Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 26

Thread: BALLY / STERN Solid State Custom Playfields

  1. #1

    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    State
    Nsw
    Posts
    535
    Mentioned
    72 Post(s)
    Quoted
    177 Post(s)
    Australia

    BALLY / STERN Solid State Custom Playfields

    Utilisation of the latest Bally Stern Multi CPU gave @slevbro and I an idea

    for those unfamiliar with the MPU they can dipswitch set to over 30 different games...
    http://www.allteksystems.com/alltek-...mpu-board.html
    We want to redo them

    The building of new and existing Playfields using the *rulesets of existing games.
    These playfields will be plug and play into a standard Bally / Stern cabinet.

    A custom late model style Super Solid State Cabinet is to be made to allow longer playfields ( Mata Hari V2 is awesome) to incorperate ramps , toys , Multiball ,LCD etc...onto
    a standard head.This cab could also allow the drop in of a standard Bally / Stern playfield.

    Why? Space for one thing... more so the ability to add more unique games to your existing hardware.

    Process
    **Backglass - existing / new design playfield - set dipswitches - shazzam new game!


    * Simple modification of rulesets would be done under each playfield effectively interrupting some switch hits to extend gameplay , Lighting etc.
    ** Super cabinet will use a video image.


    A Playfield which has be designed around the rules for PARAGON


    The theme is VOYAGER 1 (subject to change without notice)



    Last edited by kress; 1 Week Ago at 09:23 AM.
    fOr No rAIsOn

  2. #2

    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    State
    NSW
    Posts
    1,606
    Mentioned
    60 Post(s)
    Quoted
    559 Post(s)
    Australia
    Cool idea. Iíve thought about the same sort of concept for games like firepower where thereís enough features and rules onboard to support different playfield designs - not unlike what the factoryís were doing back then anyway with bonus x and changing upper rollovers etc. appearing over and over.


    Sent from my iPhone using Aussie Arcade

  3. #3

    Join Date
    Dec 2016
    State
    Barden Ridge NSW
    Posts
    3,101
    Mentioned
    160 Post(s)
    Quoted
    1144 Post(s)
    Australia
    Pretty much the same board set I intend on using...Bally 35 mainly I'm looking at and you make the game around the original game rule set and make swap over playfields to suit utilizing the original game rule set.
    Not really interested in prior 7 digit games though but that still leaves many Bally SS games to choose game rulesets from.

    More time making the machine rather than spending time doing the electronics using known good working boards and rule sets that work.

    Highly reliable board sets as well.

  4. #4

    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    State
    Nsw
    Posts
    535
    Mentioned
    72 Post(s)
    Quoted
    177 Post(s)
    Australia

    4 Days into this project

    Switches in , Mecs in , Insert locations in and Rules
    finalised.
    Slevbro will be wiring switches and Mecs during the week to the Bally standards.
    The playfield will be tested on a Paragon head.

    Beyond that the Inserts and lighting will be installed.

    IMG_20190107_071431701.jpg

    IMG_20190107_073414153.jpg

    IMG_20190107_073422776.jpg
    Attached Images Attached Images
    fOr No rAIsOn

  5. #5

    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    State
    Sunshine Coast
    Posts
    674
    Mentioned
    32 Post(s)
    Quoted
    91 Post(s)
    Australia
    cool ideas, this could actually be a good little business model for someone wanting to do a startup "custom playfield routing" service. This would open up the possibilities for anyone to redesign a PF the way they imagine. Obviously the designs may be a little hit and miss at times but that is part of the process/fun.

    Interesting to see how far the interest goes back to more simple rulesets and game layouts vs the Starwars style deeper rules style. Of course it will be different for all and this is just one other option to some to "give it a go" and get involved in another aspect of this awesome hobby.

    Keep up the great work, will be following to see where this goes.

    Out of interest what are you going to do with the dead space top left area, left side of pop bumper?

    cheers

  6. #6

    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    State
    Nsw
    Posts
    535
    Mentioned
    72 Post(s)
    Quoted
    177 Post(s)
    Australia

    Quote Originally Posted by pocketmoney View Post
    cool ideas, this could actually be a good little business model for someone wanting to do a startup "custom playfield routing" service. This would open up the possibilities for anyone to redesign a PF the way they imagine. Obviously the designs may be a little hit and miss at times but that is part of the process/fun.

    Interesting to see how far the interest goes back to more simple rulesets and game layouts vs the Starwars style deeper rules style. Of course it will be different for all and this is just one other option to some to "give it a go" and get involved in another aspect of this awesome hobby.

    Keep up the great work, will be following to see where this goes.

    Out of interest what are you going to do with the dead space top left area, left side of pop bumper?

    cheers
    In true solid state fashion that area left and right will be wasted.
    fOr No rAIsOn

  7. #7

    Join Date
    Dec 2016
    State
    Barden Ridge NSW
    Posts
    3,101
    Mentioned
    160 Post(s)
    Quoted
    1144 Post(s)
    Australia
    I think there is a big future in these style of custom pinballs. One day I would like to see a big community with a collection of pinball playfields both owner designed and factory made that the owner can source different games from on a trade or outright buy option, the only thing that remains the same is the cabinet itself that is common to all.

    The cabinet is also available to buy but the main idea is to change playfields rather than a complete machine which much lowers the purchase price and allows the owner to buy the parts that make up a totally different playing machine.
    This allows the owner to buy the parts as finances allow rather than the one fixed price for a complete pinball and the owner can easierly source a totally different set of playfields, switch the dip switches to suit that game and they have totally transformed that game to another. (Console Style Pinball Machines).

    You may find this idea suitable for your setup regarding the wiring. Rather than the conventional wiring harness used for playfields, I was thinking this is a far better, cheaper solution and something a lot more people are far more comfortable using. For my multi playfield design there will be 4 of these, all wired in parallel one for each playfield.

    https://www.gearbest.com/cables-conn...iABEgKfLfD_BwE

    And each playfield has connectors like these that are wired to the playfield's wiring...

    https://www.ebay.com.au/i/152648577944?chn=ps

    One of these plugs should handle all the switch matrix inputs, another plug does all the switched illumination, (one wire per light because Bally only need one and a common unlike Williams that need a full matrix and the main reason I went with the Bally multi board over the Williams equivalent.

    This style connectors for the power to each playfield...



    Doing the playfield wiring in this fashion means the playfield can ship without a long harness on it and the cable that can be damaged is now an easy part to source but it is common to all machines anyway. It also reduces the wiring costs using ready made dependable interconnection cables.

    Interestingly, on my multi playfield cabinet I intend on building, I will incorporate a 4 pole relay on the playfield that makes or breaks all 4 wires coming from the 4 wire power connector and this is to kill that playfield completely when not in use.

    I think we are both pretty much running similar ideas and sharing of ideas should make for more certainty that this revolutionary design of pinball manufacture succeeds.

    Who knows, one day you might be making playfields to suit my machines and I making playfields for yours but it is my intention to have owners and others try creating there own and all adding to the pool of adding games that can be easierly swapped over for other owners to use in there machines.

    Another big driver for this style pinball for me is cost. Every part of design is about less reliance on pinball only parts and more reliance on common cheap parts designed for much larger markets which will much lower costs of production.

    My price range is around $2-3 thousand for a cabinet, that certainly isn't set in stone yet and playfields at around $500-1000 depending on size and complexity making it well within reach of the average hobbyist that can buy parts as finances allow.

    To lower costs even more, the owner should be able to make there own playfields using the data that would be freely available all designed to aid in the job including the wiring and once done they should be able to easierly plug in there own playfield ready to play and making there machine a total custom should they wish or trade the playfield and swap for another either factory made or another owner's design.

  8. #8

    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    State
    Nsw
    Posts
    535
    Mentioned
    72 Post(s)
    Quoted
    177 Post(s)
    Australia

    Cant argue with anything there @Autosteve except maybe the price point of the playfields.
    Whilst this particular playfield so far only owes us around the $200 mark due to the used parts -
    Costings for new parts would result in a price point of closer to $2000 ( 13 x $50USD just for Mecs ).
    Seems expensive but not if you want a Playboy , Kiss , Matahari , Powerplay in your collection - all which now have Lexan artwork stickdown overlays available.Add to that a few playfields that are custom and its a no brainer.
    The big plus for me is a lot of people dont have the room for 5 machines but do have room for 1 pin and a rack of 4 playfields.

    SUPER CABINET PROTOTYPE..............................Standard

    BALLY SUPER CAB.jpgbally stock.jpg
    Last edited by kress; 1 Week Ago at 11:50 AM.
    fOr No rAIsOn

  9. #9

    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    State
    Sunshine Coast
    Posts
    674
    Mentioned
    32 Post(s)
    Quoted
    91 Post(s)
    Australia
    Great to see the ideas floating,



    Quote Originally Posted by Autosteve View Post



    One of these plugs should handle all the switch matrix inputs, another plug does all the switched illumination, (one wire per light because Bally only need one and a common unlike Williams that need a full matrix and the main reason I went with the Bally multi board over the Williams equivalent.
    With simple games this is true, eg for 15 lamps "direct wiring" you can have 64 on a Matrix. Also if not using leds make sure the cables can carry the current, a lot of the computer style cables are made very cheaply and may not like that much current or drop the voltage too much.
    Quote Originally Posted by Autosteve View Post
    This style connectors for the power to each playfield...

    these are not great with high current or voltage unless you parallel some of them up.

    Quote Originally Posted by Autosteve View Post
    Doing the playfield wiring in this fashion means the playfield can ship without a long harness on it and the cable that can be damaged is now an easy part to source but it is common to all machines anyway. It also reduces the wiring costs using ready made dependable interconnection cables.

    Interestingly, on my multi playfield cabinet I intend on building, I will incorporate a 4 pole relay on the playfield that makes or breaks all 4 wires coming from the 4 wire power connector and this is to kill that playfield completely when not in use.
    not sure why the relays, what powers the relay when disconnected from the supply, just make sure power is off before changing playfields? High current/high DC voltage can be tricky with relays, unless you go very high spec.


    I really like the idea of a community of builders adhering to some sort of standardized specs. Commercial building of classics might get you in trouble from the license holders but for "own" use that you build or get built on the QT I am guessing you will be fine.

    Simple games are heaps of fun and with the prices skyrocketing for even the rough ones it may be a way for people to get a machine in their home and have a fun project to work on along the way.

  10. #10

    Join Date
    Dec 2016
    State
    Barden Ridge NSW
    Posts
    3,101
    Mentioned
    160 Post(s)
    Quoted
    1144 Post(s)
    Australia
    Quote Originally Posted by pocketmoney View Post
    Great to see the ideas floating,




    With simple games this is true, eg for 15 lamps "direct wiring" you can have 64 on a Matrix. Also if not using leds make sure the cables can carry the current, a lot of the computer style cables are made very cheaply and may not like that much current or drop the voltage too much.
    Well this idea comes from my machines designed to have multiple playfields and not all driven bulbs are ever going to be all on the one playfield and all lighting will be LED pulling 10-20mA a piece and these cables even though they are designed for data transfer would easierly handle over 20 LEDs through each of the cables. I wouldn't see this to be a problem. If more bulbs are required than the board can handle output wise, then you would start introducing "Auxiliary Lamp Driver Boards" exactly like Bally did or using A and B drives to multiplex like Williams did in System 9-11 board sets.
    Quote Originally Posted by pocketmoney View Post
    these are not great with high current or voltage unless you parallel some of them up.
    It depends on the current wire installed and I figure the red wire would be used for the 12volt DC supply. 12volt because it can be dropped to 5vDC, is easy to drop if required and doubling the voltage means half the current. Should be good for around 6-8 amps I would have thought. More than enough for 12 or 5volt parts on a playfield I would have thought.

    Yellow wire is for the 28vDC for the coils. Not being a multiball machine I would expect nothing more than around 3amps would ever be pulled through the yellow wire.

    The black wires are both ground. Doesn't really matter here because all ground wires on Bally SS are all tied together anyway although one of these may be switched and possibly the coil return ground only.

    Doing it this way with one switched would allow the coil driver transistors to be mounted on a board on the playfield the coils are on. The transistors are all connected via there grounds to this switching ground wire.
    You switch off the ground wire and it kills all the coils on that playfield. Moving the driver transistors to a "transistor board" means there is no need for those on the "Bally Solenoid Driver Board" any longer. The display voltage regulator part of the of the Bally Solenoid board is already not required because I intend on using LED displays so doing it this way should allow removal of the Bally Solenoid Driver board from the board set and replaced with just a 5vDC power supply which is all that the original board would still be doing.

    The transistor drive wires come directly from the original board plug and drive the transistors on that playfield's transistor board directly so no need for multiple high current coil wires per coil leading back into the head. They can all be driven using VGA cable as it now only carries data signals to the transistor. The coil power + is all "daisy chained" to each playfield coil and the transistors on the transistor board now switch the ground returning it to the ground return switched wire in the playfield power cable.

    Quote Originally Posted by pocketmoney View Post

    not sure why the relays, what powers the relay when disconnected from the supply, just make sure power is off before changing playfields? High current/high DC voltage can be tricky with relays, unless you go very high spec.
    My use of these relays is to isolate the coils and lamps to each playfield unless required by the ball actually being on that playfield. Pretty much like Bally does for the coils using a flipper enable relay only this kills the GI lighting and switched illumination as well.

    Quote Originally Posted by pocketmoney View Post

    I really like the idea of a community of builders adhering to some sort of standardized specs. Commercial building of classics might get you in trouble from the license holders but for "own" use that you build or get built on the QT I am guessing you will be fine.

    Simple games are heaps of fun and with the prices skyrocketing for even the rough ones it may be a way for people to get a machine in their home and have a fun project to work on along the way.
    Standards I have to come up with because it is in design stage and unless you have standards, we could end up with what happened in the video market prior to Jamma wiring standards. A massive fuk up where everyone went there own way requiring interconnector harnesses and this project is all about ease of use for the owner.

Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 2 users browsing this thread. (1 members and 1 guests)

  1. kress

Similar Threads

  1. Bally Solid state cookies
    By Railways in forum Pinball
    Replies: 41
    Last Post: 16th December 2012, 12:29 PM
  2. Bally solid state flippers
    By waylander in forum Pinball Technical and Repair Questions
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 11th December 2006, 05:44 PM

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •