pinball god Posted November 18, 2018 Share Posted November 18, 2018 This has annoyed me for some time especially while owning both p2k games and that is people knock buying and owning these due to fear of the pc going etc and being left with a boat anchor. So these games have suffered price wise because of this. I've now sold both for other reasons. But what I'm interested to know is, why are people happy to fork out on jjp, Chicago pin and any of the other boutique guys. Man if i was worried about future issues with availability and places to fix these systems why the hell are guys outlaying $13k+ on these new games? I wouldn't guaranty the manufacturers will be around in 10 years and this would even apply to Stern. So why the insecurities with p2k (which Has industrial based gear) and the confidence in these other systems. I still shake my head when asked aren't i worried about p2k.....ah no Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T2S88 Posted November 18, 2018 Share Posted November 18, 2018 I really do wish the pinball 2000 system could of hung around for a few more years. Such a good mechanical/electrical system , paired with a good theme it would be perfect. Sent from my Nokia 7 plus using Aussie Arcade mobile app Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Railways Posted November 18, 2018 Share Posted November 18, 2018 I've had both p2k games here at the same time and while I enjoyed playing both (and they never missed a beat) RFM is my fave as I liked the comedy shoutouts from the martians. I'll have another one back one day but I can't move around the garage now by about 4 pins. Sigh, you can't have them all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajfclark Posted November 18, 2018 Share Posted November 18, 2018 Could an LCD monitor be used in them? Would that have lowered the weight? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pinball god Posted November 18, 2018 Author Share Posted November 18, 2018 Could an LCD monitor be used in them? Would that have lowered the weight? Yeah LCD can be used, just doesn't feel the same in my opinion Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Autosteve Posted November 18, 2018 Share Posted November 18, 2018 Sad they ceased production when they did I think. A case of not selling enough compared to previous models in better times still they did outsell Stern but Stern didn't have a poker machine division that could better make use of the development money like Williams Bally did have as well as a video machine division so Stern had to stick with it and as a result become the default number 1. Honestly though, a PC based pinball with video interface was not the answer to higher model numbers I don't think. While these features are a novelty, most novelties live a short life. The cabinet was another story though. That cabinet design had a future allowing for more than ever before with a few tweaks I think. One thing I honestly believe is the traditional pinball cabinet has run it's cause. While it does attract "pinball players", I have heard kids say, "Oww, it is just a pinball", from the other side of an arcade where pinballs have been. Just a pinball means to me the kids already have an assumption without even getting close to the machine and not a good assumption. Rule number 1 in arcade operations is to get people to look at your machine because if they don't even look at them close up, they won't put money in them no matter what you call them, what licensing agreements you make or how good the rule set is will they?. However these last era of Bally Williams machines did look different and could have been developed to look even more different. Anyone that may not agree with the appearance of a machine not having an impact, consider how video machines have changed styles over the years. Look how toy claw machines have changed in appearance over time. A good example is Namco's Time Crisis series of gun games...All good earners but would they have ALL been good earners if Namco used the same original Time Crisis 1 cabinet for every later model of the game?. Look at the car market. Imagine if manufactures kept the exact same body shape but just changed the interior?. This may be a bit off track of this thread but the idea is to get people to think potentially why pinball is in a slump and not selling 10,000 odd of each machine out earning money like it used to and what could be the root cause. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pop Bumper Pete Posted November 18, 2018 Share Posted November 18, 2018 It is not just pin2000 that i avoid I'd love to own an Atari Superman, but the electronics is problematic so I will not buy one also one reason I am glad I got out of TAG, too much custom electronics and hardware Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toads Posted November 18, 2018 Share Posted November 18, 2018 I don't think Pin2000 gets a bad wrap at all. There seems to be an RFM at nearly every meet I go too. I have one too. Great fun game. Too heavy with a CRT. Converted mine to LCD much better. After market Software is available so I don't see an issue. All Pins are hard to sell ATM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemini2544 Posted November 18, 2018 Share Posted November 18, 2018 All Pins are hard to sell ATM. Funny how a year ago Pins were selling faster than ever & at stupidly high prices. Have the Hipsters lost interest? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toads Posted November 18, 2018 Share Posted November 18, 2018 Funny how a year ago Pins were selling faster than ever & at stupidly high prices. Have the Hipsters lost interest? So many choices from different manufacturers ATM I think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pinball god Posted November 19, 2018 Author Share Posted November 19, 2018 But talking to those who don't own one, the single reason why is the fear of the electronics dying. And that's why I'm a little confused with all this new PC based stuff etc. Heighway was the classic imo. Supposed to be interchangable between games like pin2000 but the second game has a different pc which stuffed that train of thought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newy16216 Posted November 19, 2018 Share Posted November 19, 2018 Anyone want to off load one of these boat anchors lol - - - Updated - - - Every meet I go to between the shots n s:%t talking it's the only game I play Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noob-A-Tron Posted November 19, 2018 Share Posted November 19, 2018 The fact that you sold both speaks volumes do you own any new games and if so have you moved them on. I find old machines break down more and i am always fixing them or having to pay someone to fix them. I have 2 brand new sterns and they have not required a tech for either of them. These games pinball 2000 seem to go for 4-5k i would rather get a Stern pro. As far as Jersey Jack etc i would only buy second hand at a great price as they devalue to much. Stern all the way for me. I do like the older games, And will still buy them but would just buy new over them any day of the week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemini2544 Posted November 19, 2018 Share Posted November 19, 2018 The fact that you sold both speaks volumes do you own any new games and if so have you moved them on. I find old machines break down more and i am always fixing them or having to pay someone to fix them. I have 2 brand new sterns and they have not required a tech for either of them. These games pinball 2000 seem to go for 4-5k i would rather get a Stern pro. As far as Jersey Jack etc i would only buy second hand at a great price as they devalue to much. Stern all the way for me. I do like the older games, And will still buy them but would just buy new over them any day of the week. I have eight pins 4 EM's, 2 SS & 2 DMDs, in the last three years only one machine has broken down & it was I.J needing the boards to be serviced by Ken. So I can't believe all the countries machines are as unstable as you say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pinball god Posted November 19, 2018 Author Share Posted November 19, 2018 But talking to those who don't own one, the single reason why is the fear of the electronics dying. And that's why I'm a little confused with all this new PC based stuff etc. Heighway was the classic imo. Supposed to be interchangable between games like pin2000 but the second game has a different pc which stuffed that train of thought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajfclark Posted November 19, 2018 Share Posted November 19, 2018 I have eight pins 4 EM's, 2 SS & 2 DMDs, in the last three years only one machine has broken down & it was I.J needing the boards to be serviced by Ken. So I can't believe all the countries machines are as unstable as you say. Didn't Space Mission smoke a coil? ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemini2544 Posted November 19, 2018 Share Posted November 19, 2018 Didn't Space Mission smoke a coil? ;) Space Mission had a loom fire shortly after getting it. A single wire shorted, I'd forgotten about that one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noob-A-Tron Posted November 19, 2018 Share Posted November 19, 2018 @Gemini2544 how often do you play them i put well over 2000 games on my metallica in 18 months if i did that to my 90's pins they would not hold up. Remember they are 20 plus years older than anything new. I also replaced a board for my Wh20 and Ken could not fix because of all the hacks on it i was not aware of that my bad and $300 later but that's my point anything old has other peoples issues normally attached to them. Most operator's do not like siting old machines as they break down so i have been told by operator's. Maybe i just have bad luck but i am sure others would agree. I want to play the shit outta these games not look at them. Also talking 90's-2000 machine not SS or EMs, so you have a 50% strike rate :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemini2544 Posted November 19, 2018 Share Posted November 19, 2018 @Gemini2544 how often do you play them i put well over 2000 games on my metallica in 18 months if i did that to my 90's pins they would not hold up. Remember they are 20 plus years older than anything new. I also replaced a board for my Wh20 and Ken could not fix because of all the hacks on it i was not aware of that my bad and $300 later but that's my point anything old has other peoples issues normally attached to them. Most operator's do not like siting old machines as they break down so i have been told by operator's. Maybe i just have bad luck but i am sure others would agree. I want to play the shit outta these games not look at them. Also talking 90's-2000 machine not SS or EMs, so you have a 50% strike rate :) Well they get played weekly on Friday night at Beer o"clock & they have survived two Pinball meets here Plus @VON, @Crafty & @Dedrok gave them a run on Saturday last. Can't say they get a flogging but there not wrapped in cotton wool either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ctucker Posted November 30, 2018 Share Posted November 30, 2018 I'm currently doing a total rebuild on my RFM/SWE1 at present (which has gone on forever), the cabinet is getting filled and painted and new SWE1 decals and all and have both plug and play playfields and each prism and Nucore complete and the full Pinbox install. I have the original working PC and I'm experimenting with a rugged-ised 'boxer' PC, which is a very small footprint PC without any noisy cooling fans (half the case is a heat sink) which should run silently and at a stable temperature in hot & cold environments. I have a wide-screen 22 inch 2ms response Asus LED monitor with a prefab mounting bracket ready to fit too. Shes going to be sweet when finished hopefully. The main problem with the Pinball 2000 pinball is the original computer and conventional tube monitor, its lifespan, and PC hardware alternatives (if preferred) not being easy to deal with. If you go Pinbox or Nucore then skills with Linux admin is a must. You could get the monitor chassis repaired or replaced, or retaining the original PC go LED/LCD using a video converter. It would be likely to install Pinbox/Nucore on an SSD drive, and have 2nd SSD copy just in case. The next problem doing the boxer (or other) PC is the power-off function, Linux likes a formal shutdown for it to close its running files and perform house keeping (like windows). I have read discussions and suggestions with PLC's available to perform this. The point being, the above PC/Monitor stuff as discussed is eventually going to be needed at some point in the life of the pinball 2000 pinball machine. Most owners don't want to deal with this sort of techo shit, they just want to play the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pinball god Posted November 30, 2018 Author Share Posted November 30, 2018 So what's the chances of a jjp monitor being available in 5 years time? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ctucker Posted December 1, 2018 Share Posted December 1, 2018 So what's the chances of a jjp monitor being available in 5 years time? My guess, I would think a wafer thin plastic OLED ‘paper’ will replace just about all conventional tubes, LCD and LED, wall paper, paint and conventional lighting fixtures just about everywhere in the not too distant future. Sent from my iPhone using Aussie Arcade Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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