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Warranty. New games


Wotto

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Racv man I think it’s called extra care around 200 a year and any car u drive if it breaks down they tow it for free for you .

 

 

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Sadly not any car.

One time when my Cadillac transmission went and I needed towing, being approx. 7.5m long they said no they can't help at all as its too long. It's not a commercial vehicle, no special registration, but they said they wouldn't touch it. I cancelled my RAA (South Australia RACV) the next day.

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No consumer law on pinballs with a coin door, commercial coin op product, you can offer an extended warranty at a cost for consumer customers for in home repairs

 

 

Take the coin door off a different story, it has been tested many times, parts only replacement does not include labour.

 

 

We include labour if bought into our workshop but not onsite.

 

 

We resellers have bent those rules a bit, but there would be no pinball dealers in Australia if the warranty for parts and labour was 12 months when you make $500-$1000 a game margin.

 

Ahaha, nice try but that is Bullshit, if you sell to a consumer its covered By a consumer ACL by law. Coin mech or no coin mech.

Where the hell did you get this BS idea from?

 

I would suggest you go Look at the law on this.

 

Please point to the law where it says A coin mech makes it void of Consumer laws?

 

anyway Ive sent an email off to ACCC asking the question, Will know soon enough, I havent mentioned names its a general Inquiry.

Not that it wasnt made clear enough in that ACCC link I provided in previous Post.

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No consumer law on pinballs with a coin door, commercial coin op product, you can offer an extended warranty at a cost for consumer customers for in home repairs

 

 

Take the coin door off a different story, it has been tested many times, parts only replacement does not include labour.

 

 

We include labour if bought into our workshop but not onsite.

 

 

We resellers have bent those rules a bit, but there would be no pinball dealers in Australia if the warranty for parts and labour was 12 months when you make $500-$1000 a game margin.

 

There’s no question ACL does apply to a home user buying a pinball machine for home use. It’s like saying ACL doesn’t apply to an oven because they’re also used in commercial kitchens or a drill because they’re also used by a tradie. Anyone ruling on these issues will use a common sense approach.

 

Having said that, the same common sense approach would probably also say it’s unreasonable for a warranty issue to be fixed on-site, since buying a pinball machine that is typically for commercial use should require some basic technical knowledge.

 

We all know the margins aren’t there to warrant full on-site repairs on an imported pinball machine, but at the same time pretending the local importer is not responsible for warranty obligations of an imported item is completely misleading.

 

 

 

 

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We are happy to offer lifetime Warranty if customer pays enough

 

Chicago Gaming offers 2 year Warranty on some items

 

as I said if the ACL applies to New Pinball Machines then all our prices will increase overnight

 

which people will then import games themselves with no ACL

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We are happy to offer lifetime Warranty if customer pays enough

 

Chicago Gaming offers 2 year Warranty on some items

 

as I said if the ACL applies to New Pinball Machines then all our prices will increase overnight

 

which people will then import games themselves with no ACL

 

I think the point is that It’s not your choice whether ACL applies or not. You’re just relying on the goodwill of your customers to be “reasonable” about it.

 

 

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This is a commercial product, just because you may collect a commercial product to have in your house doesn't mean the distributor needs to change for your needs. Home consumer law doesn't apply.

If distributors start having issues with customers the 2 most logical scenarios are either increase the price or stop selling to home use buyers - neither of which anyone here would want.

You want better warranty you have to pay for it.

I've personally never once worried about warranty on any product used for business, if there is an issue I'm just relieved if the distributor has the replacement part in stock and will send it out express immediately. Cost means nothing when a commercial item is out of action because as a business you are losing money when it is not working. If the distributor comes back saying its under warranty and they'll cover cost, well then that's a great bonus, otherwise just pay for the part and move on.

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We are happy to offer lifetime Warranty if customer pays enough

 

Chicago Gaming offers 2 year Warranty on some items

 

as I said if the ACL applies to New Pinball Machines then all our prices will increase overnight

 

which people will then import games themselves with no ACL

 

The laws are pretty clear-cut, read for your self. https://www.accc.gov.au/consumers/consumer-rights-guarantees/repair-replace-refund

 

you cant just make up laws for your self, the gov has done that for you

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Really depends on the end user, not the product itself.

 

big difference in

consumer product

commercial product

industrial product

 

difference between a consumer and commercial warranty is that a consumer warranty is typically warranted to carry-in-service,

whereas a commercial warranty likely covers on-site service

 

scenario , i want 12 months warranty and i get that but now my pinball has a problem i can't fix but i'm in Vic and i bought it from AMD

and they say sure bring it in and we'll fix it , i for one can imagine shipping it back to have a fuse replaced

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I can also tell you 80% of our customers have been buying games in a Business Name, no doubt claiming on a business or claiming GST, so where does your ACL apply here?

 

Those who buy it for a business in a commercial Situation is when your warranty can differ for a commercial situation. Get it yet? Its about the end user, not the actual item it self, you are selling to the general public as well as businesses.

So when You sell to a Consumer its covered Under the ACL, When you sell to a Business who uses it for a commercial Situation then it would be treated as such in that situation.

 

again where is the link on the ACCC that states having a coin mech makes the sale of an item to Consumers exempt from ACL???

 

think you will find thats for consumer product and not a commercial one as pinball are

 

The fact the item is a commercial Product Is irrelevant, its about who the item is being sold to. Business or Consumer. If sold to a consumer then ACL applies.

The item is being sold To the general Public so yes it is about Consumer rights.

So the warranty is only varied when the customer is a business. BUT It must have that mentioned on the warranty card if the warranty Differs for Commercial situation.

 

The ACL thing maybe different only if the Commercial item is withheld From sale to the general public, Eg a business supplier who only sells business to business, customers with an ABN not the general Public, that is one instance Where the ACL isnt relevant to commercial Items.

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yes well if you have an abn the games will be one price and without a more expensive price

see how quick you all go out and get an abn to pay less

 

I said it had a coin door not a coin mech, I said if it had no coin door that might be different, go get some glasses and read

 

regardless of what you are saying, If Pinball Machines are to be covered by ACL we will no longer sell them to consumers or will increase the price to cover the Warranty, the consumer will end up paying for the warranty in the end, That is life as there is no money in the margins to offer such a warranty

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yes well if you have an abn the games will be one price and without a more expensive price

see how quick you all go out and get an abn to pay less

 

then you would be breaking the law, especially with evidence shown here By that post blatantly stating in a effort to avoid Consumer rights.

there is a Consumer Law this would fall under which called the "Unconscionable conduct"

not only that would Breach ACL guidelines, and wouldnt exempt you from current Customers.

 

that one will get you a fair fine I would imagine. Stupid thing to say on a public forum, It also Shows your customers You have no willingness to offer them their Rights as a consumer.

 

you cant just chuck a tanty when you are found doing the wrong thing, and then expect Customers to cough up for your mistakes.

This is exactly why we have these laws in the country, to protect people from Unscrupulous businesses.

 

I would have thought the smarter thing todo would be contact the companies you buy from, explain to them the Consumer laws in the country and figure out a solution that works with you and doesn't f--k over the customers also. They want to sell in this country they do have responsibilities and not only that would benefit from looking after the Person who is selling their product.

 

This is business mate, there is costs to doing Business, those costs are hard I know that But we all have to deal with it.

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I suggest you also Blast AMD and all other sellers of Commercial Goods that offer a parts replacement Warranty Only

 

Originally the comments seemed to be directed as a general Question and then what looks tobe an AMD Warranty was posted, I think you walked into the fire. Up untill then I dont think you were mentioned by the OP or other posters?

 

but yes if that warranty sheet that was posted on the first page is indeed AMD's warranty terms and conditions, then They do have something to answer for. It does seem a bit odd and doesn't seem to match up with what is listed on the ACCC website.

 

It also doesn't look good when you saw People who had cab decal problems on their brand new Stern machines which were crap from factory, but the solution for the problem was being sent New decals in the mail for them to fit them selves. things like that are not good practices and are not lawful.

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Spoke to ACCC.

These "Consumer Guarantees" are completely independent /separate issue to the general "Warranty"

 

ANY item sold to a consumer in Australia under 40k is covered by consumer guarantees - pinball machines included.

Coin door/ coin mech / commercial item sold for home use - doesnt matter - pinball machines are covered by these guarantees ( reasonable expectations / acceptable quality etc ).

 

"In general" ( please note I stated 'in general" ) re-sellers may be able to claim back any costs/expenses in relation to servicing and also the cost of ( these ) consumer guarantee issues back to the original manufacturer ( depending on their agreed trading terms ) , so ultimately there could be zero nett cost to re-sellers ( this happens in our industry as well , always been that way with every manufacturer - hundreds of them - no cost to us BUT we make sure clients issue is resolved , then submit our 'claim' for re-imbursements).

 

Most manufacturers ( not resellers ) already have a built in $$ contingency in every item to cover these unknown future costs and the anticipated average costs of offered warranty period ( we are already paying for it - taken up or not ) , so a rare claim here and there that couldnt be resolved at customer/reseller/ manufacturer level should see no increase affect on pricing.

 

It appears that all re-sellers here in OZ are doing the right thing anyway and looking after customers and I am sure that communication between AUS hobbyists and current re-sellers will continue to see good results , but this info is good to know just in case anyone has a MAJOR issue down the track at some stage that couldnt be resolved and you at least have the right to investigate options, at the end of the day its our rights as buyers.

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Businesses have consumer rights on purchases too - https://www.business.gov.au/products-and-services/fair-trading/your-consumer-rights-as-a-business

 

There's pretty clear rules on that site about when they do and don't apply.

 

I think the key here is around reasonable expectations of quality etc. Pinball machines are complex machinery that require maintenance. Then again, there are certain parts of them that you don't expect to fail.

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I think the key here is around reasonable expectations of quality etc. Pinball machines are complex machinery that require maintenance. Then again, there are certain parts of them that you don't expect to fail.

 

This is what I was saying earlier. Pinballs are notorious for breaking right? A reasonable consumer doesn't buy one expecting it to operate perfectly for 10 years.

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It appears that all re-sellers here in OZ are doing the right thing anyway and looking after customers and I am sure that communication between AUS hobbyists and current re-sellers will continue to see good results , but this info is good to know just in case anyone has a MAJOR issue down the track at some stage that couldnt be resolved and you at least have the right to investigate options, at the end of the day its our rights as buyers.

 

 

they arent exactly doing the right thing, But the manufacturers have a big share of the blame, but as a seller you do have a care of duty to make sure your customers are being served well By the manufacturer under consumer laws and if not the seller is accountable.

So it would be in their best interest to contact the Manufacturers and sort out the issues seeing that now being made aware of these laws.

 

If i was in these guys situation I would be on the phone today to the pinball companies and explaining the situation and the laws they need to abide by, the same laws every other manufacturer and seller has to abide by when trading here.

Because its the sellers arse who is directly in the firing line, and the one who would like see legal challenges and wear the costs.

 

It boggles my brain that a company who is selling this stuff didnt actually know the laws.

But This thread has been great, and the topic was needed, I think many pinball buyers have learnt a bit more about their rights thanks to this topic, so good thread

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Sounds like a plan. When can we start?

 

None of that here please guys.

 

Started a thread to get good info for all buyers / hobbyists and discuss this in a constructive / positive way as I feel it is important we all know where we stand, with these games up over 10k these days its a big big spend for most.

 

Please keep civil and on track - appreciated :)

 

- - - Updated - - -

 

This is what I was saying earlier. Pinballs are notorious for breaking right? A reasonable consumer doesn't buy one expecting it to operate perfectly for 10 years.

 

No - you're right - but I would personally expect a good 5 years out of the electronics for a HUO game.

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