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Chattering Bally SS Flipper Help/Advice please


Rich

Question

Haven't come across this problem before.

Noticed it during game play, it just isn't right.

I have read a few threads about this issue and they leaned towards a tired hold winding.

I can flick my middle finger off my thumb against the flipper rubber and the flipper bounces/chatters, no firm hold.

They are Bally SS linear flippers, they are staying so please don't suggest changing them as that isn't the problem.

1. New coils - tried swapping out for another, used coil, same problem. 25/500 - 34/4500 even swapped where the wave washer sits thinking it may help, it didn't.

2. New sleeves

3. New cabinet tungsten tip flipper switch contacts

4. New EOS switches but no tungsten tip contact, silver plated copper mushroom contact, bought from.....leaving this out so as not to put any shame on the company. Contacted them about this because any EOS contacts should in my understanding be tungsten.

5. 43.6 VDC at flippers and 43VDC at flipper coil

6. Mechanically perfect, zero resistance, nice and smooth.

7. Tried various EOS gaps and it doesn't make a difference, well it will if they are too close and don't open.

8. Tried changing at what position the the EOS contacts open, the later the better but still bounces.

9. Caps on either/both flipper and EOS switches makes no difference, except for arcing, so no voltage drop significant enough to affect the hold winding.

 

Using a multi meter measuring the voltage at the coil upon pressing the flipper switch I noticed it pause ever so briefly at about 20VDC then go to 43VDC.

 

My understanding is the larger the contact area with minimal resistance the better for current to flow. Might it possible that the EOS switch contacts being a mushroom head, not flat, therefore less surface area making contact hence more resistance and not tungsten tipped be the cause of this bounce?

I could answer this myself if I had some tungsten tipped EOS contacts handy, but I don't.

I have shitty pitted EOS switches on some of my pins and the flippers work fine.

 

So wadda ya reckon?

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Hold the EOS in hard while operating the flipper.

If it still happens, try another coil as have seen this happen before.

 

If still no good, remove the sol board and check pins on the back for cracked solder joints. Resolder and check the connectors too

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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Run a jumper wire with alligator clips between tabs of eos and see of symptoms persist. This should tell you if is eos or not.

 

Sent from my ALP-L29 using Tapatalk

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You could put some alligator clips on either side of the EOS, if there is a resistance or conductivity issue, with the switch closed you will read a voltage on your meter. if a switch is OK there should be not voltage measured on a closed contact. Also another issue could be a transistor not being driven hard enough or not conducting enough current through it. Therefore the coil amps are not enough to keep it happy. You can always give me a call fella ! Oh @Rich are you enjoying Mr Neeson?
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Thanks for the tips fellas, will give them a go and let you know of the results.

Had an Alltek piece of crap solenoid driver board in until a coil locked on, (about Alltek is a long story for another time, or not) but the problem existed with that in too.

Put a spare primo original driver board in and still the problem exists.

Q15 is the transistor that is turned on by the mpu that enables the flipper relay, this works fine but will swap board out for another from a working fine pin, just in case.

Last night was going to be an Angels marathon @thegrunta666 but ended up starting to watch 13 reasons why.......the CD's are sitting next to the CD player, just waiting.

Mr Walker and Mr Morgan helped me go to sleep, ahhhhhhh.

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Update.

1. Another primo solenoid driver board installed, no change.

2. Another rectifier board, no change.

3. No voltage across EOS switch, zero resistance when closed.

4. Tried alligator leads and increased pressure on EOS switch, no change.

5. Took solenoid expander board out of circuit, no change.

6. Thinking error on my part....game plays fine otherwise, no probs power wise to flip ball.

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swap out the coil stop

Spewin' I didn't do/read this advice before I took out the playfield. The coil stop has been out a few times to swap around coils and did read somewhere about the plunger ideally should hit the coil stop square on, or round on ;) .......it doesn't. I did notice a certain pop bumper would energise randomly when either flipper was energised, I removed all pop bumpers out of the circuit, no change. Playfield now back out for detailed inspection and I will power up a flipper with variac and see what happens. Also trying another coil stop. A process of elimination.

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yep no guarantee it will help but theres only so many parts in the system.swap one bit at a time with the other side.

There are 4 flippers all acting the same so I will start with one by taking the other 3 out of the circuit. Now thinking about it I will remove one flipper assembly and test on the bench.

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There are 4 flippers all acting the same so I will start with one by taking the other 3 out of the circuit. Now thinking about it I will remove one flipper assembly and test on the bench.

 

ok if its all 4 thats not a coil stop. its medusa right? make sure the primary eos is opening before the secondary activation switch closes. ( block the secondaries off with a bit of (something) and you will find the lower flippers now work a treat.

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ok if its all 4 thats not a coil stop. its medusa right? make sure the primary eos is opening before the secondary activation switch closes. ( block the secondaries off with a bit of (something) and you will find the lower flippers now work a treat.

Yes, Medusa, totally get where you are coming from, I tried that, thought take out the top two and concentrate on the bottom ones, no change. That's why I made the decision to take out the playfield which is no easy feat and go over everything very carefully, they tried to make use of every square inch available underneath, maybe something is amiss?

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I know @wiredoug you said it's not the coil stop if all flippers are doing the same thing....but you did initially suggest the coil stop being the issue, which I was leaning towards.

I just found this online:

If you are experiencing weak (power) & "spongy" (weak hold) flippers on

Bally Fathom, Medusa, Centaur, Embryon & FB II check the flipper coil

stops. For unknown reasons Bally used a coil stop that did not have a

brass insulated tip on most of these pins. When the coil was energized

it tried to magnetize the entire flipper mounting assembly resulting in

a weak power & hold condition. When the flipper was in the up (hold)

position & a ball would hit it the flipper would "give" until the EOS

would close & kick in the pull-in winding. Change the coil stop to a

brass insulated tip style and you're back to strong power & holding

flippers.

 

- - - Updated - - -

 

Okay, last post until sorted out.......as the coils have been eliminated from the cause, all associated switches are new, all mechanics are working sweet, correct voltages where needed, in switch test-zero, no fuses blowing, the only related component to all four flippers that hasn't been replaced, is, the coil stop. Reckon you are on the money @wiredoug.

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chattering flippers SOLVED

tried using a variac with 43VDC on one flipper, no change.

put in this coil stop

1817157537_IMG_2583(Medium).thumb.JPG.d845e065445089ed73a839151e5ca998.JPG

tried with 40VDC and rock hard hold, so your initial suggestion @wiredoug and finding that post online puts and end to this.

hope it helps others that may have or come across same issue.

replacement next to original.

112849571_IMG_2582(Medium).thumb.JPG.d757425a82acf0e21a4ad5f50d248b41.JPG

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yes i made a mistake here .. i assumed they were "the right ones' .. my bad.

 

well done fixing it

Oh, hope you didn't take that the wrong way, I meant it in a positive way, that you made me think that the problem is with all 4 flippers, so, got me thinking some more which isn't unusual, so what hasn't been changed that could cause this bouncing. Basically everything possible except for the base plates and brackets at the front of the coil had been replaced, except for those coil stops. I'm fu*king stoked now, happy dance. :026:

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Awesome

Correct coil stops are always handy.

 

Funnily enough when I had the chatter problem, it was also Medusa.

 

But it was a new coil to fix.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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