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Thread: Australian Arcade Championships - 17th & 18th of August 2019

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Barra View Post
    Bit confused by this
    Less hangovers.
    I'd save a fortune.
    Not see multiball where there isn't one.
    Maybe play better.


    Oh who the F..K am I kidding I'd be as miserable as a Wallaby in a room full of All Blacks without a few medicinal ales

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jimmy Nails View Post
    Sorry @John73 but I have to agree with Jon T on this one. We have other comps that are in that format. The brief for this event was something a little different with lot's of strategy. I think the format, which for the most part was copied from the arcade event at Replay FX, does both of these things perfectly.

    Variation on format is very important. Some work, some don't. Some suit players strong in one area, some in other areas. That's the whole point and the fun part of going to lot's of different events and being challenged in different ways.

    I personally can't wait to see how this format plays out. That said, we could always trial the format one morning at Arcade Club and see how it plays out and it would be great if you could come along and give some feedback.

    I also think people could potentially play both the Masters and AAC qualifying on the Saturday. It will be flat out exhausting but your arcade comp games could easily be played between rounds of the Masters. Again, you will not have a second to spare but it could mean you get to choose to play either events finals the next day.
    My main point, which I obviously didn't make clear, is that if a pinball competition was organised in this fashion, the competition organisers would be sacrificed for running such a competition. Either you are a good gamer across all games, or you aren't -there are no free passes to the next round and that it is what I'm afraid is happening in this format.

    I don't understand why Arcade is treated differently tbh.

    The idea of Brisbane Masters and most pinball competitions is that you must be competent at all games - yes or no? You don't know what you'll have to play. Yet for some reason, Arcade is treated as a 2nd class citizen - that is what I don't get.

    And just FYI - no, it has nothing to do with me winning, let alone making top 4 and getting some prize money. I'm no chance, but I'll still play. This is about having competitive matches in the top 16 - as in stands, play only 5 or 10 games to qualify - the first round of 16 will be complete mismatches - guys/gals who can only play one genre will be stupid if they don't take their preferred genre in the first round to advance to the final 8 - they'll quickly be eliminated in the round of 8.

    To bill something as Australian Championships - strategy/luck should have as little to do with it as possible - pinball does have a lot higher degree of luck than arcade, but that is just how it will always be. I'm just not a fan of luck of in Arcade competition over skill. Just my 2 cents.

    I'm not on the committee - so you can run it how you see fit, I'm just adding my input to hopefully make this a great competition.

    I didn't see the "brief" and I'm not on the committee - but to me, the brief doesn't take into account that arcade games are not pinball. Strategy is one thing, but putting strategy ahead of skill is another thing entirely.

    To rehash my point - I don't understand why strategy is so important in an arcade competition when pinball players would lynch you for doing it to them.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Tanna94 View Post
    The purpose of the qualifying rounds is not to determine who the best player is across all 20 or so games in the tournament. It is to gain entry into the finals. A player may choose to do the bare minimum to qualify by only playing 5 credits total or by playing all 30, it is up to them. To ask players to play a credit on all 20 games in one day would be a big ask. On finals day even the final two players will only play a total of 14 credits each.
    And this is another point I just plain don't get - what is the point of qualifying if you aren't looking for the highest seed?

    You are looking for people who can get 500 pts (if 5 games are for qualifying) or 1000 pts (if 10 games are for qualifying).

    You have 30 credits at your disposal - if you don't use them all, you're an idiot - what is the difference between playing 6 games each of 5 different games you specialise at, or playing 20 games, one of each game and then using the remaining credits to improve on games you are doing worst at?

    I still feel like the format is a lottery - it will focus players on only playing a few games so they rank highest in qualifying, which will give them the best possibly chance of winning - i.e strategy has way to much weight over skill.

    As a format, wouldn't it make sense once you get to the semi-finals (4 players left) that each person has a pretty much equal chance of qualifying for the finals - in this format, the higher seed will easily progress because they will be competent on more games. The semi's will be a blow out, and I'm pretty sure the GF will be a blow out also where one player has absolutely no chance of winning because of the game selection process after you qualify top 16.
    Last edited by John73; 19th February 2019 at 10:14 PM.

  3. #23
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    @John73 this is a tried and true format used at Replay FX. It has worked for them for years so I am not sure what the hesitation is with using it on this occasion.

    As for your comments regarding pinball formats and being crucified for using such a format we are using a very similar format for a pinball event on the Thursday and Friday before Masters.

    There are dozens of pinball formats. Some people like certain formats, some hate others and simply avoid formats they don't like or that don't suit their playing style. Skill and strategy are often awarded in equal measure though some formats can reward one over the other. That's part of the fun of going to different events and being challenged in different ways.

    We can dissect this for months but until the event has played out in front of us we simply have to trust the Replay FX format. All in all this is supposed to be a fun event to encourage new players and showcase what the competitive scene has to offer in Brisbane.

    I'm sorry you don't like the format mate but as far as I am concerned it looks great. I hope from here on out, as a fellow tournament director, you will trust Jon and I to do a great job. I hope like everyone else you will give the format a go and see how it plays out and take the challenge head on.

  4. #24
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    [QUOTE=RMacauley;1226449

    Oh who the F..K am I kidding I'd be as miserable as a Wallaby in a room full of All Blacks without a few medicinal ales [/QUOTE]

    Hope we catch up sometime this year ....watching the AB's and Wallabies
    Pinball Meets...I love em

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jimmy Nails View Post
    @John73
    As for your comments regarding pinball formats and being crucified for using such a format we are using a very similar format for a pinball event on the Thursday and Friday before Masters.
    My concern is that strategy has too much priority over all round skill. Even in different pinball competitions, skill plays the higher priority - though luck has more of a part in pinball than it does in arcade. My comments are not that the best overall player over the 20 odd games won't win, there is a very very good chance that one of them will - but it will be at the expense of very good all round players who get knocked out early by "specialists". I can see (and I hope I don't) that the GF will be a complete mismatch between an all round player and someone that makes it there due to strategy. Is the pinnacle of the weekend for pinball the Brisbane Masters, or is it the events on Thursday or Friday night?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jimmy Nails View Post
    I'm sorry you don't like the format mate but as far as I am concerned it looks great. I hope from here on out, as a fellow tournament director, you will trust Jon and I to do a great job. I hope like everyone else you will give the format a go and see how it plays out and take the challenge head on.
    Well I will trust Jon, but it seems like the format was decided upon without consultation from many other people with a lot of arcade background, including those who have played in countless arcade competitions, run then, be they live or online. It is not about not "liking" the format, is it is about ensuring the best all round players make it as far as possible into the competition - this will not happen in this format, and I'm very sorry if you can't see that. The top 8 players are guaranteed a free pass in this format into the next round, the top 4 players are guaranteed a free pass to the smi's - and they may not be good players, just specialist players who can only play a handful of the 20 odd games.

    I appreciate that you and Jon don't like my input, I'm just wanting this to be a great competition, and at this stage it just looks like we'll just have to see how it all pans out.

    My overall concern as I've stated, is that to bill this as the Australian Championships - it should not involve luck (which it rarely does in Arcade, and it most certainly shouldn't involved strategy) - if you are looking for the best player.... "The Champion" they should be the best player on the machines served up.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Jimmy Nails View Post
    As for your comments regarding pinball formats and being crucified for using such a format we are using a very similar format for a pinball event on the Thursday and Friday before Masters.
    If you are referring to "Flip Frenzy" then I don't really think this is the same thing. Winning a flip frenzy, while important and a great accomplishment, I'm not sure is classed in the same league as "The Masters" champion. Ask the pinball players, would you like to be known as the Flip Frenzy winner, or would you like to be the Brisbane Masters winner - Brisbane Masters puts players to a more grilling format, where the winner really does have to showcase skill and the emphasis on skill is higher on all games in the competition, not just the games they prefer.

    This is the only "main" competition for weekend for arcade... this is the Australian Arcade Championships - so I'm saying, if you changed the whole format of Brisbane Masters to allow strategy to play such a high role in the outcome, yes... you would have pinball players jumping up and down and not liking the proposed format. Yes, I guaranteed you would be crucified for running an event in this manner.

    How many pinball competitions find the top 16 and then give "strategy" to the top 8 players when selecting games? Put me in a pinball game against someone like yourself where you qualify higher so you get to pick games 1 and 3 and I get to pick game 2 - there is a chance I might beat you just out of luck - pinball is fickle. My chance of beating you might only be 5% or lower, but there is a chance.

    Put you in an arcade competition against me, Barra or any number of arcade players, and you are no chance - there is no point you even playing if you don't finish in the top 8 of the 16, because you will just not win. Arcade does not have the luck factor that pinball grants people. Your chance of beating me or an arcade player is 0% - you simply will have no chance. I don't understand how this makes for an exciting competition, nor helps find the best player of arcade gamer in Australia.

    But as it stands, it seems the format is decided upon with very little consultation with all round arcade players, just those with a background in one game - so there is really no point even continuing this debate
    Last edited by John73; 21st February 2019 at 01:03 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jimmy Nails View Post

    I personally can't wait to see how this format plays out. That said, we could always trial the format one morning at Arcade Club and see how it plays out and it would be great if you could come along and give some feedback.
    Not really sure what the point of this would be as it seems the format for the AAC has already been decided upon - but happy to give it a go if you want.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Jimmy Nails View Post
    @John73 this is a tried and true format used at Replay FX. It has worked for them for years so I am not sure what the hesitation is with using it on this occasion.
    Just because that is their format, does not mean it is the best format. Just not sure why we have to "copy" a format without looking at alternatives

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by John73 View Post
    My main point, which I obviously didn't make clear, is that if a pinball competition was organised in this fashion, the competition organisers would be sacrificed for running such a competition. Either you are a good gamer across all games, or you aren't -there are no free passes to the next round and that it is what I'm afraid is happening in this format.
    There are many large pinball tournaments around the world that use a similar format - Take INDISC for example: http://www.indisc.com/tournament-rules/

    Main difference I see is that this arcade comp allows 30 attempts across machines, INDISC allows 1 attempt at 5 machines 'per card', and players are allowed to purchase unlimited cards. The 'pick the machines you're best at' strategy is the same in both, you don't have to play all.

  8. #28
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    To win the AAC you will need to play up to 14 games out of the 20 odd available through finals. You will get to choose 8 of those and your various opponents the other 6 in which they are very likely to choose games you are not competent in or that both of you suck at to level the playing field (like choosing to play an EM pinball in a tournament against a higher skilled player to equalise your chances).

    You can not win this tournament only specialising on 5 games. Being only able to choose a game once through the finals sequence means you will need to be competent in every single game at the event love or hate it. We all know what can happen in finals so even if your opponent chooses a game they specialise in they may bomb out due to a tough run of boards or plain old pressure.

    Being good at the majority of these games plus having the strategic nous to navigate the finals in my mind is definitely going to find an Australian Arcade Champion.

  9. #29
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    Please let us fellows all the way over here in Western Australia know all the details in time enough to come over snd put a good western feel to this awesome event .can't wait .
    Thanks Ashman0011 IMG_20190226_100007.jpeg

    Sent from my CPH1803 using Aussie Arcade mobile app

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jimmy Nails View Post
    To win the AAC you will need to play up to 14 games out of the 20 odd available through finals. You will get to choose 8 of those and your various opponents the other 6 in which they are very likely to choose games you are not competent in or that both of you suck at to level the playing field (like choosing to play an EM pinball in a tournament against a higher skilled player to equalise your chances).

    You can not win this tournament only specialising on 5 games. Being only able to choose a game once through the finals sequence means you will need to be competent in every single game at the event love or hate it. We all know what can happen in finals so even if your opponent chooses a game they specialise in they may bomb out due to a tough run of boards or plain old pressure.

    Being good at the majority of these games plus having the strategic nous to navigate the finals in my mind is definitely going to find an Australian Arcade Champion.
    My point though, is that players who are good and/or great across 14+ games could be knocked out early by specialist players on half or less of the games in this format.

    I still fail to see or understand, why making players play every single game during qualifying is such a hard thing - it will give a true qualifying top 16 and therefore give the tournament the best chance at seeing the No 1 and No 2 qualifiers (which won't be me) battle it out in the final.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Zzap View Post
    There are many large pinball tournaments around the world that use a similar format - Take INDISC for example: http://www.indisc.com/tournament-rules/

    Main difference I see is that this arcade comp allows 30 attempts across machines, INDISC allows 1 attempt at 5 machines 'per card', and players are allowed to purchase unlimited cards. The 'pick the machines you're best at' strategy is the same in both, you don't have to play all.
    Pinball V Arcade is not really the same - it's not comparing apples with apples. I've beaten some of the best pinball players in Australia in comps - this is "luck" rather than skill. Put me against a guy like Lambo, Jimmy or Chris Wade (or any number of other players in Brisbane) in 100 games of a particular pinball machine and I'll win a few at least - put them in an arcade game against me that I know, and they are 0% of winning.

    We are talking in the case of AAC of introducing "luck" in the form of "strategy" into a genre (arcade in this case) where it shouldn't be a factor. Arcade doesn't need luck - it's the same for every single player on the majority of games. Even look at games like Donkey Kong which are probably have more RNG factors than most arcade games - put me against a guy like Robbie Lakeman or John McCurdy - luck does not play such a role in winning as it does with pinball.


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