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Head to Head Battle Pinny


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Hi All

 

The time has come to start this thread. The project has been on the go for a little while and I now feel its time to start the thread on it.

 

Basically what I'm building is a Head to head Battle Pinball, a player at each end ( Red Vs Blue ) first to score five points against the other wins !

 

This is a totally built from scratch machine, and my first attempt at one. It shall be built using a combination of Picaxe Processor Chips with my own home made PCB's ( acid etched boards, what fun ! ) And I shall be using Arduino board to run displays ( I'm a noob with these, so only have limited programming knowledge.)

 

So Step 1 : Drink beer and ponder what to create, and what I have to do to get to the end ! Simplz

 

This process took a couple of weeks, luckily I had enough beer for this creative process. So first up I started with an AutoCad drawing for my design. I use AutoCad because I have used it in the past and I find it easy to design things in it . I do it all in 1:1 Scale. this way you can draw up items and plonk them around in the virtual world to see if it all fits.

 

So this is post 1 of many to come.

IMG_3950.thumb.jpg.491110a7ac448469c33171c3df64bddd.jpgIMG_3952.thumb.jpg.7951a16c4f5030c169fe0fc1d6f7b85d.jpg

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This concept isn't new, Williams made two called "Joust" & "Rat race" in 1983. Also an unknown company called Electrocoin made one called "Selem Cup" even earlier than that. Hope your projected works out?

 

Yes , its definitely not a new concept, and hopefully the finished pinny will be fun to play.....well thats the plan anyway......

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Ok, now I have a rough plan on AutoCad, time to make a prototype playfield. So I printed out the playfield layout on paper in 1:1 scale. Traced out the cut outs and drill holes onto the 14mm plywood. Then drilled and cut everything out.

Then started screwing on all the second hand parts I had, flippers, Pop Bumpers,Sling Shots. Built the make shift power supply out of 24vdc supply, 5vdc supply and a 70vdc supply made using a toroidal transformer from Jaycar and a left over bridge rectifier board I have off a lift ( I'm a lift mechanic by trade ). Now the thing that changes the game play on this is the use of magnets under the playfield. each end has 2 magnets, one used by the attacking player, and one used for the defending player. this pulls the ball over to a flipper to deflect it off going down the guts ! I set the playfield angles at 6 degrees, just a guess at this stage as I could not be sure if this would launch the ball at the centre of the playfield ? The pop bumper has a Tri Colour LED in it that changes colour each time the pop bumper is hit ( this is done via a picaxe chip ), more to come soonish

 

[ATTACH=CONFIG]85423[/ATTACH]IMG_3444.thumb.jpg.ddee48af53faa44ba7e2f556cf75361e.jpg

Playfield.thumb.jpg.b426f74df9bd8b1f0178d138a0613328.jpg

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This is testing the pinny to see if the parts are in good spots and will work OK. Some of the layout was moved from the original AutoCad Layout, as the real world reactions of the ball would not hit the targets correctly. You will see the ball divert at one stage, this is off the "Attack" magnet located under the playfield. The pinny will have 2 magnets at each end "Attack and Defence" Attack can hold the ball and drop it down the centre of the flippers. The defend magnet can pull the ball to the side and drop it onto the flipper.

 

 

- - - Updated - - -

 

This is the 2 displays types I shall be running. One shall do the players score 1 to 5. the game will be based first to 5 hits on the other player wins. The second display type will show what game modes are active as well as other messages. I have used a Arduino Uno board and 8X8 Dot matrix displays run off a MAX7219 Chip. All these can be bought of Fleabay nice and cheap. I got the base code off the internet forums, then we altered it a bit to get what I wanted. Big thanks to my C+ programming helper Toby h ( he works for beer :D )

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Battle Pinny ,How to pivot a playfield ?

One problem on the battle pinny, is how to access the playfield underside to work on it . So using AutoCad I can create my parts ( purple and orange are the tilt hinge arrangement ). I can then pick a pivot point to rotate the playfield on, then I can rotate the playfield to see if it hits anything ! This is what is shown in the video ( sorry for the quality, bloody iPhone ) I have also attached a picture showing the playfield glass mount detail and the LED strip lighting channel that runs the length of the playfield.

The one thing I'm learning is that there is a lot of detail and parts to create to make this machine from scratch. The other issue that I'm working through is the location of the playfield in relation to the flipper buttons and switches. On a normal pinny, these are under the apron plate, so when you lift the playfield you do not hit them. On the Battle Pinny they are above the apron !!!!! That's another reason why the playfield is going to pivot down from them. Next problem is the real world set up of the ends of the pinny, the layout and the view of the flipper buttons and the apron plate when looking down on them. I'm not happy with my AutoCad design, and will do a real world mock up to see if it actually works or looks crap !!!! anyway more update to come no doubt !

 

Playfield1.thumb.jpg.9899742d33d72e2fcca015d72d119506.jpgPlayfield3.thumb.jpg.c852e7ab9d3f170ec45bb6ac8f5d26b2.jpg446806580_GlassDetail.thumb.jpg.b3d4c8eb03ca9ca0d540e04a20a06a49.jpg
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It's a bit hard to follow, but any chance of pivoting the other way - ie lift the head end and hinge / pivot closer to the flipper buttons? Because you need access to both ends to be able to play the middle section should always be in a fairly open spot. Just a thought and no doubt this would / may introduce other issues, but might be an idea.
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It's a bit hard to follow, but any chance of pivoting the other way - ie lift the head end and hinge / pivot closer to the flipper buttons? Because you need access to both ends to be able to play the middle section should always be in a fairly open spot. Just a thought and no doubt this would / may introduce other issues, but might be an idea.

That's the good thing about AutoCad, It allows me to move the hinge position and try these things. So will give it a try and see what happens. Also sorry about the video, it is a bit crappy :redface

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Abandon the standard mounting of the apron.Hinge it out of the way... Over the front of the coin door still attached to the box not the playfield.

Or hinge the apron below the flippers at playfield level to create a rest for the lifted playfield.

 

 

DSC_0162.thumb.jpg.c667d4314691ae3c970d5a3251293e5e.jpg

( drawn in crapCAD)

Edited by kress
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Very cool!

 

There was a guy on pinside doing a 4 player version (cant find the link though).

 

He had some discussion on how they butted up against each other and make have mentioned how he was planning on doing the pivot.

 

I'll see if I can find it.

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Abandon the standard mounting of the apron.Hinge it out of the way... Over the front of the coin door still attached to the box not the playfield.

Or hinge the apron below the flippers at playfield level to create a rest for the lifted playfield.

 

 

[ATTACH=CONFIG]85926[/ATTACH]

( drawn in crapCAD)

 

Nice idea Kressy, but part of the problem is that the playfield at the apron end sits about 100mm below the playfield glass !!! But I'm building a real world mock up this weekend so i can nut it all out, or due to the hot weather that's coming I might just drink cold beer instead :)

 

- - - Updated - - -

 

Very cool!

 

There was a guy on pinside doing a 4 player version (cant find the link though).

 

He had some discussion on how they butted up against each other and make have mentioned how he was planning on doing the pivot.

 

I'll see if I can find it.

 

 

Yeah see if you can track it down, would be interested o what they did. The playfelds will pivot up at the ends from the centre ,so both ends will open up. That also helps if I put the display tower thingy in the centre.

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Cool project, apart from losing the flat surface to rest your beer on why not replace the single piece of playfield glass with two pieces that join in the middle. That way the glass profile can better match the playfield angle like in traditional Pinball. Of course reflection angles might be a big issue if the room is brighter than the playfield. The glass could meet in the middle with a plastic joiner. You might get away with traditional lock down bars this way too.

Just a thought.

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Yeah see if you can track it down, would be interested o what they did. The playfelds will pivot up at the ends from the centre ,so both ends will open up. That also helps if I put the display tower thingy in the centre.

 

found it but my memory about it was incorrect. The issue he was looking at was the mitred joins and not the hinge.

 

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/lionman-custom-game

 

474460-i.jpg.cb06cfdb7b3091764fb3b9a74033926e.jpg

 

475304.jpg.bc775c263502829657ea621e70291650.jpg

 

There is a 3 way also here -> https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/check-out-this-3-way-jungle-lord

Edited by Koops
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Cool project, apart from losing the flat surface to rest your beer on why not replace the single piece of playfield glass with two pieces that join in the middle. That way the glass profile can better match the playfield angle like in traditional Pinball. Of course reflection angles might be a big issue if the room is brighter than the playfield. The glass could meet in the middle with a plastic joiner. You might get away with traditional lock down bars this way too.

Just a thought.

 

Yeah , have had a look at doing that, would make life a lot easier.....But there is an old version of this out there that is like that. However my highly skilled beer drinking design team and I have decided the flat glass is the better way to go. We did not like the channel that has to be run in the centre to support the glass. Also the more annoying problem of your beer sliding off the glass mid battle ! :)

 

1908044394_headtoheadpinball.jpg.f9a2ed2758a80924983b74edc0d75421.jpg

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Battle Pinball, working out the electronics ....If trying to put together the machine playfield , timber work etc is a challenge, then you have to come up with the electronics to run the thing. As stated before I shall be using a combination of Picaxe chips and arduino's to do the works.

To keep it simple..( now that's a slight understatement ) I shall break parts of the game play into thier own sections, with basically a dedicated processor chip to run them, with minimal inputs and outputs to the other processor chips. Today I have been drawing up what I need to make for the roll over targets and their outputs . The outputs will light the lamps under the target when hit ( simple ) Then when all targets are hit, the processor will fire off a function. ie Reverse the individual players flippers, disable the attack or save magnets, make the flippers misfire, all sorts of nasty things that will effect both players !

 

I have attached the first draft of the circuit I will create, then I need to write the software on the Picaxe to make it all work, what fun !!!!!

 

632063331_RollOverSwitchSchematic.thumb.jpg.0367de219001f4c34a79a3ec91ebac8c.jpg

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Some circuit feedback if you want it. You might want to check the datasheets for BC547 current rating - not enough to drive a magnet, maybe have a look at logic level mosfets as the drive device. Also it's a bit hard to read but are you fusing the lamp drive (or is it a terminal designation?) and not the magnets? Need Vcc to the picaxe.

 

What's the philosophy behind a mix of picaxe and arduino? To me arduino have better programability and with your distributed processing model you could use the serial coms nicely for keeping track of the scoring from all the different processing points.

 

Great to see you documenting this - keep it up, it's a cool project.

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I agree with your suggestion to use arduino only but I hadn't thought of using serial coms for the scoring. I'll have a leonardo board for each section of the playfield and a Mega for scoring and display. Only because I'm used to using them.

I guess it comes down to what you're more comfortable programming?

 

 

 

Sent from my SM-G900I using Tapatalk

Edited by BIG Trev
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Some circuit feedback if you want it. You might want to check the datasheets for BC547 current rating - not enough to drive a magnet, maybe have a look at logic level mosfets as the drive device. Also it's a bit hard to read but are you fusing the lamp drive (or is it a terminal designation?) and not the magnets? Need Vcc to the picaxe.

 

What's the philosophy behind a mix of picaxe and arduino? To me arduino have better programability and with your distributed processing model you could use the serial coms nicely for keeping track of the scoring from all the different processing points.

 

Great to see you documenting this - keep it up, it's a cool project.

 

You are right the BC547 wont drive the magnets !!! It would fuse out very quickly. That's just a start for the circuit, I shall not drive devices directly off this board except for the lamps. The other outputs will be driving relays, so will probably us a BD139 transistor, these are a good one to use and dont go fizz easily. The final project will have LOTS of fusing ! I have watched as whole wiring looms have gone up due to one wire acting as a slow blow 20amp fuse !!!

The use of the 2 types of processor are:

1/ I have used Picaxe for years and am happy with the simplicity of "basic" language code. Also I have made some nice acid etched PCB's that i have made for numerous projects. These are very generic and can be used to do lots of applications.

2/ Evolution !!!! It's evident that Picaxe will go the way of the Dodo, and Arduino and similar devices are the next step. So reluctantly I'm venture into learning C+ and evolving. Also the Arduino is perfect for the serial dot matrix displays I want in the project.

 

Appreciate the feedback Fire_Power, all feedback is welcome !

 

- - - Updated - - -

 

So, here is the mock up of the end of the playfield. I think it works quite well and addresses the design issues I had.

I'm still tossing up on where to place the scrolling displays. I do like them on the apron, but this will be an issue on the ball shooter side as the boards will sit into the space where the ball return will fire the ball !

So, I'm looking at putting the static score displays for the red and blue teams on the left hand side of the apron plate. I will the incorporate the scrolling display in the flipper button cover, this puts the displays just under the playfield glass just up from the lock down bar. Also all the display hardware will fit under there easily. When you look at the picture, I have just placed the displays on the flipper cover to see if they will fit and look alight.

The other important thing that this mock up does , is help determine the height the lockdown bar should be at ( 850mm ) to play the game comfortably ( Unless you are over 6ft !, but i'm not :p and this is my machine ).

Oh never try to do a video when the dogs see a cat ! Also the missus pointed out that the dining table is not a work bench !!!! I pointed out that there is absolutely no "sign" in the house that say's that its not .....I shall be sleeping with afore mentioned dog's tonight :lol

591787766_AbovePlayfieldUp.thumb.jpg.081d96715ff76c9308e26d36a450f8a1.jpg2042371078_LookingAtUndersideoffront.thumb.jpg.0524ba9caaa0eea2d6b04b970894615c.jpg1171185479_PlayfieldView2.thumb.jpg.3631374c804fdc71c670ae7352e35d45.jpg1689928820_PlayfieldView5.thumb.jpg.5ebe08a39e15864b0f2a40fd0d8dc111.jpg68464755_SidePlayfieldUp.thumb.jpg.f77a872d4d2a8f65b45c3dc2ea39ccc0.jpg

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  • 1 month later...
Project Update; Hi All, I have been working on the electrical schematics and design for the pinny. As you can see, I have decided not to put everything onto a napkin.....It all gets a bit tricky as the boards communicate by direct inputs and outputs, not serial comm's. So I have to think about this when designing the boards and allocating the inputs and outputs. This also impacts on how I write my software for the boards.... argh..... Now I know you will have a look and go " why is he using that transistor or resistors, they are the wrong type ! " and you would be right ! They are generic at this stage, and when I finalise the schematics , I will put in the appropriate devices, I dont want to put in all this effort to see a bigger fire works display than Sydney on New Years Eve ! ( no doubt I will release the Smoke Genie at some stage of this project ) So it's all going forward, but still has a long way to go ! Special thanks at this stage to @kress for his feedback on my design and circuit query's.359935620_SHT11FlipperRelays-page-001.thumb.jpg.54f81d248e5f834e9df5a1cccef261bb.jpg1530177559_SHT9MagnetButtonBoard-page-001.thumb.jpg.0598777c0eb9c027e27e36612fd04508.jpg111240359_SHT8SideLightsBoard-page-001.thumb.jpg.908fcfd5dfc8e9adbaac427f84441b4d.jpg155509854_SHT7MagentTargetsSchematic-page-001.thumb.jpg.8dd1099569d202dc8b8b900b19f3e0af.jpg1860917832_SHT5MainProcessorSchematic-page-001.thumb.jpg.358b3e5c55b9c2c531ece97acf5ea010.jpg1895390071_SHT4MainProcessorBoard-page-001.thumb.jpg.762efcf1c1244c0937f449ff8fc70933.jpg1503186325_SHT3Topography-page-001.thumb.jpg.4b0fa9d8793fb15a65c3772297eca7c8.jpg1158701244_file-page12.thumb.jpg.b027c8e5849857f70d32c89f44fc3c49.jpg
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