silly nilly. My dad's Nuffield tractor was over 50 years old when he passed away. I'm going to repost what I said before:

On 06/04/2022 at 7:57 AM, danny_galaga said:

I love your idyllic view of Australia-everyone is a farmer with a piece of straw in their mouth and cork bobble hat 😃

But you are falling for another logical fallacy- that if there are two things, then that is a 50/50 proportion. In this case the two things are urban/rural. About 85% of Australia's population is urban. So if you're argument is that rural people can't drive EVs then the proportion of eventual EV uptake would be closer to 85/15. 

https://www.macrotrends.net/countries/AUS/australia/urban-population#:~:text=Australia urban population for 2020,a 1.82% increase from 2016.

 

There is an aspect of farmer folk that I think is admirable and that is to make do. I'm sure they don't buy a V8 LandCruiser every year. My dad was a farmer and he drove his 1986 Hilux until he passed away in 2011.  (And yes I'm using the logical fallacy of the selected instance 😄 ) So if im right and there are only EVs by 2031, do all farmers have to sell their trusty vehicles straight away? I guess if they need the latest V8 LandCruiser with all the trimmings. If they have a 2030 diesel ute, it should go twenty years. You must concede that at some stage EVs are going to be the norm. That gives farmers until 2051 to be prepared 🙂

 

Hopeful news on the affordability front:

 

https://www.cnbc.com/2022/04/05/gm-and-honda-to-partner-on-affordable-electric-vehicles.html

 

Oh and I agree that organic food etc is a luxury that can't feed the whole world. I think if people want it, that's fine but for most people in the world, they will need pesticides (made from precious oil that we now currently just burn) and genetically modified food

 

 

.

Edited by danny_galaga
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2 hours ago, Autosteve said:

I can't see to many farmers I know going out replacing there trusty 30 year old John Dear farmer equipment for a brand new electric to tell you the truth. Trust in brand goes a long way in the bush.

Most farmers are more towards the, "if it ain't broke why change it", mentality and most I talk to feel it unfair they need to change when the problem is clearly a city created problem and no matter what they do, nothing will change the outcome other than them the farmers going broke using products totally unsuitable and most farmers do not buy brand new products in the first place.

Can't see to many interstate truckers getting rid of there fit for purpose trucks to "save the planet" either.

If they do they to will quickly go broke.

 

I do get your sentiment, however my job invovles working with farmers and have done for the last 20 years.  The reality isn't trusty 30 year old tractors and the farmer fixes everything. The reality is tractors are now connected to the cloud (where there is service, or once it gets home in wifi range), the farmer gets a notification if something is wrong and its all computer controlled and not a whole lot is repairable by the average farmer. Now i agree this is not ideal, i love fixing and tinkering with stuff myself - but farming is a business, not a lifestyle (for the majority of large scale farmers who produce most of the food and fibre),

Farmers i work with have wireless cameras on all thier equipment so they see machinery operating in the cab and mointor for breakdowns, blocked planter chutes etc.  90% of machinery is GPS autosteer to 2cm accuracy.  Many of the farmers i work with have completely automated furrow irrigation systems.  We help them set up computer software which determines soil moisture (based on complex models and real weather data), this software then will start an irrigation event, sensors in the paddock turn it off.  We are alos working towards self learning irrigation where it improves efficiency each time through adjusting flowrates, run times and other factors.

Most farmers have solar, not because they love solar, but because it makes business sense based on the cost of electricty and the need to run pumps most dfays for irrigation.  They are all constantly looking for ways to make technology work for them.

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Most of the tractors, Headers & Airseeders around here are GPS & Autosteer equipped. They work mostly at night as it's cooler. If it wasn't for the currant laws the farmer would set up days work on the computer and go to bed. As the law stands now someone has to be in control just in case of a malfunction. Those robotic electric machines wouldn't be legal here under the currant laws. Not yet anyway!

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7 hours ago, danny_galaga said:

Steve, I feel you missed one of my posts that specifically talked about farmers, as you seem to be fixated on the idea they aren't interested in technology.

No not deliberately not reading your posts as what I read here I find quite fasinating and I can assure you I read everything here usually multiple times just to be quite clear I understand exactly what everyone is saying.

Some of your links however require me to log in or even a subscription required to read them other than the first few lines before it gets blocked out by popups and these I choose not to open but I regard that as my loss.

On the tech side of things and solar powered devices. Yes I use a lot myself on a non productive farm as I see no reason to have a manual gate when I can do it wirelessly with solar, use fuel in a pump when I can use solar and timers to do the same thing. Can't use WiFi as there is none and a bar of phone reception is handy but can't be relied on but I use transmitters and receivers to achive the same result.

Problem is the more electronics involved, the more things to go wrong and I see no problems moderately using tech to help but overuse is in the end, creating more things to go wrong and they do go wrong.

There was a nice story regarding tech in Catapiller Tractors that come out right at the very start of CoVid. It was about to go though the US Government for a ruling where Caterpillar tractors were displaying error signals and preventing the tractors from operating till a Cat tech come on site to reset the machine with a Cat programmer to get the tractor operational again.

It was proven to be a fabricated time interval error and the US government was set to determine whether this should be seen as a way for the factory to continue getting money from it's customers, (worldwide), dependent on the manufacturer's support to keep the machine operational.

The ruling was to deturmine whether under these operating conditions, should the machine, any machine have be sold or only ever hired at a much lower cost as without regular ongoing costly factory intervention, the machine was prevented from operating in a reliable manner the buying customer expected.

The story was on Landline and many Australian farmers were involved all with machinery that couldn't be operated simply because trying to get Cat Techs on some of these farms was next to impossible and the cost was at the owner's expence. 

There was no mention of this at the time of purchase and some of these machines are over $500K to buy from a dealer hundereds if not thousands of KMs away.

Would have loved to have heard the outcome of this ruling as I know many products that use this exact same factory intervention requirde to keep there products operational.

A swiss world maker of autodoor mechs I worked on several years ago and is installed in hundreds of shopping centers in Australia had in it's programming an optional feature to signal a warning buzzer not to stop the mech's operation but sound an annoying buzzer which in turn required a factory programmer to reset and stop the buzzer. The purpose of the buzzer was to signal fault codes had been logged but that buzzer could be triggered by this "operator set feature" in the programming if the installer elected to enable this feature and set it either by operations of the mech or a time duration set to a date.

The buyer had no idea as his owners manual he got had no such information regarding this feature that was hidden in a lower level of settings, only the installers manual made mention of this lower level and unless you entered the correct 4 digit code, you couldn't get into this lower level of settings.

Love the topic but Australia is a very different beast that can throw up very unique problems with "World machinery" and that is what makes this topic so intriguing.

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