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Cosmic Princess switch question


onetaste

Question

HI All. I am getting a CP up and running. The left spinner switch intermittently fires the right slingshot.

 

There are no schematics for CP, but I have had a look at the switch matrix for Trident (which CP is made from) and these two switches are on the same column. They share are a white/green wire. There is no continuity with the other wires on the spinner or right slingshot switches.

 

I have removed all of the switch capacitors under the playfield. I have tested the diodes (in circuit) on all the switches in the same switch matrix column and they are ok. Other switches in the column do not fire the slingshot.

 

Anyone got any ideas of what might be causing the problem, or what steps to take next? Thanks.

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You legend, thanks, Rod! This confirms what I thought, the two switches are in the same row - L Spin, R Sling (also Roll over & Standup #2 , drop target 4). The latter two switches don't fire the R sling.

 

I've tuned both spinners so they spin like crazy now. It is possible to score 50K on the right spinner, but only about 10K on the left when lit for the same points. It seems the left spinner is not recognising all the hits.

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As far as I know CP uses the Same ROMs as Stern Magic.

 

Also check one of the spinners may have the 47 p/farad cap fitted and the other not. This update/factory "mod" will improve the registering of fast switch closures ("increase scoring" to use the words of the Stern documentation).

 

- - - Updated - - -

 

*putting this cap across the spinner switch on my Seawitch more than doubled the value of a fast spin. Also the top rollover needed one as sometimes a looping ball with pace would not register the loop (value).

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Thanks Ray. I have removed the caps in case they are bad and causing a problem.

 

The weird thing that I don’t understand is that moving the left spinner slightly but not closing the switch will fire the right sling. So the sling fires, but no score is registered for the spinner (or the sling). Why would slight movement of the spinner without closing the switch have that effect?

 

This happens either by hand or by ball, so I am not shorting something with my hand.

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Only thing I can think of at this late hour is something around the mechanics of the spinner switch? (short?)... but hang on, if it is not scoring either then I figure it is not the switch matrix that is firing the sling?? weird indeed! ... something phunny going on there (coming from MPU board?)....

 

- - - Updated - - -

 

I assume you've checked the sling switches, nothing out of place, and not normally closed?? . hmmmm, shorted diode on a sling switch maybe? (always registering closed, perhaps interfering with other switches)

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There is a faulty diode in the matrix around the spinner that is failing occasionally. I'd change every diode as a matter of coarse personally as they are cheap as shit.

These diodes do fail but rarely fail completely leaving you with such glitches.

 

Thanks, Steve, i’ll get onto this and report back

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The weird thing that I don’t understand is that moving the left spinner slightly but not closing the switch will fire the right sling. So the sling fires, but no score is registered for the spinner (or the sling). Why would slight movement of the spinner without closing the switch have that effect?

 

This happens either by hand or by ball, so I am not shorting something with my hand.

 

Are you holding the ball when you're doing this? The switch return signals can be quite sensitive to external 'noise'.

Slingshots and pop bumpers are referred to as "fast react" solenoids and are handled differently to other solenoids. From a software perspective, as soon as it senses one of the fast react solenoid switches close it will activate that solenoid immediately, however scoring is handled separately and their respective switches need to be seen closed for a longer period of time before scoring.

 

Check if your original problem only occurs when certain drop targets are down - this will help narrow down where the problem is in the switch matrix.

 

Oh, also check if your game has the factory wiring/insert error for the spinner lamps. The upper yellow 2 rollover lights the left spinner yellow insert for extra 400 points, but actually the extra 400 points are rewarded on the right spinner. Vice versa the orange 5 rollover lights the right spinner orange insert for extra 400 points but the points are rewarded on the left spinner.

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Have you tried starting a game but thumping the playfield with your hand, could be a switch almost closed touching due to vibration. I had this problem once with Elektra. If the slingshot fires due to thumping put the game into switch test & do it again the offending switch number should be displayed.
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Have you tried starting a game but thumping the playfield with your hand, could be a switch almost closed touching due to vibration. I had this problem once with Elektra. If the slingshot fires due to thumping put the game into switch test & do it again the offending switch number should be displayed.

 

Yep, done that. Replaced the diodes in the problem column, that didn’t help either. I have finally fixed it, will write up the solution in a bit when I get the time.

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I found the switch matrix issue with my Cosmic Princess - the left spinner that was firing the right slingshot. I cut off all the caps, replaced the diodes in the switch column, checked continuity for a short, checked the connectors. None of this helped. Then I noticed that if I touched the spinner switch (without closing it and registering a switch hit) the right slingshot would still fire. Turns out a previous owner had put a bolt through the spinner post and secured it under the playfield on the drop target assembly. There was continuity from the switch, up the spinner and down the post. The spinner switch was shorting on the drop target assembly.

 

After 4 years and 2 techs employed in addition to me to look at this thing, the mystery is solved. It was hard to spot, the bolt happened to match up perfectly with the corner of the drop target assembly, through the hole that bolts the assembly to the underside of the playfield. It feels so good, this one has been doing my head in a long time.

 

I put Cosmic Princess in two IFPA tournaments at my place this weekend, it ran perfectly for 12 hours non stop. I took the outlane posts out and this made it the perfect difficulty for a tournament setting. I tuned the spinners so they rip really well and now it is nicely balanced between target bonus times strategy & lanes/spinner strategy. I think people really enjoyed playing a game they’ve never encountered in a tournament before.

 

Thanks everyone for your help getting this one up and running! [emoji120]

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