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New IFPA Aus/NZ Flip Frenzy guidelines


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Because you're slandering people who play honestly with the tar of cheaters. That frankly reads as lazy people who don't like that Queensland took over as wanting their cake back.

 

That's pretty much the same with everything in the human race...

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Because if there is no punishment for a lost game then people can agree to play 1 ball games and get way more games in than they should. Increasing their chance of winning or at least playing higher up.

 

People can no longer get away with colluding to play 1 ball games, among the first of the new guidelines (enforced particularly for the original format to deal with 1 ball games) require Three non playing officials to oversee matches and monitor proceedings to identify players colluding and disqualify/punish them. This was one of the initial new requirements to prevent collusion. We can run Original Format FF playing 3 ball games so long as sufficient "police" are provided to ensure no players can get away with collusion. No penalties for losses, winner is total number of wins. As far as I understand it this where we stand at the moment.

 

1/3 of TGP is a pretty severe nerfing though (especially given we now require an extra 3 non playing volunteers to ensure 3 ball games, at SA masters thankfully we had 5 of us volunteer to not play so that we could run it within guidelines... 3 of whom were simply monitoring gameplay behaviour), I would have thought 50%TGP tops would have been plenty of "nerfing" as a maximum??.... ours was only 2 hours meaning pretty low TGP anyway. But never the less, glad we seem to still have the option to run a True flip Frenzy :D

 

The -1 for a loss seemed to seriously kill the Frenzy buzz! ... compared to others I have run and played in previously. ... Some just want to play and have fun, without the pressure of Needing to play better! (talking about all the New folk to the scene here rather than "highly skilled" competitive players).

 

- - - Updated - - -

 

So this is essentially allowing the 'old style' frenzy to live on? That'd be good, thank you.

 

Can you elaborate as to why you're thinking 1/3 of TGP, or not 50% or another value?

 

I would ask the same @LCM.... Why not 2/3 TGP? or 60%TGP or something more than 1/3?.... there is no longer the possibility of 1 ball games with the new "Police" requirement....

Edited by razorsedge
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>The -1 for a loss seemed to seriously kill the Frenzy buzz! ... compared to others I have run and played in previously.

 

 

Can’t disagree more! Had an awesome frenzy last night at the SHPC. Almost 60 players.

 

Having losses recorded really makes you concentrate on playing better.

 

For most kiwis, it was their first frenzy, that’s why I wanted to start them off with the rules as they’ll be moving forward.

 

Feedback was overwhelmingly positive. The Aussies that were here said they liked it this way too. This format is a great way to start a weekend of pinball.

 

3 hours - almost everyone played 23/24 games. For some reason I played only 21 - I had a couple of longer games and I guess that hurt my result.

 

You can see who the smokers are cause they played less games. Popping away from the wait queue for a bunger. :)

 

We used Luke’s XL spreadsheet and when we figured out how to use it, it worked sweetly.

 

Good times!

 

rd

 

 

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Having losses recorded really makes you concentrate on playing better.

 

 

I agree, that is fair enough for such a high level event of such prestige as the SHPC! :)

 

However for smaller rural events (in areas where pinball competitions are in such infancy) and with such a high proportion of New players, these new players seem to really appreciate that their 90% losses do not count to their result. It really seems to give them alot of encouragement!. We're comparing oranges with tennis balls here :lol

 

One size does not fit all, apparently ;)

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As far as I know... All the top notch stuff was invented by Nikola Tesla.

 

... The Japanese are very very good at adding their diligent craftsmanship in to the mix (my main guitar is Japanese, my back-up is Japanese, and my 3rd is a high end Rickenbacker).

 

... 'Flip Frenzy' was invented by Kenji Ishii, and the first format was played in Japan on OCT 10th, 2010.

 

Australian pinball players are privileged in that we have Luke, a Pinball Tournament format fetishist, who scours Pinball Tournament formats from around the Globe (like an honourable pinball fetishist boss), and brings them to US.

 

Sure... Luke tweaked the original concept, however he did so studiously, and I reckon he's pretty chuffed that US Aussies (and now the bloody Kiwis) have gravitated to the format.

 

I'm pretty sure that Luke has moved on though, and will continue to introduce new Tournament formats in to the Aussie pinny landscape.

 

That said... Luke (and Dan) also have a responsibility to the integrity of IFPA WPPR's, and need to follow the comments in this thread to garner insight in to how the IFPA integrity works for Australians.

 

Sorry guys... If there's something about an IFPA Tournament format that irks you, you don't have to rub yourself against sandpaper (glass-paper, garnet paper... Whatever... You understand me). Become a Tournament Director, and watch how receptive Luke and Dan will be to your ideas.

 

I understand that I'm a dickhead... And a very very small part of me would like you to understand that I'm a dickhead.

 

I don't understand why sane people challenge the evolution of a pinball format in a similar fashion to the way Christain fundamentalists challenge whatever the fuck it is that they're really challenged by.

 

Cheers,

 

G

Edited by GEE
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Thanks Greg @G. for your response and appreciate that you understand the real issues here.

 

I feel this is the issue with the changing. We have it good. We run smooth events, and we have heaps of numbers turn up.

 

The snark from some people and disdain shown by people in other states is starting to leak. It's almost like the other states are trying to curb back the Queensland numbers, in some old guard hating the new guard and telling the peasants to get back in the box style. Which is a shame, because while there's a clear dictatorship going on, it feels pretty deflating.

 

Maybe next time, the powers that be should consult the one region where people actually turn up to Pinball comps regularly.

 

Because you're slandering people who play honestly with the tar of cheaters. That frankly reads as lazy people who don't like that Queensland took over as wanting their cake back.

 

Maybe next time the Tournament Director's changing their formats should consult the IFPA whether what they are introducing in their formats qualifies for endorsement or full value. An email or a phone call to us is all that is sometimes required so that everyone is on the same page and prevent ambiguity. Other TD's have done this in the past.

 

I'm not sure how long you @Saintsmaen have been competing in pinball, but it seems that your summation of what is going on and the revisions being made to a particular format is borne through jealousy is laughable. Are you for real?

 

Not every format qualifies or has to be IFPA endorsed. Rules and guidelines are always evolving to prevent players exploiting formats and essentially gain an unfair advantage. Honesty and transparency are two key factors which are detrimental to this sport.

 

So this is essentially allowing the 'old style' frenzy to live on? That'd be good, thank you.

 

Can you elaborate as to why you're thinking 1/3 of TGP, or not 50% or another value?

 

Because all games are graded as 1 ball games

 

1/3 = 33.333%

 

For those flip frenzies that were graded at 1/3 recently, they also ran the chance of being completely removed from IFPA inclusion. We are not trying to dictate what goes on but help manage what is happening here and continually evolving in Australia. The majority of events and Tournament Director's do a fantastic job running events.

 

Similar to Pin-Golf events when they were first introduced, Flip Frenzy tournaments have been monitored to ensure they are being run fair and equitable for all players involved.

 

We had been hearing of some questionable conduct and practise occurring and hence why some tweaks were being made to the flip Frenzy format. This is not all new stuff. Debate about counting "wins only" has been going on since inception. Luke was only convinced recently that wins minus losses would curb certain behaviour and practise.

 

The original Flip Frenzy format was introduced here in Australia by Luke Marburg from a version which used to be played in Japan. It was always a great format to introduce new players to competitive pinball because of the very social aspect of it. This was due to how often you changed players throughout the Tournament. However, over time some of the more experienced players have devised strategies to achieve high rates of wins by also having quick losses which would not count against them. This isn't fair against players who have a high rate of similar wins but fewer losses.

 

Without going into a debate about this, some players stopped competing in this format because of the inconsistencies and what they were witnessing.

 

We rarely intervene in what tournament directors do and Luke has given the TD"s running flip frenzy's certain latitude in how they continue to run their flip Frenzy events.

Edited by Fair Dinkum Dan
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I don't understand why sane people challenge the evolution of a pinball format in a similar fashion to the way Christain fundamentalists challenge whatever the fuck it is that they're really challenged by.

 

Oh mate I cracked a laugh so hard I'm in tears right now :)

 

Where's my chainmail? Let me get my horse and I'm right with you! For the king!!!

 

Ok now that Christianity has been brought into this thread, it's all over. I appreciate all the parties that have entered/left in this discussion.

 

To sum up my points were a knee jerk reaction where very few seem to understand what we are losing.

 

- the format was unique, as strategic conceding was unique (the main enemy being time)

- it was a great format for people to play fast, it was about making points quick and get X wins/hour,

- new players loved it, because it was giving them a chance to rank well

- a 2/3 nerf is basically killing the format for most TD to consider including. I agree there is more entropy in this format but I doubt it was 66% more random over 3 hours.

- 1-ball games have nothing to do with this, I am totally in agreement that it should be banned and reprimanded (to the individual, not the whole tournament). Following the same argument, you could nerf the best game format by 50% because you can't guarantee someone didn't restart his qualifying game. Following your argument that the frenzy invited 1-ball games collusion, the best game format invites sneaky restart of a crap ball. At the end of the day, you either trust the TD's report or you don't.

 

I tried to explain that as best as I could... Knowingly very well that this new format is fairer, I find it far less interesting.

 

I understand that I'm a dickhead... And a very very small part of me would like you to understand that I'm a dickhead.

 

Nah mate you're a great player, always welcoming new players and always there to help set up and tear down. You're a legend in my books.

Edited by Nicolas Noben
typo
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... Ok now that Christianity has been brought into this thread, it's all over. I appreciate all the parties that have entered/left in this discussion...

 

Haha... I could introduce fierce political debate as well, however I'm simply not smart enough!

 

Cheers,

 

G

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