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New IFPA Aus/NZ Flip Frenzy guidelines


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You still didn’t answer my question. How many new players play in Netherworlds Flip Frenzy?

I love Jimmy and Netherworld and support them as much as the next person I just get sick and tired of hearing people bang on how Flip Frenzies are for the new players. Where is the proof?

 

I'm sorry Rusty my intent was never to make you "sick and tired". In fact, I didn't know I'd end up arguing YOU and HAVING TO ANSWER to you, with PROOF.

 

Seeing you can so prominently respond and slam people on the Internet, I figured you knew how it worked, and could do your own research.

 

I invite you to look at the following pages and take a look at the gray-ish rows in the list. That shows "not fully ranked" players, and I would classify them as "new players". Especially the ones marked as "not rated", it means they're brand spankingly new and shiny.

 

https://www.ifpapinball.com/tournaments/view.php?t=16686 23/46 not fully ranked player...

 

https://www.ifpapinball.com/tournaments/view.php?t=16685 23/44...

 

And the list goes on and on.

 

https://www.ifpapinball.com/tournaments/view.php?t=16687

 

https://www.ifpapinball.com/tournaments/view.php?t=16690

 

Of course, it matures over time and the slots get taken by the Flip Frenzies regulars. But I hope you can see a clear pattern of people who fell in love with this format and they're returning to this format, sometimes with new people carrying the same family name.

 

Take a look at this player, I don't want to prey on anyone in particular but this one is a clear "PROOF" for you:

 

https://www.ifpapinball.com/player.php?p=50872

 

I guess it's the Internet of today now, people can't do their own research and they have to be given PROOF of every argument that clashes with their own, whilst lashing out at people with strong words (pun intended).

 

Since you talk about "selling out quickly", I'm going to presume that you're referring mostly to the Netherworld Flip Frenzy.

 

Looking at our profiles, I've attended 14 of them, you've attended 3. And you've attended a total of 7 flip frenzy, I have attended a total of 24.

 

So maybe your experience with the frenzy format is lacking and you're being biased?

 

What is this BS I keep reading about new players.

 

I don't know... But if you keep reading it... There might be some truth to it.

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I'm sorry Rusty my intent was never to make you "sick and tired". In fact, I didn't know I'd end up arguing YOU and HAVING TO ANSWER to you, with PROOF.

 

Seeing you can so prominently respond and slam people on the Internet, I figured you knew how it worked, and could do your own research.

 

I invite you to look at the following pages and take a look at the gray-ish rows in the list. That shows "not fully ranked" players, and I would classify them as "new players". Especially the ones marked as "not rated", it means they're brand spankingly new and shiny.

 

https://www.ifpapinball.com/tournaments/view.php?t=16686 23/46 not fully ranked player...

 

https://www.ifpapinball.com/tournaments/view.php?t=16685 23/44...

 

And the list goes on and on.

 

https://www.ifpapinball.com/tournaments/view.php?t=16687

 

https://www.ifpapinball.com/tournaments/view.php?t=16690

 

Of course, it matures over time and the slots get taken by the Flip Frenzies regulars. But I hope you can see a clear pattern of people who fell in love with this format and they're returning to this format, sometimes with new people carrying the same family name.

 

Take a look at this player, I don't want to prey on anyone in particular but this one is a clear "PROOF" for you:

 

https://www.ifpapinball.com/player.php?p=50872

 

I guess it's the Internet of today now, people can't do their own research and they have to be given PROOF of every argument that clashes with their own, whilst lashing out at people with strong words (pun intended).

 

Since you talk about "selling out quickly", I'm going to presume that you're referring mostly to the Netherworld Flip Frenzy.

 

Looking at our profiles, I've attended 14 of them, you've attended 3. And you've attended a total of 7 flip frenzy, I have attended a total of 24.

 

So maybe your experience with the frenzy format is lacking and you're being biased?

 

 

 

I don't know... But if you keep reading it... There might be some truth to it.

 

Happy to discuss in person why I prefer not to play this format and would also be interested to find out why you are so passionate about it.

Im over and out.

 

 

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Look , you guys can argue all day long.

 

What the fuk does any of this have to do with RotorDaves tournament. He layed out his guidelines as TD, and I will see if any of you go over to play.

 

If you want to fight about QLD shit, start another thread.

 

If it’s ok for Netherworld to make changes that they see fit, then play there

 

But don’t get narky about other TDs changes to what they see fit.

 

And when LCM says, as Australian TD, that the name is fine for any FF format to retain the name, suck it up.

 

 

 

 

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Well, that escalated quickly. Lolll

 

Lots of CAPS LOCK! Haha

 

Look, I can’t see what the fuss is.

 

The format is 90% unchanged.

 

The player you linked (Mick) will still finish 30-40th in the new format.

 

The player change (player stays on same machine twice) will make little difference.

 

IMO the old “losses don’t matter” format was silly.

 

At the end of the day, a competition should be about who’s played the best.

 

This new format will enable Frenzies to be played world wide, with full respect, and endorsement from the IFPA.

 

In regards to new players and frenzies, I can’t see how this will change anything?

 

It’ll still be fun - and from what I hear, more fun, because people won’t be whispering in their ears getting them to play one ball games and other similar shit thats been going on. You gotta realise, if things stayed the way they were, then FF probably wouldn’t be a viable IFPA format any more. Changes were necessary.

 

I think the FF format is a great one for everyone - including new players - If it is played fairly and legally, and rewards good pinball playing.

 

(Although I could argue that any monthly tournament will attract new players - we play monthly 3 strikes and have new players every month)

 

Anyway, pinball for the win!

 

Off to run the Southern Hemisphere Champs. Lovely day in Pukekohe today!

 

rd

Edited by rotordave
Updated wording and further clarification
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Look , you guys can argue all day long.

 

What the fuk does any of this have to do with RotorDaves tournament. He layed out his guidelines as TD, and I will see if any of you go over to play.

 

If you want to fight about QLD shit, start another thread.

 

If it’s ok for Netherworld to make changes that they see fit, then play there

 

But don’t get narky about other TDs changes to what they see fit.

 

And when LCM says, as Australian TD, that the name is fine for any FF format to retain the name, suck it up.

 

Thanks for your valuable input... The thread is named "New IFPA Aus/NZ Flip Frenzy guidelines"... That's why. QLD is the shining the light when it comes to flip frenzies, in case you didn't get the draft.

 

I'm sure Dave's tournament is going to be great. I've only heard great things from people who went there!

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As previously mentioned the help at all comps has been brilliant up here in Qld.

 

It doesn't seem to matter about the format and everyone tells noobs where to find the website for both match play live results as well as the IFPA site and AA

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IMO the old “most games played” format was stupid - where’s the reward for good play?

 

[snip pointless examples]

 

It's sad to read even the OP has no idea what he's talking about.

The 'old' format has always been about the number of WINS.

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It's sad to read even the OP has no idea what he's talking about.

The 'old' format has always been about the number of WINS.

 

Thanks for the compliment.

 

I didn’t phrase it well ... but I think most would have got the gist.

 

I’ve updated the wording - let me know if it passes your scrutiny or I need to make changes. :)

 

I posted this update also on IFPA AUS behalf - they’re the guys who have been working the most on it.

 

I just pushed it along as to have the new version complete by this weekends SHPC, so I can teach 60 people who have never played in a frenzy before how to play in one.

 

You’re welcome to come and help if you like ... I need all the help I can get. :)

 

rd

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What I find strange is the FF new player argument with proof is over a year old.

The last 6 months you will note there is stuff all noobs

The general same 75% of players and it does sell very quickly to the point where I believe you can only by 2 tickets

Stats don't lie even thou they can be viewed differently.

Rather than keep on going round in circles maybe look at all the players from 18 months ago verses their results leading into the change of rules after the masters, find the clear winners that have now averaged out their scores and thank them personally for creating this dilemma in the first place....

Without them this conversation / argument would never have needed to happen...

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Thanks for the compliment.

 

I didn’t phrase it well ... but I think most would have got the gist.

 

I’ve updated the wording - let me know if it passes your scrutiny or I need to make changes. :)

 

You're welcome, but the analogies are still irrelevant. I'm not correcting you just for the sake of being anal, I really feel there's a big misunderstanding.

 

We've never seen anybody win a frenzy with more losses than wins, and the timeframe is the same for everybody.

So, sure, you could win with more losses than the player finishing second, or even with a lower win/loss ratio, because you managed to squeeze in more games, but it didn't seem to be an issue till the one ball games became rampant.

 

That surely did maximise the number of occasions you could have a lot of quick almost random wins, to overcome your (also random) losses.

 

Once it's been addressed, I don't see any issue with rewarding the players that take more risks and try to get as many wins as possible (less ball control, drain on purpose hoping your opponent doesn't catch you, going for more risky shots or strategies). You will obviously risk getting more losses by doing so, but also play way more games (and wins).

 

Imho, this is still skillful play, and this is definitely in line with the format.

 

You don't play the same way in pingolf as in more classic format, why should the frenzy be weighed the same as "normal" formats with the same set of criterias when it comes to judge how skilled you were?

 

The win/loss ratio already killed the format a bit because nobody takes any risk anymore. It's just became normal head to head during X hours.

 

So, removing the double loss feature on top of that makes it even more similar to a classic head to head.

 

Like others already said, nerf the points of the original format if you feel it's too random/not rewarding skills enough (but that's debatable), and stop watering it down, for the sake of its own name.

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Again

These are guidelines.

You can still have the old format.

 

If you want to run the old format, then do it.

 

Doesn’t mean everyone else has to.

 

Some will go with new format. Others won’t.

 

 

 

 

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Again

These are guidelines.

You can still have the old format.

 

If you want to run the old format, then do it.

 

Doesn’t mean everyone else has to.

 

Some will go with new format. Others won’t.

 

The new format described here, yes.

But you can't revert to the "highest number of wins" format, you need to use the net wins (wins minus losses) point system to get it IFPA approved.

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The new format described here, yes.

But you can't revert to the "highest number of wins" format, you need to use the net wins (wins minus losses) point system to get it IFPA approved.

 

What if I was to say that you can use "highest number of wins" to determine the standings, and we'll grade the tournament at 1/3rd TGP?

 

Those advocating both for a return to the original format and a reduction in WPPR value can have their cake and eat it too.

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What if I was to say that you can use "highest number of wins" to determine the standings, and we'll grade the tournament at 1/3rd TGP?

 

I would question the 1/3 as this is what has been applied to 1 ball game frenzies using this system. Applying the same 1/3 while enforcing 3 ball games doesn't seem fair, but I appreciate the option and I'm pretty sure there's a way to find the right TGP for this.

 

I guess the future will tell how much of a difference it makes. I'm happy to compare the results using the old and new model, and see how it impacts points and players, during, let's say, the next 6 months.

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What if I was to say that you can use "highest number of wins" to determine the standings, and we'll grade the tournament at 1/3rd TGP?

 

Those advocating both for a return to the original format and a reduction in WPPR value can have their cake and eat it too.

 

Because you're slandering people who play honestly with the tar of cheaters. That frankly reads as lazy people who don't like that Queensland took over as wanting their cake back.

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What if I was to say that you can use "highest number of wins" to determine the standings, and we'll grade the tournament at 1/3rd TGP?

 

So this is essentially allowing the 'old style' frenzy to live on? That'd be good, thank you.

 

Can you elaborate as to why you're thinking 1/3 of TGP, or not 50% or another value?

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So this is essentially allowing the 'old style' frenzy to live on? That'd be good, thank you.

 

Can you elaborate as to why you're thinking 1/3 of TGP, or not 50% or another value?

Because all games are graded as 1 ball games

 

1/3 = 33.333%

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Why would they be graded as one ball game?
Because if there is no punishment for a lost game then people can agree to play 1 ball games and get way more games in than they should. Increasing their chance of winning or at least playing higher up.
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Can someone please send a link or a brief description on how "Stall Ball" is played?

 

Cheers,

 

stall ball

 

The rules of stallball are very simple.

 

You have to stall the ball in a scoop, lock or saucer.

 

Once you have stalled the ball you need to move out of position and the next person in line needs to catch the ball and then stall the ball for the subsequent person.

 

If you drain the ball or tilt you are out.

 

If there is a multiball you need to drain all but one ball before you stall. Stalling with more than one ball does not count. Drain down to one then play on.

 

You need to stall the ball and move out of the way and to the back of the line. Do not obstruct the next player. If you move the wrong way and get in the path of the next players you will be out. (this generally means moving to the right if the queue is on the left)

 

The last person standing wins.

 

Addendum* from 2 x stall balls at last weeks Melbourne Matchplay (yes there were 2. First was so much fun that everyone agreed to have another after the first):

 

- Sledging is allowed.. actually it's mandatory

- Whispering sweet nothings in players ear (without touching them) is allowed

- Daggy Dancing allowed

- Flashing body parts is allowed apparently

- No touching

- No tongue

 

* Not official rules, but makes for a fun tournament

 

Sledging

Sledging or "Mental Disintergration" as it is also known is the tactic of talking to players on the opposition side (particularily batsmen, as taking on a whole team in the field is never a good idea) with the objective of destroying either their concentration or their confidence/self esteem. Sledging is practised in a large way by the Australian Cricket Team, but most International teams partake in sledging. Sledging can be merely an opposition player talking constantly to the batsman, but has mostly become known as players swearing and questioning their lineage.

 

 

Glenn McGrath to Eddie Brandes

GM: "Oi Brandes why are you so fat?"

EB: "Because everytime I shag your wife she gives me a biscuit"

 

Andrew Flintoff to Tino Best (after Best had attempted a slog sweep towards the pavilion)

AF: "Mind those windows Tino"

 

Rod Marsh to Ian Botham

RM: "So how's your wife and my kids?"

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Because if there is no punishment for a lost game then people can agree to play 1 ball games and get way more games in than they should. Increasing their chance of winning or at least playing higher up.

 

There is a punishment for lost games, you get a loss instead of a win and possibly get back to the queue.

Also, like Nic said, a one ball game is collusion and is not allowed in any format, so the question of how that new "highest number of wins with no 1 ball games frenzy" 1/3 has been calculated remains.

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