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What Is Inside A Anti-Ghosting Pinball LED Bulb?.


Autosteve

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As the question states. I need to replace a heap of bulbs on a Bally SS machine and I am thinking rather than just replace the bulb for an LED style, I'll go further and make a board that mounts to the playfield using the original bulb socket mounting screws and then I can replace the sockets as well and the board mounted LED/LEDs can sit inside the bulb insert itself.

Problem is I don't know exactly if any extra parts are used inside an LED pinball bulb. Anyone have any ideas in the way of a diagram?.

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Hi Steve

 

Are you thinking of using a socket mounted to a board as used in GTB System 3 games, or a surface mounted LED like on current games?

 

Cool idea. I'll see if I have any non ghosting ones which I can pull apart.

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Hi Steve

 

Are you thinking of using a socket mounted to a board as used in GTB System 3 games, or a surface mounted LED like on current games?

 

Cool idea. I'll see if I have any non ghosting ones which I can pull apart.

 

I'm thinking take away the socket, make a small PC board that uses the original lamp socket's screw to hold the board flat to the playfield. The board has the parts like the resistors and the LED/LEDs soldered directly to it including the wires from the harness. Advantages are no socket, no metal lamp holder to short out on, a board you can change the LED colour and intensity simply de-soldering and soldering in alternative parts, less connections that can fail and ridiculously cheap to make as opposed to a socket and bulb. Machines originally used sockets to replace blown bulbs easily. LEDs last so long so this isn't an issue these days but we still persist with sockets and bulbs even though the bulbs are now LED. I'm just thinking to simplify the whole current setup.

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I'm thinking take away the socket, make a small PC board that uses the original lamp socket's screw to hold the board flat to the playfield. The board has the parts like the resistors and the LED/LEDs soldered directly to it including the wires from the harness. Advantages are no socket, no metal lamp holder to short out on, a board you can change the LED colour and intensity simply de-soldering and soldering in alternative parts, less connections that can fail and ridiculously cheap to make as opposed to a socket and bulb. Machines originally used sockets to replace blown bulbs easily. LEDs last so long so this isn't an issue these days but we still persist with sockets and bulbs even though the bulbs are now LED. I'm just thinking to simplify the whole current setup.

 

Sounds like what you mean are what are in the games like Transformers, Xmen and Metallica etc.

they are just the small pbc with smd and resistors or a capacitor for non ghosting.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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Sounds like what you mean are what are in the games like Transformers, Xmen and Metallica etc.

they are just the small pbc with smd and resistors or a capacitor for non ghosting.

Yes. Correct

I want to know what electronic parts that go inside an anti ghosting LED bulb so I can mount those parts and the LED on a small PC board to replace the need for the socket and the dedicated pinball LED bulb. I'm pretty sure there is a cap and a voltage dropping resistor, ( so it can run on the 6vDC), and I will add a load resistor on the board as well so it can run on Bally lamp driver boards.

Idea is replace the socket and the anti ghosting LED bulb with just one small PC board you solder the lamp wire and the common to.

Use the same screw that held the socket to hold the PC board. Should make for a much cleaner under playfield with all the lamp boards near flush with the playfield plus it will locate the LED up inside the insert hole.

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So when does production begin :)

 

Yer, sort of surprised me no one has made them in the past for the Bally and Stern SS and to a lesser degree Gottlieb market saving people from replacing those old lamp sockets.

Thanks to @Dedrok I was able to find modern Stern use something very similar like this...

 

http://cdn1.bigcommerce.com/n-63unu/mgfr9h3/products/4138/images/5001/520-5307-00__79448.1461773605.1280.1280.JPG?c=2

 

These Stern ones only look to have the LED and a dropping resistor so not really suitable for the earlier machines.

 

My idea is to make something similar but you put in the LED colour and type of your choice and the suitable dropping resistor for that LED and also have a load resistor and possibly other parts all on the board to stop the strobing effect.

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Yer, sort of surprised me no one has made them in the past for the Bally and Stern SS and to a lesser degree Gottlieb market saving people from replacing those old lamp sockets.

Thanks to @Dedrok I was able to find modern Stern use something very similar like this...

 

http://cdn1.bigcommerce.com/n-63unu/mgfr9h3/products/4138/images/5001/520-5307-00__79448.1461773605.1280.1280.JPG?c=2

 

These Stern ones only look to have the LED and a dropping resistor so not really suitable for the earlier machines.

 

My idea is to make something similar but you put in the LED colour and type of your choice and the suitable dropping resistor for that LED and also have a load resistor and possibly other parts all on the board to stop the strobing effect.

 

Yes. That’s them.

So you just want to add the 1K resistors as 477 aren’t quite enough in the Bally. And you just need to put the capacitor (which we need to find rating) inline as well.

 

The non ghostings have the cap inline to the lead coming out that then bends to fit the socket on 555s.

 

I’m not at home to measure it but I have a few dud ones that I could sacrifice.

 

So I would imagine that changing the stern resistor (or leaving if good) to 1K and then adding capacitor after it up where the wires solder on would work fine.

 

But for old Bally there was no ghosting, so would only require the resistance.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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Yes. That’s them.

So you just want to add the 1K resistors as 477 aren’t quite enough in the Bally. And you just need to put the capacitor (which we need to find rating) inline as well.

 

The non ghostings have the cap inline to the lead coming out that then bends to fit the socket on 555s.

 

I’m not at home to measure it but I have a few dud ones that I could sacrifice.

 

So I would imagine that changing the stern resistor (or leaving if good) to 1K and then adding capacitor after it up where the wires solder on would work fine.

 

But for old Bally there was no ghosting, so would only require the resistance.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

Yep that is pretty much it. The resistor on the Stern board is to reduce the voltage to that required for that LED. That resistor will vary depending on the colour LED used and also the brightness desired. You could use this calculator to work out exactly what resistor value is required...

 

http://led.linear1.org/1led.wiz

 

To use the calulator you click in the blank rectangle beside "source voltage" and enter the LED supply voltage. 6volt will do here being pretty close to what a pinball uses for the lamps.

"diode forward voltage" is going to be the voltage that colour LED requires.

http://talkingelectronics.com/projects/30%20LED%20Projects/images/LED-Colour.gif

 

And lastly, "diode forward current". 10mA will do most LEDs as a starter. You want it brighter, raise this to 20mA. Duller, drop it to 5mA etc.

 

Click on "Find R" and the required resistor value will be calculated for the resistor needed that goes in series with the LED.

 

You put a resistor in between the lamp supply wire and the common wire that goes to all the lamps, (the bare wire braid), and that is the load resistor. Make that a 1k resistor and it should stop all the strobing you get on Bally SS machines when using LEDs. This resistor is there in parallel to the LED circuit to put a larger load on the SCR to hold it on rather than just strobe on and off.

 

As for the capacitor, I suspect that is to hold the power to the LED so it doesn't flicker. Not real sure if that is needed on Bally SS machines. Maybe it is inside the LED lamps. I really have no idea.

 

Some LED lamps also have a rectifier inside but I think that is only needed if the lamp supply voltage is AC.

 

Be interesting to see what parts you find inside and where they go in the circuit.

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Yep that is pretty much it. The resistor on the Stern board is to reduce the voltage to that required for that LED. That resistor will vary depending on the colour LED used and also the brightness desired. You could use this calculator to work out exactly what resistor value is required...

 

http://led.linear1.org/1led.wiz

 

To use the calulator you click in the blank rectangle beside "source voltage" and enter the LED supply voltage. 6volt will do here being pretty close to what a pinball uses for the lamps.

"diode forward voltage" is going to be the voltage that colour LED requires.

http://talkingelectronics.com/projects/30%20LED%20Projects/images/LED-Colour.gif

 

And lastly, "diode forward current". 10mA will do most LEDs as a starter. You want it brighter, raise this to 20mA. Duller, drop it to 5mA etc.

 

Click on "Find R" and the required resistor value will be calculated for the resistor needed that goes in series with the LED.

 

You put a resistor in between the lamp supply wire and the common wire that goes to all the lamps, (the bare wire braid), and that is the load resistor. Make that a 1k resistor and it should stop all the strobing you get on Bally SS machines when using LEDs. This resistor is there in parallel to the LED circuit to put a larger load on the SCR to hold it on rather than just strobe on and off.

 

As for the capacitor, I suspect that is to hold the power to the LED so it doesn't flicker. Not real sure if that is needed on Bally SS machines. Maybe it is inside the LED lamps. I really have no idea.

 

Some LED lamps also have a rectifier inside but I think that is only needed if the lamp supply voltage is AC.

 

Be interesting to see what parts you find inside and where they go in the circuit.

 

I think from memory that the capacitor is to stop some leaking to the adjacent columns.

So on some b/w and stern games, an led with no cap, will then ghost the whole column.

 

The ocd boards not only handle this but also the time out phase for special effects.

 

As far as old SS games, capacitor is not needed.

 

I’ll take 50 of ea colour thanks.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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