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How to wire a timer switch for hallway lights?


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Body corp have had an electrician replace some timer switches (the pneumatic ones that pop out after a minute or so). That was two months and maybe five more visits by the electrician later. I hate to say it, but he may be some rare kind of idiot because we keep telling him the lights are on all the time, just like before we called him. He'll come over, play around with the switches, it'll work once or twice and then they stay on again. Wouldn't that say to you that you have defective switches?

 

Anyway, I've of a mind to say to electrician 'we aren't paying you, we'll get it done without you' and then I can replace them. There is a switch at the top of the stairs, and the bottom. Would I be right in assuming that they are wired much the same way as two light switches in a bedroom? That is to say, one cancels the other out when you switch it?

 

I may even just fit light switches, but only if the wiring is the same.

 

Edit: Finally fixed. Helix Electrical of Carindale. I certainly wouldn't recommend them for repair work. He is either incompetent, or will milk the job for more cushy callout fees. I don't know what is worse. He might be ok for monkeywork on new building sites where the quality isn't that great, but definitely wouldn't recommend for your own home.

Edited by danny_galaga
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They would need to be wired in parallel to work independently.

 

Although not a difficult job, If something was to go wrong it would be a legal minefield and a whole lot of trouble for someone unlicensed to be doing the work.

 

Tell him to GTFO and get another sparky in.

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They would use a special switch mechanism called an intermediate switch & would be wired much the same way as a 2 way set up. Probably the top & the bottom switches would be wired like a 2 way set up then all the in between switches would be intermediates
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So many possibilities like sensors, timer relays etc.

BUT

a decent, reputable sparky is worth the extra coin and get it done right.

Pneumatic switches are very old school, there are more devices that your sparky should be able to source and advise.

 

looking on a pinball forum is NOT the place to ask as we can't see the situation and possible issues that may exist or be created.

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with the push button timer switch there is no need to connect to other switches as they operate light independently to control light. you have to wait until time is up to turn off.my guess faulty switch if it has worked a couple of times should be under warranty.
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The pneumatic light switch is adjustable to allow more or less time for the light to remain on. There is an adjuster on the rear you wind it in or out.

Yes there are other options like a PE Cell that operates from sunset to sunrise, or timers either way you need a licensed electrician to complete the work.

If it hasn't worked properly just get them back it should be covered under warranty, but be ware check your body corporate statement in case they have double dipped.

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Yeah, they are pneumatic switches. Yes old school. But they do the trick and it should have been as simple as- pull the old ones out and put the new ones in. That way they didn't have to do any modifications to the wiring. What's the bet they are busy working on one of the millions of new units just around the corner and they just keeping sending the same apprentice over, who just keeps looking at the same mistake he has made and not seeing or understanding that there is a methodology to problem solving. If it were me, my curiosity would be piqued and I would take the switch off and test with a multimeter. Since they clearly have no time, take them both off, put blanks up and test them in front of the telly. I think we should subtract the cost of the power from the bill. Not that would be all that much, just symbolic :D
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Ok, electrician is going to call me next he is over. Now I’ve seen the emails between the body Corp and him I can predict what is going to happen. The email asks to replace the two switches. So he did. But it doesn’t specifically say make it all work again!

 

I’m gonna sound like an old fogie but in my day if a customer came in and said ‘I want a new battery in my car’ , we wouldn’t just put one in and send them on their merry way. We’d ask why and then test the charging system to make sure that’s not the problem instead. I reckon this guy just figured that’s what we asked for so that’s what we get.

 

Now the old switches were indeed rooted and needed replacing, but perhaps there’s something else wrong and since we didn’t specifically ask, he didn’t specifically offer!

 

I think that’s pretty shitty service. Since the lights stay on all the time if if he still can’t make them work I won’t be paying another cent to him. I’ll just say ‘thanks buddy’ and then find an old school electrician, get him to take out the switches and put blank plates in, and then fit a sensor light like some of you said we should have done i the first place :D

 

Then I’ll put the switches back n eBay :D

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Well, we met up yesterday and finally NOW that I was present he found a timer in the switchboard that was faulty and kept getting stuck. You know, that switch board he would have had to go to turn the power off each time he fiddled with the lights! Problem solved, it's mechanical so he switched it off so the stairway switches are the only thing that turn the lights on now. I was happy to leave it at that because after all if he kept coming out because of poor diagnosis skills, that's no skin off our nose! But now he has sent us another invoice for a callout! Why are we paying for his incompetence? I was very polite with him because after all you just want the job done.

 

But now I'm going to be not so polite! Helix Electrical of Carindale, all lot of business works by word of mouth. Or reviews nowadays.

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Well, we met up yesterday and finally NOW that I was present he found a timer in the switchboard that was faulty and kept getting stuck. You know, that switch board he would have had to go to turn the power off each time he fiddled with the lights! Problem solved, it's mechanical so he switched it off so the stairway switches are the only thing that turn the lights on now. I was happy to leave it at that because after all if he kept coming out because of poor diagnosis skills, that's no skin off our nose! But now he has sent us another invoice for a callout! Why are we paying for his incompetence? I was very polite with him because after all you just want the job done.

 

But now I'm going to be not so polite! Helix Electrical of Carindale, all lot of business works by word of mouth. Or reviews nowadays.

 

I think the problem is the body Corp telling the electrician to simply replace the switches myself. What would have been a better approach is having the body Corp tell the electrician what the issue was, and let him decide how to fix it. As for him turning the power off at the switch board, he likely didn't. The reason being, it would have taken out a whole circuit and possibly impacted other people. This is quite a common thing for sparkies to do, I use to do it all the time, even as an apprentice.

 

Regards,

 

Johns-Arcade.

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But did you assume when the customer called back to say the problem was still there, that they must just be numpties and come back three or four times, stare at the switches, mysteriously make them work for one or two times and then go? I think it's the height of arrogance.
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An intermittently stuck timer in parallel with 2 timer switches sounds like a pain in the arse to troubleshoot. Interpreting the actual issue from what's reported can be difficult at times. Without knowing exactly what was said by all parties it's hard to know why it took so long to sort. Some trades people are better at trouble shooting than others and some customers are better than others at explaining faults.
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90% of the solution is defining the problem.

 

I wonder if the electrician is just as frustrated. "They keep calling saying the switches are broken, but they freaking work fine whenever I'm there"

 

Depending on the age of the sparky, some wouldn't know what stairwell switching is all about let alone a pneumatic timer wired up in more than 3 flights of stairs. They are basically wired up in parallel not the same as two and three way switching.

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What if the sparky was there during the daytime and the timer was set to turn on at night, and wired differently than the newer switches? :unsure

 

And what happens if the preset time runs out while two people are caught up chatting for a few minutes half way up the staircase? ... or someone is a bit slow with whatever they are carrying or drop something and are delayed? ... left in the dark?

 

Yeah sensor lighting these days hey?

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What if the sparky was there during the daytime and the timer was set to turn on at night, and wired differently than the newer switches? :unsure

 

And what happens if the preset time runs out while two people are caught up chatting for a few minutes half way up the staircase? ... or someone is a bit slow with whatever they are carrying or drop something and are delayed? ... left in the dark?

 

Yeah sensor lighting these days hey?

 

Thats why i have a torch on my keys its the best money ive ever spent

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This is the exact picture so you can put yourself in his shoes. We call him to say the lights are still on. He arrives to see that indeed the lights ARE still on, but switches are clearly off. Would that not tell you that something else is up?

 

I have to admit some of the reason I was so exasperated is that I used to be an auto electrician. For us maybe 90% of our work was repairs and thus fault finding, and 10% new work. For a house sparkie I can imagine those figures are reversed. So perhaps a 3rd year auto sparkie has more experience than say a fully qualified house sparkie with ten years under his belt.

 

Nonetheless that scenario that I presented, surely that would raise an eyebrow? If it were me I’d want to find out. I would test the switches in situ and see the light is still on. Then I would double check the wiring connections to make sure I hadn’t screwed that up. Then I would take the switches out and test with a multimeter. Not being a 240V sparkle I don’t know what I would do next. But what I’ve just described- isn’t that a fairly reasonable and straightforward methodology?

 

Edit: the lights were on ALL the time. I am out and about all sorts of hours. Anytime I’ve seen the lights were on. In any case they were definitely on all DAY, I can’t imagine the sparky came to have a look at 3am :D

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Edited by danny_galaga
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One of these each end of your stairway?. They have a timer inside them as well as sensitivity for the sensor.

 

https://www.bunnings.com.au/hpm-light-patrol-movement-security-sensor_p4320477

 

I'd put an isolating switch in the circuit as well so you can manually turn off the sensors when like in daylight you clearly don't need any lighting.

 

End of the day KISS rules...."Keep It Simple Stupid"

 

Reliability goes hand in hand with simplicity with all things electrical.;)

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One of these each end of your stairway?. They have a timer inside them as well as sensitivity for the sensor.

 

https://www.bunnings.com.au/hpm-light-patrol-movement-security-sensor_p4320477

 

I'd put an isolating switch in the circuit as well so you can manually turn off the sensors when like in daylight you clearly don't need any lighting.

 

End of the day KISS rules...."Keep It Simple Stupid"

 

Reliability goes hand in hand with simplicity with all things electrical.;)

 

Not spending one red cent more on this. He finally 'discovered' the timer once I was there to see what was happening and disabled it. Now it is working. Job done. Hope to never see his weasely face again :D

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