Going Home Early???

[DAG]

I'm going to go Home early???

I'm looking for opinions about players that leave a Competition Early....

I'm not going to make the finals or score points so I'm going to leave before the event finishes to look after myself and my points? Are you F...ing serious. You F....ing Prick.

I reckon you should go home for a wank. It suites you. What makes you so Special (Really I Know) that you think it's OK to piss off just because you are not playing to your full potential.

Lessor players just wish that you would stay home. You Nerf the points of the punters you take money and points from at every competition you hang around for. This is a low form of cheating IMO. That's an opinion I'm entitled to have. I'm no high end player but I love beating a high ranked player. There are some real good players that I have never finished above in a competition (Peter F...ing Watt) or is that F for Francis? That is fine by me. He is a Legend. The others are just as good as cheats and have a (Midnight Oil) Short Memory. You seriously don't deserve the points you have if you leave early and Rob the lower ranked player of a good day or night out. I'd actually breath a sigh of relief as you leave as I really didn't want to play a game with someone like you anyway. Cop That MO-FO.

If this happens at my competitions I will mention prior that you will not be welcomed back.

See you at the AMD Queensland State Invitational Weekend. Play all day or stay away. There. Point Made.

Now it's your turn.

Edited January 22, 2023 by DAG
Typed MO-FO incorrectly

[Chaza73]

Not sure what this is all about but there are some real wankers in this sport/hobby. Also some really awesome people aswell. Mostly awesome.  I feel your pain.

[Pinoffski]

WoW @DAG I like people that say how it really is

[robm]

Hmm, i've left after i've been kicked out of a comp (strikes) to get sleep so i can attend work the next day in a fit state, or to spend time with family. To me, my mental health (tied directly to sleep), and family are far more important than a pinball comp.

Typically its only ever the finalists that hang around at comps at my place, plus a few spectators. While its great to have spectators, i also appreciuate people have lives to live and other commitments, so am not fussed if they leave before the comp ends.

Or if you are talking about people leaving during a matchplay event, then i don't think that is ideal, however still apreciate sometimes there are more important things to do. I had one guy pull the pin as he has sever social anxiety, he just bailed and messaged me later apologising - i have no issue with this. And at the end of the day, if someone chooses to leave since they are doing rubbish, then whatever, its not really a big issue, they've paid theri entry fee, os they can choose what they want. Sometimes with my young bloke i've left early, as the nights just get too late for a 12 yr old.

[KJS]

Competition pinball is so frigging serious sometimes, who really cares it's a game of chance in the main, agree with Rob's comments above.

[RMacauley]

Player leaving early with a genuine reason (work, family, sudden dose of the trots) is fine by me.

Player leaving early because of playing like crap? Pretty lame in my book. 

Player leaving a flip frenzy in the first half hour because he was playing like crap AND has pulled a root on Tinder THEN coming back 90 minutes later with a spring in his step, re-activating himself on matchplay without the TD knowing and kicking my arse twice in 15 minutes costing me a win? Pathetic 🤬

And yes that actually happened 

Edited January 22, 2023 by RMacauley

[raysco]

I thought Pinball was a social game, yea I like to win against my mates, but it is not the be all and end all of living.  Competitive pinball, especially with an attitude like this makes me wonder why any newcomer would bother, and even myself in a support role needs thinking about.  Berating someone for leaving for whatever reason is pathetic. You are worrying over miniscule points.  If its stressing you so much, give it up, its not good for your mental health.

This thread has made me realise why I don't bother with most comps.  

 

[peely]

I don't get the leaving early thing, is it the rating or the player vs player loss statistic they're worrying about?

 

[PinballZero]

I believe a lot of people have misinterpreted what DAG is saying. He isn't talking about forcing people to watch finals or leaving for legitimate reasons.

The rule that people are exploiting is if you play less than half of a qualifying section you don't get counted in the IFPA points total. This is made to stop people bringing in randoms for a round or two to boost point value for an event.

He is calling out past or current "very competitive" players that take advantage of this rule. There are a few players well known for leaving competitions withing the first half of comp due to poor performance to "protect their rating" and the selfish idea that they won't gain wpprs so they take the points they would have contributed and run.

When I first started travelling to interstate events in 2019 I was an average player. Seeing these "top players" leave when I had the potential to place higher than them be taken away after being beaten by them multiple times was a little frustrating. 

Every hobby/sport has some bad eggs in them and as most travelled within Australia in 2019 and 2022 for pinball I've seen it all.  BUT the vast majority of the pinball community is wonderful. So many friendly people that will talk with anyone and share their stories, hospitality and love for the game. I don't like the competition scene being put down so much when 98% of people are amazing people that I would be proud to call my friend.

 

 

[Pop Bumper Pete]

I thought pinball was meant to be fun?

[nich2pat]

I don't understand peoples fascination with these mystical WPPR points. What do they get you? Nothing. They have zero value. If people decide to leave then there are less people to beat. I don't have the luxury of deciding to leave a tournament if I am playing poorly, as I only get to play in a few each year. Would be a waste of time and money if I decided to leave before the end. 

And I would have to disagree with you KJS about it being a game of chance. Why do you think you see the same people winning a lot of tournaments. Surely not by chance? Didn't Roger Sharpe prove that pinball wasn't a game of chance 🙂

On 22/1/2023 at 7:27 PM, KJS said:

Competition pinball is so frigging serious sometimes, who really cares it's a game of chance in the main, agree with Rob's comments above.

 

[illawarra_steelers]

will go as far as saying it ruined pinball as a hobby

Edited January 24, 2023 by illawarra_steelers

[Pop Bumper Pete]

11 minutes ago, illawarra_steelers said:

will go as far as saying it ruined pinball as a hobby

No, that would be DMDs 😉

[DAG]

On 22/01/2023 at 4:28 PM, robm said:

Hmm, i've left after i've been kicked out of a comp (strikes) to get sleep so i can attend work the next day in a fit state, or to spend time with family. To me, my mental health (tied directly to sleep), and family are far more important than a pinball comp.

Typically its only ever the finalists that hang around at comps at my place, plus a few spectators. While its great to have spectators, i also appreciuate people have lives to live and other commitments, so am not fussed if they leave before the comp ends.

Or if you are talking about people leaving during a matchplay event, then i don't think that is ideal, however still apreciate sometimes there are more important things to do. I had one guy pull the pin as he has sever social anxiety, he just bailed and messaged me later apologising - i have no issue with this. And at the end of the day, if someone chooses to leave since they are doing rubbish, then whatever, its not really a big issue, they've paid theri entry fee, os they can choose what they want. Sometimes with my young bloke i've left early, as the nights just get too late for a 12 yr old.

Hi Rob, all you say is true but you missed the bit about intentional protection of the species this mentions.

Never anything wrong with any of the reasons you have stated. That is all sensible. Even the bit about paying and leaving.

It's no issue to the higher ranked player but the player that just needs an extra 0.23 points or less in that comp to qualify elsewhere. EG-State Championships is whom suffers.

It poor form from poor losers.

That is all.....

On 22/01/2023 at 6:27 PM, KJS said:

Competition pinball is so frigging serious sometimes, who really cares it's a game of chance in the main, agree with Rob's comments above.

It's not chance when a player knows a machine inside out including rules, modes and can save post pass etc etc...

That is skill Mr Savage. Tell me you don't have any skill to go with that other ability you have??? All comps mean different things to many people....

That would be why you don't do comps until it happens in your backyard. Comps don't mean much to you.

On 23/01/2023 at 9:10 AM, RMacauley said:

Player leaving early with a genuine reason (work, family, sudden dose of the trots) is fine by me.

Player leaving early because of playing like crap? Pretty lame in my book. 

Player leaving a flip frenzy in the first half hour because he was playing like crap AND has pulled a root on Tinder THEN coming back 90 minutes later with a spring in his step, re-activating himself on matchplay without the TD knowing and kicking my arse twice in 15 minutes costing me a win? Pathetic 🤬

And yes that actually happened 

Well said Rob....Now where is that Donkey you rode in on....lol

9 hours ago, peely said:

I don't get the leaving early thing, is it the rating or the player vs player loss statistic they're worrying about?

 

Sometimes both but mostly rating in these cases.

8 hours ago, PinballZero said:

I believe a lot of people have misinterpreted what DAG is saying. He isn't talking about forcing people to watch finals or leaving for legitimate reasons.

The rule that people are exploiting is if you play less than half of a qualifying section you don't get counted in the IFPA points total. This is made to stop people bringing in randoms for a round or two to boost point value for an event.

He is calling out past or current "very competitive" players that take advantage of this rule. There are a few players well known for leaving competitions withing the first half of comp due to poor performance to "protect their rating" and the selfish idea that they won't gain wpprs so they take the points they would have contributed and run.

When I first started travelling to interstate events in 2019 I was an average player. Seeing these "top players" leave when I had the potential to place higher than them be taken away after being beaten by them multiple times was a little frustrating. 

Every hobby/sport has some bad eggs in them and as most travelled within Australia in 2019 and 2022 for pinball I've seen it all.  BUT the vast majority of the pinball community is wonderful. So many friendly people that will talk with anyone and share their stories, hospitality and love for the game. I don't like the competition scene being put down so much when 98% of people are amazing people that I would be proud to call my friend.

 

 

 

Thanks for the back up and explanation for some that don't get it.

 

[DAG]

16 hours ago, raysco said:

I thought Pinball was a social game, yea I like to win against my mates, but it is not the be all and end all of living.  Competitive pinball, especially with an attitude like this makes me wonder why any newcomer would bother, and even myself in a support role needs thinking about.  Berating someone for leaving for whatever reason is pathetic. You are worrying over miniscule points.  If its stressing you so much, give it up, its not good for your mental health.

This thread has made me realise why I don't bother with most comps.  

 

Thanks Ray, as usual many people read things and take their point of veiw be it thought thru or not.

Pinball is about as damned well social as it can be. Having fun with mates and newbies alike. It is as you say not the be all and end all. Competitive pinball with an attitude like mine is what is required to have the balls to tell it like it is. What you don't get is how much joy these people take away from the newbies. You would be surprised how many people have asked who was that wanker we just played with and why does he act like that? I've not berated anyone whom is not deserving of the reason they have left? As Rob Milla mentions there are many reasons to leave early. All those reasons are fine. That is not what this is about. As I said to KJS the comps you comment about you don't attend thus how can you see what happens regularly and actually understand it. It is not stressing me at all. I had the chance to start a new topic and I did. I knew it would upset some but basically it won't get to the the ears of those that leave in such a manner. As for mental health. Pinball is GREAT for my mental health. People who only pip up when they don't agree and only then are not good for mental health. They are oblivious to the reality of mental health.

That is my ENTITLED OPINION - You don't have to like it.

[Autosteve]

Luck and reflex machines pinballs were originally.

 

[Zzap]

Hard to police, but if it was an ongoing occurrence, sounds like they should be considered for a ban for intentionally gaming the IFPA rating system

[DAG]

17 minutes ago, Zzap said:

Hard to police, but if it was an ongoing occurrence, sounds like they should be considered for a ban for intentionally gaming the IFPA rating system

Hard to Police and also opinion based.

The responses indicate this from all points of view and that's fine. This is a forum after all.

2 things I should add considering I started this it's obvious that this is ongoing and it involves a small percentage. 1.5% at best. This is why I have spoken.

1/ Would you rather see this happen at my venue and I whine later after it's done OR ask now like I have. Yes my wording is harsh. It got some responses...Mission achieved.

2/ I don't want this to happen at my venue because no matter how competitive you are or are not. I want you to have fun. Meet people and catch up with mates that share a common bond we call pinball. Yes. That's what I want. fun.

 

[KJS]

3 hours ago, DAG said:

Hi Rob, all you say is true but you missed the bit about intentional protection of the species this mentions.

Never anything wrong with any of the reasons you have stated. That is all sensible. Even the bit about paying and leaving.

It's no issue to the higher ranked player but the player that just needs an extra 0.23 points or less in that comp to qualify elsewhere. EG-State Championships is whom suffers.

It poor form from poor losers.

That is all.....

It's not chance when a player knows a machine inside out including rules, modes and can save post pass etc etc...

That is skill Mr Savage. Tell me you don't have any skill to go with that other ability you have??? All comps mean different things to many people....

That would be why you don't do comps until it happens in your backyard. Comps don't mean much to you.

Well said Rob....Now where is that Donkey you rode in on....lol

Sometimes both but mostly rating in these cases.

Thanks for the back up and explanation for some that don't get it.

 

100% they mean jack shit to me.

Just like playing when and where I like and with who like, love it actually.

And not saying it's all chance but chance is part of it once you have all the basic playing skills and knowledge of the rules. 

Honestly couldn't give a shit about deep rulesets myself, actually a turn off.

Bit like motor sport.... biggest contradiction in terms I've ever heard of.

Each to their own, good luck with the comps.

 

 

 

[visualmagic]

deleted to preserve sanity

Edited January 25, 2023 by visualmagic
not really that interested :)

[Pinoffski]

everyone has a opinion on comps or no comps

i am going to say that the some people have no respect for the host these days ( and one that i know of many years ago )

whether that is a ifpa comp or friendly comp for fun

yes it use to be fun ... back in the day ( @Rollerball times )

------------------------------------------------------------------

I will say for all the hosts .... that have hosted

This is me saying this

FOR THE PEOPLE THAT ATTEND WE ARE NOT YOUR WIFE TO PICK UP AFTER YOU SO PUT YOUR DRINKS IN THE BIN

WHETHER THEY ARE HALF FULL OR NOT AND DON'T LEAVE THEM ON A MACHINE

Fyi it never happened to me at wildball comp

 

 

 

 

 

[raysco]

On 24/01/2023 at 4:25 PM, DAG said:

I knew it would upset some but basically it won't get to the the ears of those that leave in such a manner. 

That is my ENTITLED OPINION - You don't have to like it.

Post removed. Lost interest.

Edited January 25, 2023 by raysco

[DAG]

Thanks all.

I got exactly what I expected. Even from some of the people that I expected and with comments likened to them.

That's life. It has just proved to me what I tought I knew about some things are true and that there where actually no surprises in any of the given answers.

Happy to continue this in person rather than from behind a keyboard. If any of you want to make the effort.

Other than that many many thanks to the dozen or so that turned up at Yaboola last night to help clean and set up for the AMD Qld Invitational weekend.

All jobs completed early and many games, banter and good old mental health issues addressed. Cheap Drinks and No cover charge was required.

Only a few more sleeps for those Comps to begin.

Fun, Fun, Fun, Brothers and Sisters............

[Dedrok]

On 23/01/2023 at 10:10 AM, RMacauley said:

Player leaving early with a genuine reason (work, family, sudden dose of the trots) is fine by me.

Player leaving early because of playing like crap? Pretty lame in my book. 

Player leaving a flip frenzy in the first half hour because he was playing like crap AND has pulled a root on Tinder THEN coming back 90 minutes later with a spring in his step, re-activating himself on matchplay without the TD knowing and kicking my arse twice in 15 minutes costing me a win? Pathetic 🤬

And yes that actually happened 

I remember that. 

 

There is nothing worse than when you set up a comp and brackets, then someone leaves before finals and stuffs it up. Probably not as problematic now with apps  

 

The old basic points system worked far better as there was no rorting and points grabbing. 25 points per comp per year. Want to hold 5 in a weekend, they divided. 

Flip frenzy is when I opted out of comps completely. The cheating was rife.  Was never about good playing but who could get through the most games. 

Flip franzy is only great for socialising and should only be used as a social event. 

I can’t believe this all still goes on. They constantly change ifpa rules because they keep having to plug holes in the rules that keep getting abused. 

Best thing I ever did was just walk away, with an occasional appearance here and there. 

Edited January 26, 2023 by Dedrok

[Autosteve]

Pinball people have always been a testy bunch, myself included I guess but the one good side to all this is thank Christ it isn't like it was in the 70s and 80s.

Sure there wasn't comps complaints back then but it was a pure money making business full of a lot of shall we say "shady people" moving all sorts of money through the very same style of machines you guys now get great joy playing and owning.