• Enraged
  • Embarrased
  • Drunk
  • Down
  • Depressed
  • Crying
  • Crazy
  • Cool
  • Cocky
  • Bemused
  • Awesome
  • Annoyed
  • Angry
  • Amused
  • Friendly
  • Geeky
  • Godly
  • Happy
  • Hateful
  • Hungry
  • Innocent
  • Meh
  • Piratey
  • Poorly
  • Sad
  • Secret
  • Shy
  • Sneaky
  • Tired
  • Wtf
  • Page 4 of 13 FirstFirst ... 23456 ... LastLast
    Results 31 to 40 of 128

    Thread: Flip Frenzy Scoring/calculation idea

    1. #31
      Michi's Avatar
      Michi is offline
      is having a status just so he
      doesn't have no status.
       
      ----
       

      Join Date
      Mar 2016
      State
      Queensland
      Posts
      1,732
      Mentioned
      88 Post(s)
      Quoted
      619 Post(s)
      Australia

      Quote Originally Posted by nich2pat View Post
      You are saying that the luck of the draw can be more important than the skill of the player, but then go on to say that frenzies are a harvesting fest for better players. So which is it? Luck or skill? Couldn't you then say that all tournaments are just point harvesting fests for better players?
      I hear you. On average, over many frenzies, the better players will come out on top, just as they do for any other format. But, given the large luck factor and how (relatively) easy it is to win a flip frenzy as opposed to a matchplay tournament, I think the frenzies are worth too much.

      My preferred option for dealing with the frenzies is to make them worth far fewer WPPRs. Dividing by 3 seems reasonable to me. That would greatly reduce the incentive to cheat. In addition, add some form of penalty into the scoring for lost games, so there is an incentive to finish games instead of just conceding them.

      The frenzy format is really, really fun, and a great way to get new players involved in competitive pinball. By making them worth less, it's more likely that people will attend for fun, instead of attending for points.
      Michi.
      May the pinballs tumble in your direction!

    2. #32
      raysco's Avatar
      raysco is offline
      is Taking a break from all
      projects.....until the next
      one comes up.
       
      Friendly
       

      Join Date
      Sep 2009
      State
      westlake, Brisbane
      Posts
      2,422
      Mentioned
      161 Post(s)
      Quoted
      385 Post(s)
      Wales
      Mate with my win/loss ratio I would end up owing the IFPA points

    3. #33
      Dedrok's Avatar
      Dedrok is offline
      is again starting to get slightly
       
      Angry
       

      Join Date
      Mar 2011
      State
      Newcastle Australia
      Posts
      5,887
      Mentioned
      316 Post(s)
      Quoted
      1785 Post(s)
      Australia
      Quote Originally Posted by VON View Post
      devastated that I can't go to the Barn Meet to catch up with you Dave.
      See , thatís good, your luck is changing already


      Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
      The Artist Formally Known As #1

    4. #34
      furballx's Avatar
      furballx is offline
      is not the Messiah, he's a very
      naughty boy
       
      Piratey
       

      Join Date
      Nov 2007
      State
      Sydney, Australia
      Posts
      9,481
      Mentioned
      256 Post(s)
      Quoted
      1554 Post(s)
      Quote Originally Posted by Dedrok View Post
      See , that’s good, your luck is changing already


      Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
      ************************************************** *******************
      Remember--The early bird catches the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese!

    5. #35
      Fair Dinkum Dan's Avatar
      Fair Dinkum Dan is offline Pinball, the ball is wild
      is Daniel Robar
       
      ----
       

      Join Date
      Jan 2007
      State
      Sydney
      Posts
      3,374
      Mentioned
      79 Post(s)
      Quoted
      135 Post(s)
      To say Luke Marburg and I are disappointed in what has been occurring in some Flip Frenzy tournaments is an understatement. I've been hearing rumours of certain practises in some events for some time now but nothing official. Luke and I will act when something has been escalated to us due to no action by the Tournament Director or where the player has felt the Tournament Director has not acted appropriately.

      For players to decide what is acceptable practise and what is not, is unbelievable. If it isn't stated in the rules, so everyone has the same chance, then basically it is cheating. To collude with an opponent on an outcome of a game is cheating. To not report it, is complicit and, in my view, just as bad because you could have put a stop to the behaviour but chose not to do so.

      When tournaments are run, most players would believe that their fellow competitors would play within the rules. There is that perception that most players are honest when competing and the Tournament Directors will act if and when required.

      Most of the high ranked players will always ensure they know the rules of the format so they can play within those boundaries. If they want to interpret a rule a certain way, then it would be a good idea to make sure that the rule does mean that and all other competitors have the same advantage or disadvantage, depending on what it is.

      It is up to the Tournament Director to enforce those rules and supervise the event properly at all times. If they are busy competing, then they should ensure there are other officials to assist, otherwise don't include yourself as the TD.

      If you have an unfair advantage against your opponent or the rest of the participants, then it can be seen as cheating because your opponents don't have the same chance. Once labelled a cheat, it is very hard to lose that label. For the sake of what might look like a great idea at the time on how to beat other players, it can now ruin a persons reputation forever or a very long time. It also brings the format and pinball into disrepute.

      Since resurrecting competitive pinball in Australia, a number of years ago now, I've watched it grow immensely into what it is today thanks to the hard work of many players here. When Luke Marburg introduced the Flip Frenzy format here in Australia, we and Norbert Snicer saw what an awesome format it was to introduce new players to competitive pinball because it allowed those new players the ability to compete and stay in the event throughout the duration of the tournament regardless of how many wins or losses they had. They could not get knocked out during the tournament. It is a fun and interactive format if players choose to play that way.

      It is a format that does have a place in the IFPA, though the rules need a little refining and we would love to see it stay but the behaviour of some players has to be stamped out.

      One of my first major events I ran was the Australian Pinball Expo Championship at the Australian Pinball Expo. It was the first time I saw what cheating can do to a tournament if not seen or dealt with immediately and appropriately. I was watching a young guy and his girlfriend competing in the tournament and they were doing well. They were having a great time. I later noticed that things had changed and went up to them and asked what was wrong? They didn't want to say anything, because they didn't want to "dob" anyone in, but I managed to convince them to tell me. My main concern was that they have a great experience at the expo and the tournament. They eventually told me they had noticed cheating occurring by other players in the tournament. I was shocked to hear this and assured them that it would be dealt with. The players were caught cheating and immediately ejected from the tournament. I was disappointed that players would try such things. However, it was a wake up call that it can occur and to always act fast appropriately. The two players noticed that the organisers of the event were serious and now confident once again that the event was being run honestly and continued to compete in the event for many more hours as it was a pump and dump event.

      One last point, not all Flip Frenzy tournaments I have attended or heard about, has colluding or cheating been occurring, however, it seems it has started to become somewhat accepted in some "circles" as a strategy. Luke is sending out new guidelines to all TD's reminding them of their duty and the rules which they will explain to all participants before the commencement of each event on how the Flip Frenzy format should be played.

    6. #36
      Jack the Flipper's Avatar
      Jack the Flipper is offline
      This user has no status.
       
      ----
       

      Join Date
      Apr 2016
      State
      SA
      Posts
      71
      Mentioned
      16 Post(s)
      Quoted
      22 Post(s)
      Australia

      Flip Frenzy Scoring/calculation idea

      Thereís nothing more sociable and enjoyable than Group Matchplay. All of my favourite tournament experiences have come from this format (local and interstate). You actually get to know people because you have an opportunity to chat in between balls/ rounds as the pace isnít frenetic. Thereís a reason why everyone talks about Pinburgh being so enjoyable (not that Iíve been!).

      Flip frenzies started off fun and a bit like a party but theyíve been polluted by all the crap that necessitates the existence of a thread like this (you donít see anyone debating the merits, scoring formulae and varieties of cheating with other formats).

      These days, Flip Frenzies literally give me a headache after 2 hours , I feel constantly rushed and unable to engage with anyone amid the repetitive, and at times mildly aggressive ,mantra of ďcímon mate, a quick gameís a good gameĒ. Itís just not pinball. And the 1ball BS just takes it to another (far lower) level.

      Make flip frenzies worth less points (1/3 at least) and they will become fun again.
      Itís the only way. People are just too points- focused - especially when you can earn as many in 3 hours of T-20 style pin as you can in the Test match equivalent of group matchplay and finals!

      Competitive pinball is amazing and addictive. Dan , Luke and all the TDs are clearly passionate and do a great job. It just needs a little weeding - and letís start with the Frenzies

      George (Adelaide)

    7. #37
      razorsedge's Avatar
      razorsedge is offline
      is on the path to adventure...
       
      Amused
       

      Join Date
      Jul 2017
      State
      South Australia
      Posts
      803
      Mentioned
      12 Post(s)
      Quoted
      201 Post(s)
      Australia
      At the Feddy Flip Frenzy after about 2 hours people started dropping out like flies... we had removed 2 arenas by the end. That FF was 3 hours which was half hour less than all the others I had been in. Bowland FF is planned for 2 hours at this stage as a short close to the weekend, partly because of this, but also to allow enough time for the main event finals to conclude. This also gives players from afar that bit more time to make their way home since it will finish an hour earlier than it would with a 3hour event..

      The way I understand it this shorter running time will also reduce the TGP for the FF quite a bit. The other events should all be fairly high TGP.

    8. #38
      pinballcreature is offline
      is tired
       
      Amused
       

      Join Date
      Jun 2015
      State
      South Australia
      Posts
      443
      Mentioned
      48 Post(s)
      Quoted
      69 Post(s)
      Australia
      Those who know me, know I don't get into forums or social media at all

      Someone pointed out this thread to me earlier today and I thought I would give my two cents worth.

      I began running tournaments in Adelaide in Feb 2016. This Tuesday will be my 65th tournament as a TD.

      What I am most pleased with, is that since Feb 2016, more than 200 different players have entered a tournament in South Australia. Even though there have been less tournaments in SA this year, more players have played a tournament than the previous two years.

      I love the fact that pinball brings together people from all walks of life in a non-judgemental setting. There are negatives of course but the positives far outweigh them.

      I was extremely disappointed to hear of the recent reports of collusion between players at tournaments - namely agreeing on one ball games in Flip Frenzies. It's cheating.

      Personally the idea of cheating is anathema for me. I could not gain any satisfaction from winning this way.

      I have run many different formats in tournaments. I am 99.9% sure that there has been no conclusion in any of 'my' tournaments. The sole instance of cheating I have dealt with in 64 tournaments, is a player using the restart button when this game feature had accidentally been left on. I quietly but firmly told that player to go home. Players play tactics - trying to psyche others out etcetc and we are cracking down when this gets unfair. I run a pretty tight tournament, but as a result of these reports of collusion, I am introducing even tougher monitoring during tournaments. BUT aiming to keep the fun aspect.

      In our Flip Frenzies we use a score card for every match. We did have a problem in that players were grabbing a bunch of cards, sticking them in their back pocket and using them during the tournament. I stopped this a while back, so players were not tempted to fill in extra cards.

      I know this is a strong statement, but in my opinion any tournament in which there was known collusion should not be awarded IFPA points. To allow it - as in one ball games in Flip Frenzies - unfairly disavantages legitimate tournaments in that their tournaments would have higher TGP. For players playing in legitimate tournaments who are chasing points - and there are plenty of those here in SA, it's not fair.

      Generally, 'my' Flip Frenzies get about 80% TGP. I think the TGP calculation for Flip Frenzies is spot on - basically 4% per match played by the winner. I think it should stay this way.

      There is debate as to the enjoyment of social meets versus IFPA tournaments. I know people who can't see the point of playing pinball without competing and others who can't stand competitive pinball. It's a moot point. Personally, I don't mind, BUT, I cannot see the point of a person going to a social meet and getting so drunk that they can hardly stand or put a coherant sentence together

      When I started running tournaments I had NO IDEA what formats to run - I had no idea about anything! Due to lack of experience and knowledge I ran strikes tournaments. Bad idea. New players often played two or three matches and their night was over. Some never came back. I try to run formats that keep ALL the players involved for the maximum time and the best formats/highest tgp for that is Group Matchplay and Flip Frenzy. They are good value time-wise also.

      I am disappointed that George @Jack the Flipper has felt pressured in Flip Frenzies to play fast. Last year in a Flip Frenzy, I had a player say "come on, let's get going, a fast game is........". SO, I took my full two minutes, wiped down the machine with my hoodie sleeve aka Zach Sharpe, had a sip of water aka Josh Sharpe and proceeded to play laboriously slowly, trapping up at every opportunity. I made my point. You can have a good run in any tournament format. In a flip frenzy you might get a long player. It's just how things go. In a Group Matchplay you might get a round where you know all three machines backwards. There is no use whining about it, it all evens out in the end. Fast player, slow player, big deal!

      I will finish by saying keep enjoying pinball people, in whatever setting!! It's absolutely crazy the fascination we have with the silver ball, but isn't it great?
      Last edited by pinballcreature; 12th August 2018 at 04:03 PM.

    9. #39
      acejas's Avatar
      acejas is offline PENGO incognito
      is always on the case
       
      Tired
       

      Join Date
      Dec 2005
      State
      Gold Coast
      Posts
      3,225
      Mentioned
      162 Post(s)
      Quoted
      291 Post(s)
      Quote Originally Posted by pinballcreature View Post
      I had a player say "come on, let's get going, a fast game is........". SO, I took my full two minutes, wiped down the machine with my hoodie sleeve aka Zach Sharpe, had a sip of water aka Josh Sharpe and proceeded to play laboriously slowly, trapping up at every opportunity. I made my point.
      Love it LOL...I'm going to try that next time someone says that to me...not that I play alot of Frenzies.
      Pinball Meets...I love em

    10. #40
      ajfclark's Avatar
      ajfclark is offline
      is probably slacking off from
      studying
       
      Happy
       

      Join Date
      Mar 2017
      State
      Victoria
      Posts
      2,113
      Mentioned
      46 Post(s)
      Quoted
      738 Post(s)
      Australia
      It strikes me that unless you have banks that have been timed etc, you're always going to have longer playing and shorter playing games (and even with timed banks games will take variable amounts of time).

      It's just the nature of the beast.
      Live on Twitch, Tuesdays 6pm - 9pm + other random times | twitch.tv/ajfclark | You can vote for what machine I play, click here, follow my channel and type '!vote' in chat for details.

    Page 4 of 13 FirstFirst ... 23456 ... LastLast

    Thread Information

    Users Browsing this Thread

    There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

    Similar Threads

    1. Flip Frenzy #16 at Netherworld - 5th of May from 9am
      By Jimmy Nails in forum Pinball Competitions, Tournaments and Leagues.
      Replies: 9
      Last Post: 5th May 2018, 05:58 AM
    2. Flip Frenzy #4 at Netherworld
      By Jimmy Nails in forum Pinball Competitions, Tournaments and Leagues.
      Replies: 28
      Last Post: 7th May 2017, 08:24 AM
    3. Flip Frenzy #3 at Netherworld
      By Jimmy Nails in forum Pinball Competitions, Tournaments and Leagues.
      Replies: 4
      Last Post: 4th April 2017, 07:21 PM
    4. Pinball HQ Flip Frenzy
      By DOG in forum Pinball Competitions, Tournaments and Leagues.
      Replies: 34
      Last Post: 1st February 2017, 01:42 AM
    5. Flip Frenzy Sydney
      By nich2pat in forum Pinball Competitions, Tournaments and Leagues.
      Replies: 154
      Last Post: 1st November 2016, 07:16 PM

    Tags for this Thread

    Posting Permissions

    • You may not post new threads
    • You may not post replies
    • You may not post attachments
    • You may not edit your posts
    •