My bet to a workmate over the future of cars

[The Big Easy]

16 hours ago, danny_galaga said:

ICE future is assured 😃

https://hackaday.com/2023/01/17/the-first-afghan-sports-car-has-an-engine-you-shouldnt-mock/

That's the Taliban for you- always 100 years behind everyone else...

The Taliban once again control Afghanistan and will use whatever vehicles they can lay their hands on

[danny_galaga]

 

https://newatlas.com/automotive/amogy-first-ammonia-semi/

[Autosteve]

Optimistic. The ammonia truck.

A bit of creative plumbing and a truck load of cows...........Methane truck🤣

 

About EVs 

Swap over charged battery packs is the only way to make it far more practical.

Swap and go, exactly like gas.

Standardize the battery pack sizes and specs, Maybe 2 or 3 different sizes and you drive in and swap the battery packs over, flat for charged.

EVs have space not used by ICE vehicles yet still have the same body shape so must be a lot of unused space in there for removable battery packs?.

The battery packs themselves need to be generic. Like I said start off with 2 or 3 different sizes but the vehicle itself can take multiples of what size it can fit.

A little city runabout might use one or small battery packs where as the Land cruiser sized boat towing EV uses 10 of the larger battery packs.

The only logical fast battery swap method would be straight up from underneath. You drive in, your battery packs are "plucked out" and the fresh batteries are pushed back in.....Fully automated but you pay.

Your flat battery packs are taken away and tested repairing as necessary, charged up and returned back into service exactly like the swap and go gas service.

You would be familiar with the Ryobi 1 series of cordless tools?.

Now make the battery pack part of the Ryobi tool itself and you have to plug the tool in to recharge and the Ryobi can't be used while recharging.

Not as practical now is it?.

Gotta standardize the battery packs even if it requires a totally different industry just making the batteries.

Remember, the intention is to rid the planet of "all" fossil fuel use so seems logical to standardize on the method to reliably store it.

A jelly can for electricity...

 

 

 

[danny_galaga]

You mean Jerry can?

I have posted about battery swapping before. Personally I think it will become more and more unnecessary, except maybe for trucks. Im also not sure about  this ammonia powered truck. It's still a hydrogen fuel cell. So it's electric. But instead of hydrogen it uses ammonia, which is easier to carry and at least not flammable like hydrogen. But then it needs to be converted to hydrogen to power the fuel cells.

 

Road and Track car of the year. I think you guys are going to like the winner. Don't worry, it's not an EV 😄 Steve, sorry you will have to look away. You can't get more motor 'journal-y' than an article written by a half dozen motor journalists writing for one of the biggest motor journals 😃

https://www.roadandtrack.com/reviews/a42358903/2023-performance-car-of-the-year/

Edited January 20, 2023 by danny_galaga

[CandyLand]

14 hours ago, Autosteve said:

 

You would be familiar with the Ryobi 1 series of cordless tools?.

Now make the battery pack part of the Ryobi tool itself and you have to plug the tool in to recharge and the Ryobi can't be used while recharging.

 

 

 

I guess I have seen them at the store but never bought one, Or any other lithium technology for that matter so the concept is kind of lost on me...But if you compare that to a car out in your driveway (not in the garage due mind you due to fire Hazzard consideration)...Swapping batteries doesn't sound practical or feasible, just more batteries sitting around somewhere and cycling out to end of life.

Edited January 20, 2023 by CandyLand

[CandyLand]

I got to shake my head at the insanity however, I just had to actually buy carbon, Manufactured carbon from a chemical facility mind you, It is used in manufacturing and production...And @ Danny you may be interested to know it is used in everything in one way or another, Inks, resins, paints, coatings, plastic, Rubber, Dyes...EVERYTHING... The tires on that EV fallacy your pushing as example are not even the same as an ICE car, they are made to be more stiff and ridged to handle the extra weight, well besides using more rubber in the sidewalls it is actually mixed with ...You guessed it carbon...(You may want to also factor the rest of that automobile into your " Green net zero," lie)...But the point is...Since the first of the year, The cost has gone UP again, and who do you supose is paying that bill? (Give you a hint, it is not me, The car industry or even our respective governments)...If you want a good piece of sound advice, Pay off on your bet, cut your losses, because you will otherwise pay dearly by destroying your future.

 

Edited January 21, 2023 by CandyLand

[Boots]

5 hours ago, danny_galaga said:

You mean Jerry can?

I have posted about battery swapping before. Personally I think it will become more and more unnecessary, except maybe for trucks. Im also not sure about  this ammonia powered truck. It's still a hydrogen fuel cell. So it's electric. But instead of hydrogen it uses ammonia, which is easier to carry and at least not flammable like hydrogen. But then it needs to be converted to hydrogen to power the fuel cells.

 

Road and Track car of the year. I think you guys are going to like the winner. Don't worry, it's not an EV 😄 Steve, sorry you will have to look away. You can't get more motor 'journal-y' than an article written by a half dozen motor journalists writing for one of the biggest motor journals 😃

https://www.roadandtrack.com/reviews/a42358903/2023-performance-car-of-the-year/

Fun fact “Jerry cans” are so named because in the war the poms were using thin tins in the desert and had endless trouble with them splitting from expanding and contracting day to night, they commandeered fuel cans from the Germans (Jerry’s) and the name stuck.  
 

Edited January 21, 2023 by Boots

[Autosteve]

4 hours ago, danny_galaga said:

I have posted about battery swapping before. Personally I think it will become more and more unnecessary,

To improve an existing product you must first acknowledge it's shortfalls and address them.

To say the current technology of EVs is perfect and can't be improved it is ignorant.

1............The blatantly obvious shortfall with EVs is there poor duty cycle. Duty cycle is the time a product can perform it's job it's designed to do continuously over a 24hour period. The more downtime in the refuelling process over that 24 hour period, the lower the duty cycle as the machine cannot perform it's job during such times.

Charged battery packs ready to go somewhat addresses a large chunk of this downtime as it takes out the charging cycle time the end user currently faces.

2..........The actual suitable charging times for EVs as we turn to "renewable green power sources" for our power grid is slowly going to be learn by all the very slow learners, "cheap excess power" will not be available for the majority of the non daylight hours and I suspect it may become illegal to waste power in these hours on your personal means of transport.

Charged battery packs address this problem to a degree as batteries could be charged in bulk off a dedicated solar farm charging during suitable sunny days.

3.......... The materials used to make EV batteries is not widely found around the planet, some a rather rare and will run out rather quickly so best we look after what we have.

If you have an industry just concentrating on the generic battery packs, each battery pack becomes a product that can be perfectly maintained and repaired on an industrial level rather than one big poor performing old Tesla battery dying with it's now unloved and unwanted Tesla as that battery pack "only" suits that model Tesla. Now imagine the waste when considering no EVs currently have generic batteries and only suit that model and brand it is fitted to.

Again, remember, the intention is to rid the worlds reliance of fossil fuel burning completely, not just vehicles so batteries will be required for more and more purposes..........Everything mains powered is going to require battery back up and there will still be a need for portable electric energy as there won't be gas or fuel to power things like portable water pumps or even the humble camping stove etc.

That's the problem with futurists. They never consider all the negatives when they cry for change.

 

 

 

[danny_galaga]

There is constant improvement of ALL sorts with this technology. To say only YOUR idea will work is ignorant. Even how the batteries are made, and what types of materials are used is constantly evolving. 

Also figure in the types of grid storage being developed. Grid storage would actually be useful even for coal power. Those generators have to keep running 24/7, which is your baseload. It's not something desired, it's just a side effect. So for instance, if you have lots of grid storage, coal fired plants can be smaller/run at a lower level. 

[danny_galaga]

Meanwhile

 

 

 

[jbtech]

Probably better value to take on an apprentice...

[CandyLand]

https://www.wsj.com/articles/tesla-stock-is-headed-for-its-biggest-ever-annual-decline-11672374248

I cant make this stuff up...

[Autosteve]

I'm thinking 100vDC 200 amp battery packs. Maybe the large size being 100vDC 400amp?

Why 100vDC?.

From 100vDC you can covert it to AC and power many mains powered modern universal multi voltage powered devices......78 - 250vAC which is the way the world is going.

We did have a 32vDC standard at one stage. God knows why 32 but it is what it was. Mining equipment, fridges. radios, washing machines and many other products back in the day used this voltage but the need dried up and the voltage was dropped.

Jaycar still supplys the old 32volt DC power socket as a spare part.....

https://www.jaycar.com.au/2-pin-32-volt-15-amp-panel-socket/p/PS2074

However 100vDC seems a much more useful voltage for storage purposes in todays market.

Each battery pack would have it's own charging control, short circuit and over voltage protection built in and the case ideally would be made from explosive proof and self extinguishing materials to prevent lithium fires.

Such battery packs would be quickly picked up by the camping industry and many others once bottled gas becomes unobtainable. Stored battery power will take over in this industry. It stands to reason you would use a universal, widely available, industry made generic product.

 

On the homefront such batteries could be stacked in banks so the homeowner could make there own battery storage to take full advantage of there home solar installation rather than darkness at night.

I think you are looking at such an idea of generic replaceable battery packs as an EV car usage product only where as I'm anticipating the problems ALL industries will quickly face when fossil fuels are banned from use, all use.

You want to go EV for all of us you need to look at the bigger picture.

Generic parts are not new to the auto industry and while your alternative propulsion method uses a generic world wide product, electricity, to power it, the method of storing it at present is not.

You are one up on ICE vehicles as the fuel itself used on ICE machines has to be refined to make it generic, electricity does not.

The method of storing electricity however does.

You can't walk down the road with a bucket of electricity now can you?

What's a replacement battery pack for a Tesla S worth?

  In 2019, Elon Musk said replacing battery modules costs between $5,000 and $7,000. Each Tesla model uses between four and five battery modules 

That is the cost of a replacement as it is a one model one manufacturer product use only.

Now if you make that electricity storage product suitable for many industries and multiple vehicle companies through standardization, the volume of the manufactured device increases and therefore it's cost drops dramatically.

Being generic and standardized means industry can quickly automate the whole battery manufacturing, handling, refurbishing, reconditioning and charging process and the price will plummet.

The world is also in need of a universal energy storage device if you want the world to switch to electricity,  

 

 

 

 

 

 

[oldhank]

[CandyLand]

I won't eat green eggs and ham, Sam I am...Giggle...Tell that Jennifer I ran out for some tuna.

8 hours ago, oldhank said:

 

Edited January 22, 2023 by CandyLand

[prktkljokr]

8 hours ago, oldhank said:

Loos like he may be hiding from the hugs 🤣

[CandyLand]

17 minutes ago, prktkljokr said:

Loos like he may be hiding from the hugs 🤣

I know right?...Poor thing probably has had his eyebrows hugged off by now...

[danny_galaga]

Steve. The high end electric cars are now 800 volts. Obviously 100 goes into 800 evenly, but I can't help thinking that if they went for a system you described, it might be better to to 200v packs. Less external connections . Also, some of these cars can already be used as storage for home power. It's already a thing, Steve 🙂

Edited January 23, 2023 by danny_galaga

[CandyLand]

3 hours ago, danny_galaga said:

Steve. The high end electric cars are now 800 volts. Obviously 100 goes into 800 evenly, but I can't help thinking that if they went for a system you described, it might be better to to 200v packs. Less external connections . Also, some of these cars can already be used as storage for home power. It's already a thing, Steve 🙂

Yes it is a thing Danny...It is yet another lie. 

 

[prktkljokr]

1 hour ago, CandyLand said:

Yes it is a thing Danny...It is yet another lie. 

 

Why would people be spending $70,000 US on solar?, you would never make that money back in a lifetime, the system would need to be replaced way before you would see a return.

I need to go sell stuff in the US if its this easy to extract the $$$

 

Gee I thought my battery back up solar was expensive at $15,000

Edited January 23, 2023 by prktkljokr

[danny_galaga]

Who knows? A friend of mine is off-grid because it's too expensive to get mains power hooked up where he lives. And I know it wasn't cheap, but certainly not anywhere near 70000 USD 😲

More positive news on the small modular reactor front:

 

https://www.techspot.com/news/97343-first-small-modular-nuclear-reactor-has-approved-use.html

[CandyLand]

I would guess most people don't set out to spend the 70k, Most likely even thinking half that going into it, but get lured in by clever sales, easy credit, and all out lies, That "Sell your unused power" almost makes it sound like your going to not only get free energy but it will actually pay for itself and you will actually have an income net profit,  obviously not true, but on paper I bet it looks quite convincing...It kind of reminds me of the Tin men years ago pushing the aluminum siding.

Edited January 24, 2023 by CandyLand

[danny_galaga]

Well, like I say, my friend couldn't sell the power back if he wanted since it was too remote to economically connect to the grid! There's 'tin men' in ALL fields of sales. The name itself is a clue, right 😄

Turbine manufacturers need to lift their game:

 

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2023-01-23/wind-turbine-collapses-punctuate-green-power-growing-pains?leadSource=uverify wall

[Timbo]

Poor Mr Floppy 😞

[danny_galaga]

"The stone age did not end for lack of stone, and the Oil Age will end long before the world runs out of oil.” That sounds like the oath of environmentalists opposed to the use of fossil fuels. In fact, the prediction was made by Sheikh Zaki Yamani, a Saudi Arabian oil minister who shot to prominence as the face of the Arab oil embargo of 1973.

 

https://www.economist.com/culture/2023/01/25/how-much-innovation-is-necessary-to-see-off-fossil-fuels