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Home automation retrofit


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There are lock device profiles in Vera, but are for specific digital locks rather than strikes. You would also need some form of sensor or switch to report back the state of the switch so action could be taken based on the code. Depending on the possible states of the switch you may be able to use the on/off input into the z-wave module as the trigger, but it would have to be tested for feasibility and then coded. May be a good candidate for an ESP8266 given the requirement for multiple inputs and outputs.

 

There’s a POPP product that is a door strike controller that’s EU only atm but I’ve emailed them and they’ve said they’re in development of AU versions of all their products which will solve this problem

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There’s a POPP product that is a door strike controller that’s EU only atm but I’ve emailed them and they’ve said they’re in development of AU versions of all their products which will solve this problem

If that’s the 012501, which is the only strike controller I can see they make, it only switches power to the strike:- no additional sensor or monitoring, so other than optional battery operation, gives no advantage over a basic z-wave or ESP8266 switch unit.

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If that’s the 012501, which is the only strike controller I can see they make, it only switches power to the strike:- no additional sensor or monitoring, so other than optional battery operation, gives no advantage over a basic z-wave or ESP8266 switch unit.

 

Yeah now that you mention it there is no additional monitoring. Can you change an Aeotec single or double switch to switch the door strike and be a door lock profile in zwave?

 

Was also thinking I’ve got a Nas that I could put openhab on and put a zwave zstick in. What are the advantages of going a Vera product over this solution?

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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Yeah now that you mention it there is no additional monitoring. Can you change an Aeotec single or double switch to switch the door strike and be a door lock profile in zwave?

 

Was also thinking I’ve got a Nas that I could put openhab on and put a zwave zstick in. What are the advantages of going a Vera product over this solution?

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

You could probably mess with config files so the switch appears as a lock, but there is no advantage to doing that.

You can name it as a lock, but at the end of the day it is a switch.

Either way, you will find you probably won’t be dealing with the switch directly - you’ll be using a scene or virtual switch that has the “switch on, wait X seconds, turn switch off” preconfigured.

 

If you are thinking of openhab or homeassistant, I would strongly suggest you have it running on a Pi rather than lumbering your NAS with it. Main advantage of Vera over openhab etc is that is a commercial product that requires minimal time to set up and does it’s job well. Openhab is an open source community project that will require more work to get and keep going. If you are up for the challenge, go for it. I will likely move to openhab in a few years when the time comes for the next change. It’s come a long way in the last couple of years.

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What NAS do you have? Synology, QNAP? they have dockers to setup easily. My NAS is only used as a file server predominately on an old HP NL150 - cpu usage is minimal and only use 3 dockers I was going the Pi way but had a docker setup - YMMV. I bought an old Zwave device from DJC a- works a treat as I only have one device and will only be using it for switches if I do.

Like djc said, Vera is a commercial product. I think you will be well catered for. With HA (or OpenHAB) you have a small investment of an Aotec USB for $85 - if you dont like it, flog it for half the price and not is much lost. Try HA on your NAS and see if it suits you - you will need at least one device to try simple stuff in HA and a zwave device (powerpoint?). If you dont like it buy the hub which djc can recommend you.

 

I highly recommend Home Assistant over OpenHAB even though I like OpenHAB better. Steeper learning curve on OH and v2 is almost there but not quite with regard to addons. HA is very simplistic and finds devices quickly and easily. What I didnt like (even though I dont mind python) is YAML - the programming language. All that aside, you dont need a lot of code to do things, especially if youre just starting on the door. Its when you start getting smarter, things become messy.

 

A few posts back Steve mentioned he didnt get the automation thing and rightly so. The watering example was a classic. Water the garden and then it rains or it rains and the watering starts. Now, you can link in with weather forecasts and combining with in ground sensors, you have a far better prediction and more accuracy in when to water. I'm only simulating atm but got sick of the keen gardening wife leaving the water on and drowning the plants - different plants like different amounts of water.

 

Enjoying the topic on door locks as I havent investigated. It comes down to your importance or where you can see the benefits mostly.

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Some times simplicity is the best approach I think. How about a timer relay with a reset terminal.

 

Use you Automation to trigger the timer relay and have the latch sensor wired to the deactivate the relay using the reset terminal?.

 

I made up a board to interface the front sliding gate controller with the "front door strike board" which is rather complex because it first powers the door to enable the door's "close to take pressure off the strike" function and then drives the strike for 2 seconds before it drops out.

 

You don't need any of those functions. You simply need a timer with a disable.

 

Sometime like this...Maybe not this exact one but there are many types and as you can see, cheap as chips.

 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Delay-Off-Turn-on-Timer-module-With-Reset-Button-Time-Relay-Up-to-1-hour-DC-12V/321925865785?epid=1570757520&hash=item4af446e139:g:si0AAOSwEgVWTt1R

 

When I made my boards over 12 years ago you couldn't simply buy things like this but I can't complain, mine are still going strong over 10 years later.

 

If you want to go real simple and remember simple gives you the ability in years to come to potentially repair things yourself, A relay set to "self latch" on the timing circuit.

 

The timer holds the relay on via the monitoring circuit and once the monitoring circuit opens, it stops the timer holding the relay on any longer if it still has any time left.

 

You would have the Automation system supplying the initial signal to start the timer.

 

Yes, it is using more electronics than just the Automation system but that system is probably using a couple of thousand transistors in all it's IC circuits so what is another handful?.

 

Plus, if your Automation system ever fails through lightning, a bad program, a power spike etc, you can hook a simple remote receiver to that "relay timer circuit" and your door strike is up and running.

 

Always allow for redundancies like in 8 -10 years and that current Automation system blows up and you can't get a direct replacement, you still want your door strike at least working don't you?.;)

 

It pays to think ahead with electronics and trying to think back how it all worked 10 years prior can be a real pain.

 

Remember, if this system fails and you haven't been near it for years which is normally the case, will you remember how it was all programmed?

 

Simplicity;)

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I wasn’t quite sure where you were throwing that timer relay but actually after thinking about it you’re putting it on the monitoring relay side of the circuit wired through the zwave controller? But yes KISS is the name of the game. The door strike will ever only be something to make entering easier whilst still retaining the original deadbolt setup just with an electronic strike so we can enter with our phones

 

- - - Updated - - -

 

What NAS do you have? Synology, QNAP? they have dockers to setup easily. My NAS is only used as a file server predominately on an old HP NL150 - cpu usage is minimal and only use 3 dockers I was going the Pi way but had a docker setup - YMMV. I bought an old Zwave device from DJC a- works a treat as I only have one device and will only be using it for switches if I do.

Like djc said, Vera is a commercial product. I think you will be well catered for. With HA (or OpenHAB) you have a small investment of an Aotec USB for $85 - if you dont like it, flog it for half the price and not is much lost. Try HA on your NAS and see if it suits you - you will need at least one device to try simple stuff in HA and a zwave device (powerpoint?). If you dont like it buy the hub which djc can recommend you.

 

I highly recommend Home Assistant over OpenHAB even though I like OpenHAB better. Steeper learning curve on OH and v2 is almost there but not quite with regard to addons. HA is very simplistic and finds devices quickly and easily. What I didnt like (even though I dont mind python) is YAML - the programming language. All that aside, you dont need a lot of code to do things, especially if youre just starting on the door. Its when you start getting smarter, things become messy.

 

Enjoying the topic on door locks as I havent investigated. It comes down to your importance or where you can see the benefits mostly.

 

I’ve got a QNAP TS-453a (I think) and all I do is some basic file serving, a little bit of video streaming and occasional downloading. So it’s really not stressed at all. Maybe during some streaming but that’s be it. So the dongle kind of does appeal to me for a trial run but I’ve got an opportunity to see the stuff in action so I’ll have to take that up and see what’s what.

 

As @Autosteve said KISS! Over and over again keep it simple and that’s what I want. Also ease of use is another thing that I kind of been prioritising too. I want a good product that is easy to install into my situation and I don’t have to fenangle and completely fork around with to get to work. I want it to be like an Apple product and just work... no mess no fuss

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  • 10 months later...
@Autosteve (or anyone else). Looking at getting a auto sliding gate and fence. What do yo have installed Visited a few forums yesty. Getting some quotes next week. We're getting tilt slab concrete fence and wanted timber slats (I know more - maintenance). Just trying to keep costs down. May end up using aluminium slats. Have to get power to gate too and run cat cable for camera/comms. Any help advice appreciated.
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@Autosteve (or anyone else). Looking at getting a auto sliding gate and fence. What do yo have installed Visited a few forums yesty. Getting some quotes next week. We're getting tilt slab concrete fence and wanted timber slats (I know more - maintenance). Just trying to keep costs down. May end up using aluminium slats. Have to get power to gate too and run cat cable for camera/comms. Any help advice appreciated.

 

Make sure you get the gate made to "suit" a power operated gate mechanism. For a slider than means a cross brace to mount the rack to. I would only recommend a sliding gate. They are far less likely to get hit and believe me, everyone hits them.

If you go a slider, make a tubular steel frame that bolts to the concrete path and goes up and over the gate on each end of the closed gate. This holds the guide wheels exactly where needed at the top of the gate....(remember strong winds), and on the closing end you can mount the "funnel" to guide the closing gate into the frame.

 

These steel tube frames take all the work of the gate away from your fence and will also take the impact "when" the gate gets hit.

 

It also makes for a professional install. Do not attach the gate to the fence.

 

My original install was using a NICE operator 24volt with a 100% duty cycle. Yes the kids could ride on that gate all day long but that operator was $1800 as well.

 

Rare to have 100% duty cycle on anything but it did. It was mains powered but ran battery backup. You do need battery backup if there is no other way onto your property like mine is.

 

My current sliding gate operator is a NeoSlider, the NICE operator got killed by lightning and compared to the NICE, this new one is rubbish.

 

I suppose you get what you pay for and this one was $850.

 

As for your wiring, you must have 240volts out to the gate operator location. Run it in one conduit on it's own. Most important.

 

Run another conduit for all your wiring back to the house to the gate operator. Only low voltage goes in this conduit and most importantly, your video audio cables. When pulling the cables put in extra, the more the better. You will be surprised what your system can develop into over time and the last thing you want is the need for more wires you don't have.

Use only security cable, doesn't matter, 4 circuit, 8 circuit and a couple of them so you have more than you will need. The stuff is cheap by the roll just DO NOT use CAT5 or 6 cable. It will most definitely let you down under ground in conduit.

 

Any questions feel free to ask.

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Thanks Steve

 

Going aluminium gate & tilt slab for fence . So much is changed in this market. Probably go low voltage - cheaper and easier. Mixed review on Neoslider. Trouble with modern controllers having rolling codes - no good for integrated HA - there are work arounds but dont want cloud based stuff. Thanks again - Ill be back with more questions!

Cheers

 

- - - Updated - - -

@STVe What Nice model did you have?

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Thanks Steve

 

Going aluminium gate & tilt slab for fence . So much is changed in this market. Probably go low voltage - cheaper and easier. Mixed review on Neoslider. Trouble with modern controllers having rolling codes - no good for integrated HA - there are work arounds but dont want cloud based stuff. Thanks again - Ill be back with more questions!

Cheers

 

Yep gate and fence sound ideal. Just make sure they put in that cross brace for the rack on the gate so you can tech screw the rack in place at the right height. Most gate places ask what operator you are using so as to get the brace height correct.

 

Low voltage still needs mains for charging unless you go solar but any more than 10 operations a day, I would steer clear of solar also things like intercoms and video often use voltages like 18, 24 or 36volt where as gates are usually 12 or 24.

 

Rolling code can input into the "open" as most operators are setup for after market receivers. ATA, the makers of the NeoSlider do make fine after market remotes and you can simply add more recievers to things like your garage doors or your front house door if you go extreme like I did so one four button remote controls most of the house automation. I would steer clear of inbuilt remotes as the are usually "updated" on the next operator design the company makes making the old parts obsolete. They are also much dearer and much harder to replace in years to come. Just remember, chances are you will get over 10 years out of this gate operator.

 

If you do go after market remotes, try to get an operator that has a "step by step" setting something the NeoSlider does not have.

 

Step by step is an input that connects direct to the remote receiver or any input you want, phone, intercom, camera, button etc that allows immediate control of the gate.

 

Example.....push button once and gate starts to open, push again gate stops dead, push again and gate reverses.

 

The NICE had one better though, you could take the stops dead feature out so just straight open or close. It doesn't sound like much but that feature allowed you to open the gate, go through while it was still opening and push remote again and the gate would just start closing instead of the normal fully open, stop and then close.

 

There are many operators and parts on the market and I have installed probably most brands and types the market had to offer. Some are good but some are great but some are just rubbish as well. Replacement parts soundn't be needed with a good operator but like I said earlier, expect the gate to get hit more than once in it's life.

 

Remote controls die and best to have generic than one offs. I use EBay remotes for my ATA receivers because they are just so much longer range and handle drops far better than the original ATA remotes. Originals are also above $60 where as EBAY ones are $12 and the EBay ones use common batteries.

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Thanks again Steve.

 

After research last night, Ill be going power to motor so I can add other utilities (ESP8266 or Arduino, lights etc)

 

I was looking at the NICE Robus 500 (AKA Robo 500) as a few people have added controllers directly to the Robo. Have you had any experience with these?

 

I had looked at the issue of generic remotes and if the Robo can interface with generic controllers then I should be OK (more research needed).

 

I'm a bit lost on the cross brace bit for the rack but will look into it more tonight.

 

Project involves getting Fence up then getting concreting (plinth, motor base and gate posts), then home automation.

 

Cheers

 

- - - Updated - - -

@djc Yeah...figured that one out last night with some good examples and reading

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This is the control board the Robo 500 uses.

https://www.riasztobolt.hu/pictures/down/en_tmanual_robo500.pdf

 

What is good about the NICE product is it is an auto learning gate operator. There are no limits as such. To set it up you start the gate and it moves very slowly till it hits a solid stop. It memorizes this position. It then reverses again till it hits a solid stop. It memorizes this position. These positions are counted via a internal pulse counter. ( I think it is something like 60 pulses per motor revolution). Internal is excellent as you have no external limits that can be hit or broken off. Just think what happens to a gate when a limit comes off.:o

 

Now the operator knows exactly what the pulse count is from one end of the other, gate fully open to gate fully closed. It then adds in slow down periods each end of travel. This enables the gate to start at high speed all the way to the end of the opening or closing phase and about a meter away from it's travel, slow down till it stops about 5mm away from the solid stop. It is pretty cool to watch and more importantly, stops the gate from banging but still allowing the gate to travel fast, you really don't want a slow gate like the NeoSlide is.

 

You would hook the after market remote receiver up to the "Step by Step" input and not use the factory onboard remotes.

 

If you want a switch inside the house you use 3 wires. One to common, one to step by step and one to open.

 

Common to step by step "momentary" switch allows you to fully control the gate exactly like your after market remote.

 

Common to open "locking" switch allows you to hold the gate fully open till the switch is turned off. Just remember if you leave this switch on, the remotes and other switches will have no effect till this switch is turned off. It overrides everything.

 

One thing I forgot to mention on the install of any brand. Make sure you put conduit under the gate. 25mm conduit is ideal as it allows for many cables. Your PE beam wiring will definitely go through this conduit but you will more than likely add to that.

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Have you done any solar and battery ones @Autosteve?

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Aussie Arcade

 

Well if you are using a 24volt system, you hook 2 batteries to it and a solar charger to the batteries from the 24volt or 2 12 volt panels. As long as there is 24volt, the system knows no different. That is exactly how it works running on battery backup without the solar panels and regulator. If it is a 240volt mains powered motor moving the gate, it's a lot harder.

All the board logics runs on 5 volt and 12volt DC but this is done on the board itself. You just supply 24volts to the board.

 

To do this I would strongly suggest a low volt unit.

 

Never installed a solar but worked on a few when things went wrong. Most of my installs were comercial and some domestic and mains was there at the gate location.

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Nope, but I know my cbus shit is not cost effective :lol

 

I fitted C-Bus when we built in 2005

It is expensive but looks nice, works, has warranty, and you can do plenty with it, and it is still available

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  • 2 weeks later...

Just thought I would let you guys that want to make your own controllers for your automation, I have many actuators, sliding gate drives, swing door mechanisms and even commercial sliding door assemblies.

 

Most assemblies have everything needed except working control boards although I do have a big collection of working control boards that can be adapted to get them working. Most motors in the assemblies are either 12 or 24vDC so if you are confident you can control these DC motors, these assemblies might just be what you are after.

 

I got all these parts for automation projects for the farm but as always, I couldn't say no to anything that turned up.

Edited by Autosteve
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