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RIP Holden


Boots

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I actually dont know much about this, so forgive the stupid questions.. How will this affect Super Car racing? Will Holdens continue to be made off shore?

 

They'll be replaced by Opels with 4cyl and V6s both NA and turbo

 

the supercars will run the V6 twin turbo

 

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They'll be replaced by Opels with 4cyl and V6s both NA and turbo

 

the supercars will run the V6 twin turbo

 

that sucks, we have the ford mustangs and what ever Holden is going to import from the states to try and compete in the v8 market, so would have been great to have kept it V8's.

this is going tobe like the early 90's all over again with miss match models.

 

its surely going to hurt v8 supercars big time. which is sad

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that sucks, we have the ford mustangs and what ever Holden is going to import from the states, so would have been great to have kept it V8's.

this is going tobe like the early 90's all over again with miss match models.

 

its surely going to hurt v8 supercars big time. which is sad

 

As far as road cars go,word is they will bring over the Camaro to satisfy peoples V8 urges. HSV will do them too

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As far as road cars go,word is they will bring over the Camaro to satisfy peoples V8 urges. HSV will do them too

 

thanks

thats what i thought but wasnt 100% sure, Camaro v Mustang would be exciting enough not to have to go down the turbo 6cyl and 4cyl route.

 

It would be nice to see Aussie performance companies hsv and fpv putting their hands on those two cars and set them off against each other in a series, that would make better viewing

still could stay as v8 supercars.

 

Its a shame we wont ever see an FPV mustang battling it out with a HSV Camaro, was sad to see the end of FPV

Edited by jason1
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HSV's future business is left to right hand drive conversions actually and it isn't limiting itself to just GM products either.

 

They will be doing Dodge trucks as well as a few other trucks and cars.

 

There excellence in engineering is well recognized by may US companies wanting to bring in US made products to fill the gap left by Holden leaving.

 

HRT will continue in the sport and products will be sourced from around the GM World to race in "The Great Race". There are several overseas GM companies looking seriously at HRT helping to develop racing products for them to race in there home country including China.

 

Lang Lang proving ground will not be sold off and will continue to be the testing ground for all GM products sold here in Australia.

 

The GM Holden design team will not be broken up and will continue designing car to be sold here and overseas in the GM family.

 

While the next Commodore will not be available as a V8 or rear wheel drive, the V6 version under test is actually faster than the last SS Commodore and it is also an all wheel drive.

 

The non V6 next Commodore is a front wheel drive only and there is talk of an electric version using Tesla technology.

 

These exerts are from a number of "car experts" over the last couple of days I have heard .

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While the next Commodore will not be available as a V8 or rear wheel drive, the V6 version under test is actually faster than the last SS Commodore and it is also an all wheel drive.

Don't say that or we'll have a repeat of this incident

 

http://static1.squarespace.com/static/5507919de4b01b71a2856965/55c7f8c2e4b026a3afe81441/565281a2e4b027b5078f6e19/1473832153223/?format=1000w

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What?? None of that makes any sense.. Tesla has nothing to do with the inability for a global corporation to sustain a viable business in a country with a high standard of living/high wages and friendly import policies. Oh and global warming is hardly "bullshit" let alone a "fraud".

 

The point is Tesla electric cars fall into the luxury car bracket because of their price, so the Govt in their warm friendly green way are saying that the luxury car tax is an impediment to people buying electric cars.

My comment was purely about the scrapping of the luxury car tax as I quoted not about GMH ceasing production in Australia.

 

The planet has been cooling and warming for millions of years, remember the Ice Age. It's cyclic. In 1976 Time magazine ran an article backed by all the top scientist of the era proclaiming the Earth was going into another Ice Age...still waiting for that.

 

Why is it a fraud? It's unproven science, even our own B.O.M. admitted this year to fudging it's data to back this warming notion so who can you believe. I've lived in spitting distance from the ocean for 30 years and not seen increase in tides and this year was one of the coldest on record and plenty of rain thrown in.

 

If every one in Australia got rid of their vehicles, shot all their animals, stopped producing anything and didn't ever fart again what difference would it make to world emission overall? Climate scientists tell us the answer: 0.0001%. What Australia emits over a full 12 months is equal to one DAY of China's emissions. Rant over but just got my power bill and not laughing.

 

How can any company manufacture anything in Australia when energy prices are second to none in the world and supply is so bad that we're being offered cinema tickets to turn off air conditioners on hot days. Bullshit I still say but your opinion is yours.

Edited by Sade_Rock
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Don't say that or we'll have a repeat of this incident

 

http://static1.squarespace.com/static/5507919de4b01b71a2856965/55c7f8c2e4b026a3afe81441/565281a2e4b027b5078f6e19/1473832153223/?format=1000w

 

As for racing, there are many GM products using V8 power plants plus, since when did Nissan sell V8 powered products?.

 

As you can see there is nothing in the rules that states that car needs to be made by that company.

 

I'm expecting the next Commodore for racing to be "looking like" the next commodore but using a GM V8 and rear wheel drive. Remember, V8 Supercars "must' be rear wheel drive only and turbos are band.

 

If Nissan, Volvo and Mercedes were able to flex the rules, I see no reason why Ford and GM cannot flex the rules the same way.

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As for racing, there are many GM products using V8 power plants plus, since when did Nissan sell V8 powered products?.

 

 

Nissan have had v8s since the early 90s overseas I think. They put them in silvias and 180sx's as an engine swap these days. Also you have the Patrols

 

I reckon it's better having a large mixed field rather than just falcons and commodores.

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I reckon it's better having a large mixed field rather than just falcons and commodores.

 

Every one has their opinion on this, but Personally I stopped watching V8 super cars on introduction of these cars. But hey maybe the minute some one like me who likes the old ford v holden thing stopped watching a new volvo fan started watchin? I dont know

 

But I hate the idea of Sierra RS Cosworth days coming back, I like those cars but the cars were so miss matched in those days by being so different, and on car forums there is a tonne of concern about this happening again. v8 vs Turbo 4cyl vs turbo 6cyl is asking for miss matched racing as it did in the past

I could be wrong and if they are going down that route they have some very strict guidelines but it will take along time for them to get the balance right i would imagine.

 

I fully get why some one who isnt a ford or holden fan wanting to see other models battling it out, and So i guess there would be fans coming to supercars who like those other models and so maybe it could be successful as long as they can find good balance.

 

The Camaro and Mustang would be cool to watch and Im sure it would do well with the fans who currently love v8 supercars as ford V holden.

The ford and chev v8 power plants are just so good and can match each other so well with out one being so far in front. So it makes for good competition and why it has been good competition so far in V8 supercars to date

 

Well what ever way they go, the closure is a big spanner in the works for V8 supercars, Id hate to be the guy making the decisions on how they go forward with it. It could easily kill the series completely which would be a shame so I hope they can figure it out.

Edited by jason1
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you mean the fair work commission that was started and supported by unions? the same "independent" Union backed entente that cut weekend penalty rates, also the same unions that sold workers wages for political donations? Fair work is run by ex union officials.

 

Once upon a time unions had their place, now they are thugs and corrupt mob of a bastards.

 

You only have to do a quick search to see how the CFMEU held some big businesses to ransom for political donations, they bullied businesses to pay the union hundreds of thousands of dollars so the union wouldn't push for pay rises which would equal millions of dollars. Essentially the union took the money away from workers for those union officials to put in their pockets to run for government.

Mcdonalds workers wages is also one lot of wages that were negotiated low between the Unions and Fair work.

 

Not only that pricks spending union money on hookers and what ever else.

Oh and then you have the pricks standing out side the gates of a business threatening to rape those workers children who have decided to not picket and instead work.

The only thing unions are interested in these days is lining their pockets or helping them selves get into government.

You even had the unions backing the closure of a power plant that saw hundreds of their own members loose their jobs, because for some mysterious reason Unions seemed to start caring about Green energy targets more than the workers who worked there? I wonder why that is?

 

There was a major construction in Brisbane a few years ago where the CFMEU went on strike, and they used Mick Gatto as a "Mediator" lol

You only have todo a quick google search to see how extensive the Corruption is with in the unions.

Union members are being ripped off, businesses are being ripped off and union officials find them selves with heavy pockets and use it as a platform to get some sweet arse government job.

I wonder who those Ford and Holden workers feel about how their union priced them selves out of the market and out of a job, there was also claims that ford and Holden refused on a number of occasion to pay kickbacks to unions so they would forgo pay-rises, and in retaliation unions pushed for those payrises because those companies didnt agree to pay kickbacks.

I can go on all day about it.

 

and you should Look at the politics your union is playing, after all it is your money that is being spent.

At least you understood my first line in my post. FWC acts as a mediator to help each other resolve dissputes in all sorts of workplace matters. Let's not forget what unions were , they were people making a stand against their employer for better pay and conditions which is a basic right to this day.
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To all the "No Coal, Save The Earth Brigade". Turn off the ABC for one minute and have a read of this..

 

 

 

http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/blogs/andrew-bolt/new-coalfired-power-stations-world-621-australia-zero-now-understand/news-story/865d0daf16bfdbc4c8c399f8eea2a759

 

 

 

So while we pay through the nose for limited, unreliable new generation electricity, these countries are set to prosper with our cheap power, coal and jobs in the future.

 

While we dig up the coal, take it to the oceans, put it on ships and send it away so we can use that money to buy wind turbines, solar and batteries for our own power from these countries we are selling our coal to.

 

Who thought this idea right through?.

 

How many of you will look back in 10 years time when there are no jobs because all manufacturing has all gone, there isn't enough taxes being paid to have everyone work for the public service or government jobs and we are dependent on countries like Indonesia to send a bit of foreign aid our way when they see fit?.

 

There is no money left and no one will "lend us more money" to repair or replace the then obsolete wind turbines and solar farms we foolishly subsidized for years costs billions of borrowed money from overseas countries and all coal power plants, only in this country, have all been shut down.

 

Rolling blackouts are the norm and the great NBN we were told we needed is absolutely useless because no body considered what happens when there is no power in your area to power it.

 

Mobile phones don't work because the mobile tower backup batteries were never intended to supply power for them for days on end when there is no power.

 

Along with no internet and a reliable phone service, because the power is so limited because everyone except the politicians seemed to understand when it is stinking hot summer in Australia, there is no wind anyway to make any power or considered it needs regular replacement.

 

No power also means no water pumps to pump water to the local water storage tanks in the suburbs from the storage dams so water prices also go through the roof.

 

Because power is so unreliable, no one dares store meat or frozen goods in refrigerators much like Indonesia and parts of Asia today, it just isn't worth the risk of loosing it all with the rolling blackouts.

 

We have two choices as I see it. We build new coal plants immediately or turn to nuclear immediately like Paris and France are is where we stupidly signed our countries sovereignty away at.

 

When you consider what "could be", are you so interested in being one of the only countries crippling itself and it's people to make the world feel better?.

 

If we are so interested in "saving the planet" why would we not be considering slowing down immigration into the driest country that not only has limited water but soon, limited electricity and be pushing for the world to slow down on human population in general?.

 

I'm sure the impact "for the planet" would be much better than the ridiculous token gesture Australia is offering right now.

 

What if we simply stopped exporting coal to India and China and continued to use the 1/400th of that exported for our own use so we actually "helped the planet" and we, the people lucky enough to be born with this natural wealth were among the limited ones to use coal and possibly use this natural wealth to help feed the planet.

 

China and India among others would have no choice but to "develop new generation power solutions" with there massive populations and now large educated numbers rather than us, the ones in the driest country with the smallest population, with the highest debt left to develop it ourselves when we don't actually have a need to develop such alternatives.

 

I suppose my big question is, "why are we doing all the heavy lifting to save the planet" when it is quite apparent our massively over populated neighbours and larger populated countries are doing nearly nothing and certainly not crippling themselves.

 

Just remember, there are only 24 million of us and we contribute less than 1% of "the world's problem" some are so hell bent on trying to fix for the world in one generation at a crippling cost to our way of life.

 

Thanks for allowing me to have a rant on something totally unrelated to Holden's demise.

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they were people making a stand against their employer for better pay and conditions which is a basic right to this day.

 

yes I know what unions are supposed tobe about, Its what unions are really about these days that is the problem.

Edited by jason1
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To all the union bashers keep on bashing. See what nurses do in patient care but do you think they get paid enough? They are majority unionised. Unions are a crucial link in industrial relations. My trade is union backed and if it wasn't for that I wouldn't enjoy the work life balance and never to be offered conditions that many employers won't offer. I don't like to concern myself too much with unions political agenda's but you don't need to be part of a union to experience this. So remove all penalty rates for public holidays and weekends and no overtime just a flat rate . Then work on the fair work Act and minimum wage rates and enjoy the escalating cost of living while others, who exploit young teens, migrants and unskilled workers who don't believe a worker has a voice line their pockets.

 

Individual work places have there own experience with the unions and like anything there are good and bad people out there.

The manufacturing (now ex) boss for Australia personally thanked the unions among others for their help and cooperation throughout the last and very tough 4 years.

When you have in excess of 2000 employees just on one of two manufacturing sites it is much easier for the company to do collective bargaining with a union than individuals.

Without union support it would have been impossible to negotiate the pay and benefit cuts that all employees agreed to in an effort to save Holden, then to have Joe Hockey mouth off and ruin the chances was devastating for everyone.

Think about it for a minute, the unions collect fees for every employee so they are going to do their upmost to keep the business alive, if you want to blame one person blame Tony Abbot and his hatred of unions and the middle class because that is what resulted in the closure.

Don't forget the thousands of employees that worked hard to achieve some of the highest quality standards in ANY GM plant world wide and THE number 1 direct run rate (cars built without any rework required) in the world and to top it all off the number 1 cost proficiency improvement world wide.

 

- - - Updated - - -

 

Wonder if the luxury car tax will disappear now that there is no need to protect local manufacturers

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Aussie Arcade

 

That will not disappear as it gets charged on Holdens too, in fact any car over the $62000 or so threshold

 

- - - Updated - - -

 

Hydrogen. .... the most abundent and cleanest fuel in the universe, and no one seems to want it as an alternative. Oh.... is that because there is no big profits in it for the money mogals.

 

Sent from my SM-G900I using Aussie Arcade mobile app

Hindenburg_disaster.jpg.b4406a6743ee150774d11848b65eed09.jpg :)

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@Boots I dont get why its any governments problem, like any business if people arent buying your product then it goes under.

Its a consumer problem in my books, if people wanted to see Aussie cars made in Australia they needed to buy Aussie cars.

 

Why should the government give billions of dollars of tax payers money to keep something afloat that hasnt shown any signs of getting better after two decades of bail outs?

 

Every car I have owned has been Australian made every single car my entire life. the only way to keep things going is to buy Australian made and if people arent buying it well it isnt going to survive, thats the choice consumers made when buying something and there is no way the government should force some one to buy something or should bail something out for decades.

 

Id rather see that money spent on other things. And the only thing a business should ask the government for is to stay the hell out of their affairs not interfere.

 

If you like Aussie businesses to survive put your money where your mouth is and buy Aussie, we cant expect to not do that but then expect the government to pay for something no one is buying. we expect the government to take the blame for the fact Aussies arent buying Aussie cars instead of taking the blame on our selves for buying over seas shit.

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@Boots I dont get why its any governments problem, like any business if people arent buying your product then it goes under.

Its a consumer problem in my books, if people wanted to see Aussie cars made in Australia they needed to buy Aussie cars.

 

Why should the government give billions of dollars of tax payers money to keep something afloat that hasnt shown any signs of getting better after two decades of bail outs?

 

Every car I have owned has been Australian made every single car my entire life. the only way to keep things going is to buy Australian made and if people arent buying it well it isnt going to survive, thats the choice consumers made when buying something and there is no way the government should force some one to buy something or should bail something out for decades.

 

Id rather see that money spent on other things. And the only thing a business should ask the government for is to stay the hell out of their affairs not interfere.

 

If you like Aussie businesses to survive put your money where your mouth is and buy Aussie, we cant expect to not do that but then expect the government to pay for something no one is buying. we expect the government to take the blame for the fact Aussies arent buying Aussie cars instead of taking the blame on our selves for buying over seas shit.

 

It's got nothing to do with bail outs at all, Holden's always made plenty of profit except for a period in the 80's after they dropped the Kingswood and Falcon swept up the large car sales.

In fact at that time Holden's was as close as ever to closing but were bailed out by GM in the USA.

 

What all governments do is pay the car companies to manufacture in their country because they know the benefits they bring, don't think of it as a bail out but more of a bribe.

There are a few reasons why car companies build in particular countries

1. A very large population to market too.

2. Tariffs that make it uneconomical to import cars

3. Co-investment plans that sweeten the deal for car makers.

4. It's the company's home turf.

 

It's very nice, warm and fuzzy idea to have a free market but when you have a very small population like Australia there is no real encouragement for car makers to manufacture here.

Much like the green energy debate, sending our country broke so we can set a good example to other countries who don't give a toss doesn't seem to work too well.

 

In fact Commodore was the top selling car in Australia for 15 years straight before the GFC.

Holden's were making 800 cars a day over three shifts, they couldn't make enough.

 

I don't know if there was any co-investment for the whitegoods or TV makers back when they were here but by comparison a car is a very high value complicated item that generates a lot of cash flow in and out of the country, it also creates a large technical engineering workforce that filters out into other businesses.

We can't all be baristas

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Don't forget the thousands of employees that worked hard to achieve some of the highest quality standards in ANY GM plant world wide and THE number 1 direct run rate (cars built without any rework required) in the world

Where did you see that info? Didn't have much luck googling it.

 

I worked at HSV for roughly 5 years and quality issues were a regular occurrence with the cars arriving from Holden. Mostly drips and uneven paint finish,panel gaps,interior plastic trims and now and then bodgy wiring *probably a new guy on the line* :)

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Where did you see that info? Didn't have much luck googling it.

 

I worked at HSV for roughly 5 years and quality issues were a regular occurrence with the cars arriving from Holden. Mostly drips and uneven paint finish,panel gaps,interior plastic trims and now and then bodgy wiring *probably a new guy on the line* :)

 

This has been happening for the last few years as these standards had to be achieved to be able to gain licence to send the Chevrolet SS and the police cars to the USA.

Just wait until you see the quality of the American built cars, then you will definitely appreciate the Commodore quality levels.

Not sure about the wiring problem but the looms came from a supplier and were just assembled into the car at Elizabeth.

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@Boots I cant say I agree with you on that, but thats ok your opinion is no less important than mine and so we can have a debate respectfully about those opinions.

 

But I cant move away from the idea of if we arent buying Australian goods then its only our selves to blame, same goes for buying local from the small guy, we only have our selves to blame when we find our selves with empty shops on the mainstreet of our town, or every shop only filled with multinational companies.

 

consumers always need to take responsibility for local jobs when buying something.

Governments cant come along and make tariffs and that sort of thing to force us to buy things, especially when there are already plenty of incentives we over look when buying local products, eg Local jobs and our own economy.

 

While I hate the idea of those workers loosing their jobs, we see thousands of small businesses, small manufacturing businesses fail in this country each year with just as many jobs being lost monthly that dont even get a mention or no sort of government handouts.

People need to buy local if they want jobs for their kids,

BUT government should limit their interference with your business which from my experience is essential, and if i was to say which one of our govs from our three levels of government in this country, number one and by far the worst interfering government is council, far more than any federal government.

 

back to holden

If what you are saying is true that holden was making profit and could stand on their own two feet but needed the government to bride them to stay, well they are a multinational company after all, and less of a reason to give them money tax payers hard earned money so they have fatter pockets.

 

At the end of the day it is and has always has been upto our selves as consumers to where we put our money when we buy our crap. if you buy from multinationals it goes over seas, if you buy from the small guy it stays here and creates jobs.

As long as the government stays out of your business then thats the best thing a government can do for a company.

I just cant stand bailouts or subsidies to try and prop up business especially if its making some guy overseas richer.

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