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Battle Pinny Update. Question: When is a Relay not a Relay ? Ans: When its an Arc Welder !!!!! :o

I've had fun making a suitable power supply to run all the magnets and coils. good news is , I have succeeded, bad news is, maybe the power supply is a bit too good !. The old power supply would run the magnet OK off the relay contact. I tested the new power supply, I pressed the magnet activation switch, the magnet grabbed the ball, then WOULD'NT let it go ! My spider senses tingled and I ran across the shed to turn off the power to the pinny. ( really need to have that switch a bit closer )

I lifted up the playfield to find the relay melted :059: But why? it worked fine before? So i checked all the wiring , all good...so I fired up the high voltage and checked it around the pinny, all good... So I pressed the magnet switch, it worked fine, then the relay energised, the magnet fired up, then I let the button go. Then I was rewarded with a might purdy Green Arc ! That was NOT going out ! So I ran again for the off switch.

Why is this so? The flyback diode on the coil is fine :unsure...The answer is, that I have now got a very nice high power switch mode supply running the pinny coils. The air gap in the relay is not sufficient to open off the current to the magnet ( 9amps ) The supply then happily supply's more amps to overcome the air gap and keep the arc going !!!! This then nicely melts the relay in no time flat.

Solution is to make a nice solid state drive to drive the magnet of a 5VDC TTL signal. oh if you guys have any nice circuits for this, please let me know, or I will just copy the bally Williams circuit that does this... Hope you like the picture, a relay had to die for it !

Arc.thumb.jpg.780cb4af9de36d132dae579158eddb66.jpg

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Battle Pinny Update. Question: When is a Relay not a Relay ? Ans: When its an Arc Welder !!!!! :o

I've had fun making a suitable power supply to run all the magnets and coils. good news is , I have succeeded, bad news is, maybe the power supply is a bit too good !. The old power supply would run the magnet OK off the relay contact. I tested the new power supply, I pressed the magnet activation switch, the magnet grabbed the ball, then WOULD'NT let it go ! My spider senses tingled and I ran across the shed to turn off the power to the pinny. ( really need to have that switch a bit closer )

I lifted up the playfield to find the relay melted :059: But why? it worked fine before? So i checked all the wiring , all good...so I fired up the high voltage and checked it around the pinny, all good... So I pressed the magnet switch, it worked fine, then the relay energised, the magnet fired up, then I let the button go. Then I was rewarded with a might purdy Green Arc ! That was NOT going out ! So I ran again for the off switch.

Why is this so? The flyback diode on the coil is fine :unsure...The answer is, that I have now got a very nice high power switch mode supply running the pinny coils. The air gap in the relay is not sufficient to open off the current to the magnet ( 9amps ) The supply then happily supply's more amps to overcome the air gap and keep the arc going !!!! This then nicely melts the relay in no time flat.

Solution is to make a nice solid state drive to drive the magnet of a 5VDC TTL signal. oh if you guys have any nice circuits for this, please let me know, or I will just copy the bally Williams circuit that does this... Hope you like the picture, a relay had to die for it !

[ATTACH=CONFIG]88596[/ATTACH]

 

Ah yes...you can't switch a relay off with a dc level above 30 volts. AC only above this point to allow a zero crossing.

Pretty lights though..

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  • 4 weeks later...

Battle Pinny HELP ! need some electronics advice !

 

Hi All, I have been diligently trying to get the magnet coil control circuit working. Unfortunately the bloody TIP36C transistor is somehow latching on, which is a very very bad thing ( much burny smells lately ). The problem is that the circuit works fine with a low current device attached , but once I load it up with a 4.6 Ohm Magnet coil all hell breaks loose.....it stays latched on, so 50V at 9.6 amps is lots of heat and damage.

 

So if we have any nice electronic engineers out there, please have a look at the circuit and let me know where you think I've stuffed up.

 

Basically the Picaxe chip turns on the magnet for a maximum time of 4 seconds, the will not energise it again for another 6 seconds ( allows a bit of cooling time, plus a bloody great fan cooled heat sink on the magnet )

The Pixace output drives the Opto Coupler, that then drives the transistor array. All good in theory, but not 100% in Practice :(

 

So any advice gladly welcomed. Oh I also was thinking that i might have to up the TIP36C transistor. This is used in most pinny high power solenoid circuits, but these are usually a very sort burst of high power.

 

207142524_MagnetButtonCircuit.thumb.jpg.cd942238ab7dcb5c07562d17553e44be.jpg

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500 watts Transistor ?

 

Your right Kress, I think that's my problem is that they can get away with the short burst on magnets with the TIP36C. They also use the fliptronic board to run the agents ( theatre Of Magic ) But they use a quick burst of high current, then pegs it back at a lower current, thus not letting the transistor go into thermal runaway.....I can get 250 watt transistors from jaycar, maybe run three in parallel ? Ah more research and development me thinks ! Maybe I need a spinning Vogon to fix it ! :)

 

Oh just been looking, could I use a BUZ71 Mofset !

Edited by thegrunta666
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Buz71 150 watt? Buz11 is a 300 watt unit from memory..? Plus side of fets is you can parallel them up without ballast resistance. The drive circuit is also somewhat simplified needing little

more than a cmos buffer to saturate them....I think I might go shopping as well !

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I understood almost none of that Swahili except for the TIP36C but I'm in awe of what you guys can achieve when you put you electronic prowess into it.

 

I still have a freight train running through my head from Pinfest last year;)

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You were front row and centre for that show..! I can still hear it too and I only had a couple of games!

 

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

LOL, yep. Mark and I have the same feeling every time we are stopped at the level crossing at Woy Woy for the Sydney express. Instant deja vu.
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  • 2 weeks later...

If at first you dont succeed, try try again......After numerous discussions with @kress, I have come up with a Mosfet driver board that might work....or not.....to drive my playfield magnets. So everyone have a look and let me know. These Mosfets work off a TTL level input, so are nice and easy to drive, handy with Arduinos supposedly.

 

Or I could just be making a nice smoke machine...again :redface

 

And yes i have realised that i have left off the flyback diode on the magnet coil....

717836540_MosfetMagnetDriverBoard-page-001.thumb.jpg.65f8aed99073dad738a0ae2ecfda894a.jpg

Edited by thegrunta666
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Always make Sure Your Rubbers Fit !!!!! Yes this is a good rule in life for a male....also for pinball design.....

This pic shows the various layout dimensions on the playfield. It's done in 1:1 scale, so I could screw down the posts and see what size rubber suited the, and if it was too tight or loose ! Yet again a very important thing for a male to now !

It may not seem much, but its still one of the little things to get rightish....and one step closer to making the first playfield !

Rubbers.thumb.JPG.4d1d732fab96ced54af3a67fbc4c14b2.JPG

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Just an update on design so far. The battle pinny shall have a tower in the centre. This shall have the speakers in it, also 2 , 4 inch seven segment displays to show the red and blue player scores. There shall be a TFT monitor in the centre , which shall display the playfield game play to others that are watching. There shall be a camera in the tower that looks down onto the playfield. Under the TFT and 7 segment displays is the dot matrix scrolling message display, this will display the game play messages as the players get different modes of play. There shall be 5 red and blue lights on the top that also light up as a point is scored. Still deciding if there should be like a strobe lamp / rotating beacon in the middle that goes off when the final point is scored ?

So all the pinball cabinet is 95% designed and the playfield 90%. Just have to fine tune the finishing touches, then I shall start to fabricate all the parts. Oh can anyone recommend a good speaker to install in the cabinet in the base board ?1215573096_pinny2.thumb.jpg.bb622d07d1b7275de0ce93337031ee8a.jpg772475863_pinny1.thumb.jpg.fe14fd70713ff3f0e1c3ea7e33470c30.jpg

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Top work going on here. I hope ya manage to keep line of eye sight between players. Z

 

Sent from my C6903 using Tapatalk

 

No fear Zed ! When we did our first prototype test, that was the important thing ! Eyeball your opponent into SUBMISSION ! So yes the tower height will allow for that. Its amazing how you instantly want to destroy your opponent, humans are nasty critters !

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I have a nice friend , who has a complete factory for doing nice wood worky things, so he is helping out making the cabinet. there is a bit of detailed routing work to be done on it. Also @nmercury is helping with CNC routing of the playfields. I can do wood work, but for a few beers, they can do a better finish than what I would end up with....
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Got my Ebay camera for the playfield, what do you guys think? The idea is that the spectators can watch what's happening on the playfield when standing back. This is a nice little camera off ebay that has a heap of adjustable features on it. But it will not let me crop the picture down :( If you look at post 42 in this thread, you will see what the Autocad scaling shows it on the monitor on the tower header. So it is actually showing a fairly accurate size to scale ! ( that was a pure fluke )

There will be a TFT screen on each side of the tower.

So what do you think?????? :unsure

Oh the camera is taped to a bit of veroboard, on the back of that is taped a magnet, which then sticks to the perlon in my shed roof, and looks down on the prototype playfield.:o

camera.thumb.jpg.e50acc3465dec68353eb6d31b1fcabbb.jpgtft.thumb.jpg.191c29846206a4c01b9a99a55205e9bd.jpg

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