Jump to content
IGNORED

It's Time To Build A Homebrew.


Recommended Posts

@kress ...What if the drop targets were replaced with stand up targets. Target A gives 2X, B gives 3X, C gives 4X and target D gives 5X.

 

Target C is made and I'm presuming it will score nothing as it is out of order.

Target B is made and I'm presuming it will score nothing as it is out of order.

Next target A is made and it will score 2X.

Will the machine only go to 2X or will it remember target B and C have already been made and go straight up to 4X or if not what if target B and C are remade now that 2X has already been made, will hitting target B again raise that to 3X and if target C is then hit again will it go up to 4X?

 

This is what I would expect to be the behavior. Can you verify this operation?.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 106
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Top Posters In This Topic

Posted Images

Each target should score once (1000 points say ) regardless of which order its hit.

Then it goes.... lets say you hit them backwards D-C-B-A

When the A is hit finally it will pay 5X But nothing b4 that .

Hit B-A 3X

Hit B-C-A 4X

Hit D-B-A 3X then C 5X

etc...

 

SCORES AND FEATURES ( X , EXTRA ,SPECS ) are treated separately in the program.

IF A > score once > 2X

IF B > score once > 3X

IF C > score once > 4X

IF D > score once > 5X

 

IF A + B + C + D > reset bank

Edited by kress
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Got the design of the low profile slingshot assembly sorted today after making a prototype. Pretty much what I need yet simple enough to build but not break, I hope. Best of all not one hard to get or impossible to get part.

 

Only 35mm deep, the coil mounted sideways is the lowest hanging part under the playfield. 190mm long and 40mm wide. Plunger stroke is 20mm but can be shortened by using a longer plunger.

 

I put in two extra mechanism mount holes that the original didn't have because one of the problems with the original Bally design was with only 4 screws, the mech would loosen off and in time, finally snapping the screws. I'm hoping with 4 screws and two spiral bolts, spiral bolts under the slingshot plastics, I won't face this old Bally problem.

 

Actuator arm is a 1/4" high tensile bolt. Every other part should break before that actuator arm fails. It is tapped into the plunger and the plunger itself was made from 7/16" BMS bar as recommended.

 

Arm also has a rubber tube on it where it contacts the slingshot rubber. This is to protect the inside of the slingshot rubber but mainly to make the slingshot operation less predictable. The ball being hit by the slingshot rubber, the ball will perform like a normal slingshot but if the ball is hit by the slingshot rubber where the arm rubber hits as well, the ball "should" be hit much harder. That's the theory anyway.

 

Some pictures of the prototype...

 

LzDoMV2.jpg

 

sH4tRfd.jpg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

A Quick Quiz On A Part Of The Design

 

Amazing how the drive down the farm gets the imagination going on this HomeBrew. Maybe it's the 3 hours in the truck by myself allows the mind to wonder.

The idea always has been to climb to all the playfields in this machine design because you need to score shots that are only on one or two of the playfields.

You need to score curtain targets on the lower playfield to "open the path" to the next playfield and the one ball is used on all the playfields so the ball needs to travel higher, that is the alure to this style of machine, making the ball climb, the same ball and even if you don't get a free game, you can say you made it to the 2nd or 3rd playfield so some reward for all players and another lure to get people to play the machine.

 

My idea up until this weekend was the ball raises up a ramp at the side of the machine and you, through very well placed flipper shot/ shots up the ramp, the ball makes it up to the next playfield. The two major problems with this idea are the ramp needed to be fairly wide and each flipper used on the ramp would have a very narrow sweet spot to get the ball to go exactly on the right path to make it up.

 

The first problem is how wide the ramp needs to be to make it obvious exactly what you need to do and the width of a ramp above the playfield is going to obscure the view of the lower playfield even if I make it from glass as intended.

 

The second problem is this machine is supposed to be suitable for all players to at least have the ability to get the ball to the upper playfields, not just the best, most experienced players the industry has to offer.

 

What I'm thinking a "better way" to get the ball upstairs may be using a ball kickback mech like those used on Getaway's right outer lane, FirePower same lane etc. A simple coil on a plate with a plunger with a nylon tip in it that smacks the ball hard away in a relatively straight line. The relatively straight line is made perfectly straight by using rails so now the ball will differently go in the right direction up the path raising up to the next playfield but that is just to easy for every player so, now this is where I'm after some input on design. (The moving block).

 

There is a moving block on the rail. The firing of the ball from the ball kickback mech is controlled by the player using that side flipper button so you control the time the ball is fired and you must time it so it misses the moving block further along the track and goes right up the ramp.

You get the timing wrong and the ball hits the block and that is the end of your attempt, your back on the lower playfield trying to enable the shot again. You don't loose the ball, you simply need to enable the shot again.

 

Now the moving block. This is what I'm stuck on.

A diverter would be simple.

 

Something like a D shaped wheel that spins around at a set speed and only on the flat side can the ball completely miss the turning block.

 

I have thought of a target that swings.

 

A drop target that raises and lowers on a cam.

 

Has anyone got any other suggestions?. Something that is very obvious you need to get the timing right or the ball will not make the shot you are trying to do is exactly what I'm after but the design needs to be able to be hit by a pretty fast moving ball as well.

 

I can have light up inserts saying what you need to do but I think just making it so obvious what you need to do is the better way. (Think Putt Putt Golf simple).

I don't want to make it hard to understand what you need to do to get to the next playfield, the challenge is only supposed to be in the timing you hit the button to get the ball to the next level.

 

Any suggestions for a "moving block"?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

interesting idea though sounding it might reduce some of your player range as it sounds like it will take some skill and timing, to keep it fun for some people you also need that "hit and hope" approach and let the target be the skill when up there and not the trying to get up there.

 

all that said, without knowing the theme and the layout it is hard to visual the size of the 2 playfields

 

pinball circus is a game of multiple playfields and climbing up, but apparently people like to try the game but happy to walk away after a couple of games as it all falls back on skill and timing

 

here is a concept for you - have a ramp that could be a regular width - about 1 1/2 ball widths on a steepish curve with a lean to one side and takes a strong shot to get the ball up there, and if you do get it up there everything is 2x scoring, and then say half way up the ramp on the curve on the low side of the lean is a ramp exit to a ball kicker (similar to what you designed a few posts back) that the ball drops into a launcher when shoots the ball up there but everything is standard 1x scoring. An add on to this is if you have a super strong shot up the ramp it continues straight to a well placed target only accessible from the ramp and this awards you 3x scoring up there.

 

Therefore the skill is to have a strong well timed shot to get better scores while the everyday average player can still get up there using the ball kicker and have fun but not as score rewarding.

 

just ideas

Link to comment
Share on other sites

interesting idea though sounding it might reduce some of your player range as it sounds like it will take some skill and timing, to keep it fun for some people you also need that "hit and hope" approach and let the target be the skill when up there and not the trying to get up there.

 

I went away from flippers to get the ball up higher because I don't want it becoming like the upper shot on Stern's Simpson's Party and make it more like the cannon shot on T2 or AC/DC but instead of the cannon moving, the block is moving. The block by the way is not what you want to hit. You want to get the ball past the block.

 

pinball circus is a game of multiple playfields and climbing up, but apparently people like to try the game but happy to walk away after a couple of games as it all falls back on skill and timing

 

Pinball Circus was made in a Mortal Kombat video cabinet. I think the playfields, all of them are simply to small. My middle playfield can be roughly the size of Pinball Circus' main playfield. The lower playfield is the same size as a standard playfield. Honestly I think all the multi playfield machines all have to smaller alternative playfields and they had to be small because they all covered the main playfield. My cabinet design allows for much larger upper playfields that are far less claustrophobic, don't obscure the lower playfields and this allows for flippers with good strength rather than weaker which effects accuracy in your shots.

 

here is a concept for you - have a ramp that could be a regular width - about 1 1/2 ball widths on a steepish curve with a lean to one side and takes a strong shot to get the ball up there, and if you do get it up there everything is 2x scoring, and then say half way up the ramp on the curve on the low side of the lean is a ramp exit to a ball kicker (similar to what you designed a few posts back) that the ball drops into a launcher when shoots the ball up there but everything is standard 1x scoring. An add on to this is if you have a super strong shot up the ramp it continues straight to a well placed target only accessible from the ramp and this awards you 3x scoring up there.

 

I was looking at using Flash Gordon or Spy Hunter's game rules to do exactly that. 2X scoring and 3X scoring for the upper playfields but decided I could simply have high scoring features instead. Also I was looking at doing things like on the lower playfield, to get 2X multiplier may take 4 targets to get knocked down to get, on an upper playfield only one target needs to be hit to get the same 2X multiplier award and that is your reward for getting to the upper playfields, easier ways to get what is required.

Therefore the skill is to have a strong well timed shot to get better scores while the everyday average player can still get up there using the ball kicker and have fun but not as score rewarding.

 

just ideas

 

That is the hard part. Making something that is interesting for the good player but interesting enough for the first time player. I honestly think there is enough out there already for the established player and what is required is a machine to draw in more new players into pinball. I'm actually thinking the reward for the good players is how many times they go through all the levels, a bit like "loop champion"

Link to comment
Share on other sites

ok, I have a better idea of what you are wanting to do now

 

so a number of playfields but each a reasonable size, what is the rough planned distance between each playfield?

 

sounds like it wouldn't be a regular size pinball

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Got the design of the low profile slingshot assembly sorted today after making a prototype. Pretty much what I need yet simple enough to build but not break, I hope. Best of all not one hard to get or impossible to get part.

 

Only 35mm deep, the coil mounted sideways is the lowest hanging part under the playfield. 190mm long and 40mm wide. Plunger stroke is 20mm but can be shortened by using a longer plunger.

 

I put in two extra mechanism mount holes that the original didn't have because one of the problems with the original Bally design was with only 4 screws, the mech would loosen off and in time, finally snapping the screws. I'm hoping with 4 screws and two spiral bolts, spiral bolts under the slingshot plastics, I won't face this old Bally problem.

 

Actuator arm is a 1/4" high tensile bolt. Every other part should break before that actuator arm fails. It is tapped into the plunger and the plunger itself was made from 7/16" BMS bar as recommended.

 

Arm also has a rubber tube on it where it contacts the slingshot rubber. This is to protect the inside of the slingshot rubber but mainly to make the slingshot operation less predictable. The ball being hit by the slingshot rubber, the ball will perform like a normal slingshot but if the ball is hit by the slingshot rubber where the arm rubber hits as well, the ball "should" be hit much harder. That's the theory anyway.

 

Some pictures of the prototype...

 

LzDoMV2.jpg

 

sH4tRfd.jpg

 

Watch out for the open spring end against the thread. Might pay to install a neat fitting washer onto the plunger there to provide a face for the tail of the spring. Could end up spiraling around the thread or/and damaging the spring...

 

Neat idea :023:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Watch out for the open spring end against the thread. Might pay to install a neat fitting washer onto the plunger there to provide a face for the tail of the spring. Could end up spiraling around the thread or/and damaging the spring...

 

Neat idea :023:

 

Well spotted. It was nearly the end of a coil liner as I didn't have a suitably sized washer but I left it out. Still in the search for a smallish washer.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

ok, I have a better idea of what you are wanting to do now

 

so a number of playfields but each a reasonable size, what is the rough planned distance between each playfield?

 

sounds like it wouldn't be a regular size pinball

 

It was baseball machines that gave me the idea of how to best allow for multi playfields.

 

This machine called Williams '1957 Baseball Deluxe' is quite close but the glass needs to be on more of an angle and the glass come closer to the front of the cabinet but it was this cabinet design that inspired me originally.

 

image-6.jpg

 

This machine is much closer but again, the glass needs to be higher at the back and more forward. At the back where the head angles forward is pretty damm close to the correct glass height at the back I need. Machine would be more the length of a standard pinball as well and the head not nearly as fat although I do like that head design and I am trying to make this machine not look exactly like a pinball. I figure something different in appearance will draw attention. It simply isn't needed and would be adding weight and weight is already an enemy with 3 playfields inside.

 

image-9.jpg

 

The normal playfield will be at around the same depth in the cabinet as the SlugFest by the way to allow from the two upper playfields. I would say around 200-250mm apart but as you can appreciate, the closer they are together, the shorter in length they need to be. the higher the back of the glass, the more space between each playfield and also the longer they can be.

 

The first machine, I really love the glass panels on the sides so don't count out something like them being in the final design.;)

 

You should be starting to get a pretty good picture of what I'm designing now aye?.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

ok, I gotcha now and understand where you are wanting to go and like the idea of cannon shooting the ball and dodging the block, makes sense now

 

Dennis Nordman recently did a pitch and bat with a nice looking cabinet for some inspiration

https://www.thisweekinpinball.com/zombie-league-stars-star-baseball-machines-shipping/

 

you could go 2 levels in the cabinet and 3rd on the backbox

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yer the glass side windows are a must I think. They make the cabinet and sort of lend themselves for others to view the lower playfields from beside the machine. The player doesn't have problems seeing all the playfields because he is standing back further allowing him to see between them but looking at the machine from the side, you will only see the top of the exposed playfields.

The cannon idea is so a thinner ramp can be used and that ramp goes from the apron to the back of the cabinet so it will cover the view for the player. The block is simply to add a challenge to this part of the game play. No challenge and I may as well use a ball elevator idea. Not a fan of that idea for the lower to middle playfield but may use something similar to go from the middle to the top playfield.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 2 weeks later...

Been designing some memory drop targets lately. Looks like I will go with Bally's 8 Ball Deluxe as the program for this HomeBrew because it seems pretty much packed with interesting features including the memory drop targets.

The drops I intend on breaking up into multiple single or double target banks and to do this I will use a modified versions of William's SS individual or twin target banks.

I know Williams never made a twin bank but the mounting plate of the assemblies are super easy to make.

 

I'm going the William's route here because they are pretty easy to get and make parts for but they are also very reliable mechanically, just not electrically but I will use the mod I come up with some months ago to take care of that.

 

Part of the design is wider targets as well. Seeing as I intend on making the targets and modifying the banks, why not make them about 10mm wider as well.

The original single Williams mounting plates just needed 6 holes drilled wider apart to allow for the wider targets. The plastic target guides are original parts. New metal strips have to be made with wider hole spacings and the PC board will be my own design.

 

As for the memory drop coils and assemblies, EBay come to the rescue. Something like this I intend on using.

s-l1600.jpg

 

Just need to make a mounting bracket to attach this to the drop target bracket itself.

 

24 volt is correct. I will be using 24vDC on the Bally solenoid circuits rather than Bally's original 48vDC.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yer I was looking at servos as the memory drop but found the coils for pretty much the same price as the servos but they don't need a driver circuit each servo. Servos were nearly being used to reset the target as well. I did have one servo doing both the reset and memory, spin one way 180 degrees to reset and reverse 180 degrees to drop the target. Servo arm had a spring sticking off it so it would lift the target then bend the spring till it flicked past. Reverse the servo and the spring pushes the target backwards and again flicks past.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I was looking at using these open cradle relay assemblies as the memory coil at one stage.

4402201.jpg

 

It is basically the internals of a car Bosch relay with a big brass plate that moves about 3mm when the coil is energized and returns under spring tension.

Pretty similar to how Williams drop the target down on T2 etc if I connect an arm to the brass plate. Problem is would it have enough strength to knock the target down reliably?. It is much smaller than a coil though but the coil creates a lot more pressure to definitely drop the target.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Twin Drop Target Bank

 

I may have no money as we save for two operations I need but I still make parts, plus it keeps my mind off worrying when I keep my hands busy.

 

The design of the machine calls for two twin drop target banks and seeing as Williams never made them, I'll make them I figured.

 

Need some suitable metal to make the main assembly from, what have I got?. An offcut piece of pearling from the farm house looks ideal.

 

CmUxJD4.jpg

 

Cut two pieces.

 

Pwkzgjc.jpg

 

Trim them to size, drill some holes on the drill press and slot them out.

 

yQS1xDy.jpg

 

And a test assembly to make sure I got all those holes exactly where they needed to be.

 

nDjmWkC.jpg

 

All looks OK. I need to source some material for the targets but I'm after something a bit different. Of cause they will be LED lit but I want something else a bit different. I want the target lit one colour but the symbols on the targets a totally different colour both lit up by LEDs.

 

I've got a fair idea how to do it, just need to source some stainless steel strip the width of the drop targets. Yes, steel in these targets but only 1mm thick.

 

Also need to make up the PC boards that go on the back of the target bank. Looking forward to designing those because I can fit the reed switches exactly how I want rather than having to work with what Williams made. Board also can have LEDs fitted to it.

 

Anyway, that's what I'm up to and what is planned.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 6 months later...

Thought it high time to give this thread a bump. I stick by making a HomeBrew can't be rushed especially when I'm trying to do something so different, designing and making totally unseen before mechanisms.

 

What I'm looking at now is a bank of swing targets. Bally did something very similar called "Flyaway Targets" on only a handfull of machines. Speakeasy, Speakeasy 4 and Grand Slam seen here....

 

image-3.jpg

 

The Bally version works slightly different to what I have planned. There targets only score in one direction and physically latch up the target when hit. What I'm thinking is mine will score in both directions and not latch up. The ball strikes a target one way and it scores however, if the ball comes through the other way it scores a different value even though the same target was hit.

 

The main advantage I see with these hanging target banks is they don't alter the balls direction and take no speed off the ball unlike a standup target or normal drop target banks

 

How I want to use my version of this target bank on the playfield is not a direct flipper shot. You shot into a slingshot, facing the opposite way to a normally placed slingshot. This slingshot fires the ball approximately 90 degrees across the playfield, through the hanging targets, hits an equally angled sling shot that fires the ball 90 degrees back to the flippers.

 

Going through the hanging targets scores the value of the target you hit but still requires a shot on the same target in the reverse direction as well as the remaining targets. Shooting either sling shot at different locations on it's kicking rubber face determines which target of the 5 in the bank you score.

 

The idea is to create exactly what rebound shots do on a pool table but the sling shots are there to speed the ball up as well.

 

The hanging target bank is obviously mounted north/south to the playfield in the middle with the rebound sling shot mechs facing the flippers at a 45 degree angle.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The Playfield Pitch Elevator Mechanism

 

Been holding this one close to my chest but time to get some feedback on it I think. This mech is designed to increase the playfield's pitch as the game proceeds. The front of the playfield stays at it's set position and the back of the playfield elevates in increments as a means to increase the game's difficulty.

 

This mech is my biggest attempt yet to "make pinball great again". While pinball is great, we need to acknowledge unless new, younger players are drawn into playing, pinball is living on borrowed time. Up until now, you have had the choice, make the machine's playfield pitch to suit the learner or make it to suit the player. I believe this mechanism solves both needs offering both a benign angle at the start of the game that is more suited to the learner and less experienced player but as the player advances through the game, the playfield's pitch increases increasing the ball speed and naturally, the games difficulty.

 

The other benefit this mechanism offers for all players, a machine that constantly changes it's shot angles because as the pitch angle changes, this effects all the shots a player makes very discretely but still quite noticeable. This changing of the playing conditions as the game proceeds should keep the "player" quality player interested as it will extend the time before a player gets bored as the shots vary.

 

I'm thinking to exploit this feature to the max, levels are introduced. You start at level 1, ( level 1 being the lowest pitch angle), and through playing the game you complete tasks that result in the elevator rising to the next level. These levels are displayed so what level you get to becomes a game within a game.

 

The level also adjusts other features on the game such as playfield scoring, extra balls and specials. I'm thinking at set levels, playfield scoring increases, extra balls become available as well as specials awards. This is to encourage players to elevate the angle and through faster scoring, get to higher scores and the other rewards.

 

There is however a tradeoff I think is quite just. I'm intending on having a post between the flippers. This post is not a full sized post like used on machines like Bally's 6 Million Dollar Man or the small mini post. It is the size in between so while protecting the flipper gap, it won't stop the ball from exiting but go a long way to aiding learner pinball players. As the pitch level increases, this post disappears and doesn't come back.

 

Another part of the tradeoff is as the level increases, More "Gobble Holes" are exposed. As I'm a believer outlanes are an unfair way of loosing a ball, I'm reintroducing the Gobble hole feature. A gobble hole is way to loose the ball through a bad placed shot. If you stupidly place a shot at a gobble hole when it is exposed, you loose your ball. The ball travels from the gobble hole directly to the outhole and your ball is done.

Your bad shooting just cost you the ball, not luck of the draw like an outlane does.

 

The center post disappearing and more gobble holes being exposed as the playfield level increases are both methods I'm using to increase the difficulty of the machine as you proceed. I'm hoping these approaches will enable me to make a machine suitable and appealing to the leaner as well as the "player".

 

Well there's a bit there to digest. I hope I have explained it well enough for all to understand.

 

Now I'm REAL interested in hearing your feedback on this combination of features I think will be beneficial to pinball as a whole.

 

Feedback is what I'm after. Negative or positive but please explain why you think that way rather than just stupid idea or great ideas. Variations to the designs can be made and I'm guided by your feedback.

 

D.O.T.F..............Defender Of The Faith.

Edited by Autosteve
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
 Share

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...