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Home automation retrofit


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Hey guys I was at a customers place of business and they’re into some home automation stuff and it really blew my mind of how cool this stuff was. Just wondering if anyone has played with Fibaro or Vera home automation stuff. It’s pretty cost effective so I thought I might start with a few hundred $ worth of stuff and go from there
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Hey guys I was at a customers place of business and they’re into some home automation stuff and it really blew my mind of how cool this stuff was. Just wondering if anyone has played with Fibaro or Vera home automation stuff. It’s pretty cost effective so I thought I might start with a few hundred $ worth of stuff and go from there

 

Nope, but I know my cbus shit is not cost effective :lol

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Hey guys I was at a customers place of business and they’re into some home automation stuff and it really blew my mind of how cool this stuff was. Just wondering if anyone has played with Fibaro or Vera home automation stuff. It’s pretty cost effective so I thought I might start with a few hundred $ worth of stuff and go from there

I’ve been using z-wave on Vera for over 5 years and it works really well, especially for lighting. Also use it for a few curtains, garage doors, lawn sprinklers, alarm arm and disarm and a few locks. It’s been hooked into Alexa for the last 18 months so all functions are voice controllable. Just started playing with Wemos D1 minis, which are wifi based and super cheap, and planning to use them to control more curtains and garage doors.

 

If you are planning to use z-wave for lighting, be aware that you will need neutral lines available behind your switches.

Happy to talk through any questions or visit.

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I’ve been using z-wave on Vera for over 5 years and it works really well, especially for lighting. Also use it for a few curtains, garage doors, lawn sprinklers, alarm arm and disarm and a few locks. It’s been hooked into Alexa for the last 18 months so all functions are voice controllable. Just started playing with Wemos D1 minis, which are wifi based and super cheap, and planning to use them to control more curtains and garage doors.

 

If you are planning to use z-wave for lighting, be aware that you will need neutral lines available behind your switches.

Happy to talk through any questions or visit.

 

Which controllers have you been using? It looks like the Fibaro ones are 2 or 3 wire so no neutral required but they’re about 110 a controller

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Which controllers have you been using? It looks like the Fibaro ones are 2 or 3 wire so no neutral required but they’re about 110 a controller

Mostly Aeotec / Aeon Labs.

I tried a few other brands but they were not as stable and reliable as Aeon. Never tried

Fibaro.

Right at the beginning I tried a couple of units that didn’t need neutral, but they more often than not did not respond and also ghosted quite badly, especially with LED bulbs, so I returned them and coughed up for the additional electrical work.

If they were at least reliable, I would have tried to address the ghosting with some kind of pass through or suppression.

It would definitely be worth trying the Fibaro, but make sure you test it with all possible configurations (multiple bulb types, number of lights per circuit, downlights, dimming, non dimming etc) before you make any major decisions.

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Mostly Aeotec / Aeon Labs.

I tried a few other brands but they were not as stable and reliable as Aeon. Never tried

Fibaro.

Right at the beginning I tried a couple of units that didn’t need neutral, but they more often than not did not respond and also ghosted quite badly, especially with LED bulbs, so I returned them and coughed up for the additional electrical work.

If they were at least reliable, I would have tried to address the ghosting with some kind of pass through or suppression.

It would definitely be worth trying the Fibaro, but make sure you test it with all possible configurations (multiple bulb types, number of lights per circuit, downlights, dimming, non dimming etc) before you make any major decisions.

 

Yeah I’ve got a few led down lights floating around I’ll just makeup a panel and go from there. Which controller did you go with the edge or the plus?

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Yeah I’ve got a few led down lights floating around I’ll just makeup a panel and go from there. Which controller did you go with the edge or the plus?

I’ve got an Edge, which was the newest at the time of my last upgrade and twice the price it is now :-). It works perfectly with a few plugins and 30+ devices on it, but get a Plus if you are happy to pay the extra $100.

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I’ve got an Edge, which was the newest at the time of my last upgrade and twice the price it is now :-). It works perfectly with a few plugins and 30+ devices on it, but get a Plus if you are happy to pay the extra $100.

 

It’ll only ever be for a small to medium sized home so I’m guessing that 30+ kind of devices is where I’d be at too. Are the extra bits worth it for the extra $100?

 

 

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It’ll only ever be for a small to medium sized home so I’m guessing that 30+ kind of devices is where I’d be at too. Are the extra bits worth it for the extra $100?

 

 

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If all devices are going to be z-wave, probably not worth the extra.

In my case, planning to do some MQTT integration with OpenHab for additional reporting and Alexa skill development, so the additional cpu and memory wouldn’t hurt.

You also never know what zigbee devices will be available in future.

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Running Home Assistant on a docker on Unraid File Server (can use Pi3)

Vera running 1 Zwave powerpoint (LOL) - a bit exe for me and we don't so I'm about to play with Tplink powerpoints - I'm probably going to ditch Zwave.

Arduino as a MQTT gateway for sensors - DIY sensors (temp, humidity, motion detectors and reed switches, pool temp & pH, irrigation)) - need to print some cases for all sensors

Broadcom mini & Pro for IR & RF devices (fans & TV)

Waiting for Sonos stuff to become Aus Certified - cant wait

Lights - Milight Bulbs & downlights - unfortunately not available now with Aus certification ( NZ guy was selling the downlights with certification. Ditching the 4 zone wifi gateway and building ESP8266 gateway with unlimited zones. I highly recommend the Milight bulb now as Google Home, OpenHab and HA support them natively and 1/4 price of a Philips Hue! Also the milight can now remember the last state when the light is switched off from the wall.

Planning to do underbench LED's in laundry and outside.

 

I just hate the cost of sensors (1) @ &60-$80 when you can build one for $8! inc case.

 

Programming done in NodeRed (gives the ability to port all your code to another system ie OpenHab.

 

Really wanted to go OpenHab but at the time no Google certification and Google & Philips Hue went to the cloud so milights didnt work.

 

Blue Iris (VMS) running on SFF i5 with a test Hikvision Cam (wiring done but saving up for cams)

 

Everything is basically on the bench but have simple commands for lights and fans.

 

Got a nice white 8" Lenovo Tablet for mounting to wall with charging (That project was a big one in itself due to WAF factor)

 

Except the lights, everything is in Beta stage but working. I did a lot of planning while renovating (gutted house except bedrooms)

 

Time (more than money) was my only regret as I would have liked to run relays at switch box and low voltage lines to light switches (similar to CBUS but a crapload cheaper and better).

Also put as much cat6 even thought you think you wont need it!

 

I plan to put a post up soon but this is a good thread start for Home Automation

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My idea of useful Home Automation...

 

Front gate. Remote control.

Garage door. Remote control.

Front house door. Sensor on front verandah detects for 30 seconds after remote was used to open gate. The door unlocks and swings open. Inside switch swings door closed and locks.

 

wvAWrV7.jpg

 

etHtoaK.jpg

 

My reasoning is if your car has central locking why isn't your house when you use your house far more?.

 

The gate come about more to do with the road we live on and we wanted to use the front yard much like a back yard with security.

 

The front door come after seeing my wife nearly drop one of the kids trying to find the front door keys. My kids are now 22 and 16 but yes, she nearly dropped one as a baby.

 

As much as I like Home Automation, it always struck me as the sort of thing you really are automating things that really don't need it and leaving the obvious like owe sweet, the gardens can water themselves at a set time...(but it was absolutely pissing down an hour ago)..

Owe that's nice, the lights are turning on and dimming to a level for the TV but tonight I have a letter to read first before wanting the lights dimming but the automation has taken over doing what I thought I would need...

 

See what I mean?

 

Front gate however allows me to open the locked front gate and have it open as I approach the house. I hop out the car and walk towards the front door and it unlocks and swings open.

 

Now that in my opinion is useful home automation.

 

I choose remote because of it's long range, ( about 1/2km), but it can just as easily be a phone app triggering the operators.

 

Still automation but extremely simply and user friendly I think and it does what I saw a need for to be done conveniently using automation rather than, here are 20 switched outputs you control using a timer controller and I will do it every day whether you want it being done today or not.

 

I sold a lot of front door operators to people that had some amazing home automation systems already installed in there houses.

 

Not one of them had the front door auto opening and once I installed it, they said, now this is useful. Most went the simply remote control but usually a remote button control rather than the sensor and time setup I personally use.

 

Funny thing is the front door operator itself is under $1000 however, the locking strike for the door is over $1000 for good, reliable ones like Abbloy or Lockwood brand. Both the gate and door are battery backup by the way. They have to be although with the deadlock key I can open my front door like a normal front door would be.

 

Anyway, each to themselves I guess and any automation for the house is better than none.

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Running Home Assistant on a docker on Unraid File Server (can use Pi3)

Vera running 1 Zwave powerpoint (LOL) - a bit exe for me and we don't so I'm about to play with Tplink powerpoints - I'm probably going to ditch Zwave.

Arduino as a MQTT gateway for sensors - DIY sensors (temp, humidity, motion detectors and reed switches, pool temp & pH, irrigation)) - need to print some cases for all sensors

Broadcom mini & Pro for IR & RF devices (fans & TV)

Waiting for Sonos stuff to become Aus Certified - cant wait

Lights - Milight Bulbs & downlights - unfortunately not available now with Aus certification ( NZ guy was selling the downlights with certification. Ditching the 4 zone wifi gateway and building ESP8266 gateway with unlimited zones. I highly recommend the Milight bulb now as Google Home, OpenHab and HA support them natively and 1/4 price of a Philips Hue! Also the milight can now remember the last state when the light is switched off from the wall.

Planning to do underbench LED's in laundry and outside.

 

I just hate the cost of sensors (1) @ &60-$80 when you can build one for $8! inc case.

 

Programming done in NodeRed (gives the ability to port all your code to another system ie OpenHab.

 

Really wanted to go OpenHab but at the time no Google certification and Google & Philips Hue went to the cloud so milights didnt work.

 

Blue Iris (VMS) running on SFF i5 with a test Hikvision Cam (wiring done but saving up for cams)

 

Everything is basically on the bench but have simple commands for lights and fans.

 

Got a nice white 8" Lenovo Tablet for mounting to wall with charging (That project was a big one in itself due to WAF factor)

 

Except the lights, everything is in Beta stage but working. I did a lot of planning while renovating (gutted house except bedrooms)

 

Time (more than money) was my only regret as I would have liked to run relays at switch box and low voltage lines to light switches (similar to CBUS but a crapload cheaper and better).

Also put as much cat6 even thought you think you wont need it!

 

I plan to put a post up soon but this is a good thread start for Home Automation

 

Wow a bit much to take in from the standpoint that I’m at... I like tinkering but not the level of making my own stuff. Although cheaper it takes time and programming that I’m just not interested in by the sound of things. But in saying that it is 60 odd dollars per sensor or switch cheaper... but ease of use and not fing around I don’t know

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Wow a bit much to take in from the standpoint that I’m at... I like tinkering but not the level of making my own stuff. Although cheaper it takes time and programming that I’m just not interested in by the sound of things. But in saying that it is 60 odd dollars per sensor or switch cheaper... but ease of use and not fing around I don’t know

For lighting I would stay the course with z-wave or hue, as they are at least certified. For low voltage stuff like curtains and garage door, can use very cheap ESP8266 based devices that can very easily be configured in Vera as virtual switches and single line api calls. Happy to demo or preconfigure some for you if you like.

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For lighting I would stay the course with z-wave or hue, as they are at least certified. For low voltage stuff like curtains and garage door, can use very cheap ESP8266 based devices that can very easily be configured in Vera as virtual switches and single line api calls. Happy to demo or preconfigure some for you if you like.

 

Sounds interesting. I was thinking about getting a door strike too to make entering the house easier with groceries so I don’t have to put down the groceries either

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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@djc...interested in curtain stuff..been looking at it. What have you used?

 

 

I have been using these from this seller for the last 2 years:

https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.com.au%2Fulk%2Fitm%2F181451220916

Existing ones are switched using 2 channel z-wave switches wired up to relays that short the buttons in the wired remote for a second.

Next few will be Wemos D1 minis using 3v relay boards and will be powered off a step down circuit tapped into the 12v power to the curtains.

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Sounds interesting. I was thinking about getting a door strike too to make entering the house easier with groceries so I don’t have to put down the groceries either

 

What ever strike you choose, make sure it is one that "throws" the door out of the strike when activated if you are not using an operator to physically open the door.

 

You get this wrong and you have a door that opens and then relocks unless you put pressure on the door when unlocking it but then you can jam the strike, (to much load for it to unlock successfully) and this is a problem. Even wind load on the door can jam the strike.

 

To give you some idea, good operators actually have a slight push closed feature to drive the door fully closed to take all the load off the strike prior to opening. Believe me, you do not want any load on the strike when it is trying to unlock.

 

Back to the strike....

 

You need to work out either "power/ safe" or "power/ secure".

 

Power safe means you need power to hold the lock locked and if the power fails, the door will open.

 

Power secure means you need to power to open the door and if the power fails, the door remains locked.

 

I personally use power secure because the system uses battery backup and you can open the deadlock with a key bypassing the strike's opening ability altogether like a normal door.

 

Strikes are pretty much all 12vDC @ around 1 amp but you can get 24vDC as well.

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I looked at doing my door strike, but because of the over the top front door I have its not doable without replacing the door surrounds (all glass), and the door.

 

So nixed that one :)

 

Wouldn't be operated by my cbus though, would be tied into my intercom system.

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What ever strike you choose, make sure it is one that "throws" the door out of the strike when activated if you are not using an operator to physically open the door.

 

You get this wrong and you have a door that opens and then relocks unless you put pressure on the door when unlocking it but then you can jam the strike, (to much load for it to unlock successfully) and this is a problem. Even wind load on the door can jam the strike.

 

To give you some idea, good operators actually have a slight push closed feature to drive the door fully closed to take all the load off the strike prior to opening. Believe me, you do not want any load on the strike when it is trying to unlock.

 

Back to the strike....

 

You need to work out either "power/ safe" or "power/ secure".

 

Power safe means you need power to hold the lock locked and if the power fails, the door will open.

 

Power secure means you need to power to open the door and if the power fails, the door remains locked.

 

I personally use power secure because the system uses battery backup and you can open the deadlock with a key bypassing the strike's opening ability altogether like a normal door.

 

Strikes are pretty much all 12vDC @ around 1 amp but you can get 24vDC as well.

 

I was thinking of programming it so that it stays unlocked for a period of time and then automatically locks again. Kind of like timing the lights for 3 minutes. I was looking at the FES15 locks that’ll just stay unlocked. And they’re reversible too so failsafe or secure. And it’s definitely be fail secure as I’m stuff using the key lock with it.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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@djc...interested in curtain stuff..been looking at it. What have you used?

 

@Audioenslaved Thats good you have something in mind. go with that. WHat kind of door do you have currently and where the closest power feed?

 

Just a standard door with a Lockwood dead bolt so I can use the FES15 door strike. I’ll be getting the feed from the roof some where just have to find a permanent active and neutral so I can power a 12/24V power supply.

 

 

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Just a standard door with a Lockwood dead bolt so I can use the FES15 door strike. I’ll be getting the feed from the roof some where just have to find a permanent active and neutral so I can power a 12/24V power supply.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Mine is FES15 and was lucky to have a light switch with neutral right next to it so able to tap off the light circuit with no exposed wiring.

We have it set to ‘buzz’ for only about 5 seconds and only from phone/ Apple Watch as I wouldn’t be comfortable relying on hands free / beaconing / occupancy detection for such a key security barrier.

Have you given much thought to how you would activate it without it becoming a security risk?

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Mine is FES15 and was lucky to have a light switch with neutral right next to it so able to tap off the light circuit with no exposed wiring.

We have it set to ‘buzz’ for only about 5 seconds and only from phone/ Apple Watch as I wouldn’t be comfortable relying on hands free / beaconing / occupancy detection for such a key security barrier.

Have you given much thought to how you would activate it without it becoming a security risk?

 

Yeah I’d only activate it like a timed light switch not on a barrier tech. Say for a minute or two not much longer

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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Just a standard door with a Lockwood dead bolt so I can use the FES15 door strike. I’ll be getting the feed from the roof some where just have to find a permanent active and neutral so I can power a 12/24V power supply.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

That strike looks fine. Usually only the good brands are reversible.

 

I would suggest one thing however. It was my job to think of all the possible scenarios when I did automation as a job and here is one that is why the idea of applying an open signal for a time duration on it's own fails.

 

Someone chases you, your wife or kids to the door and you try to close the door but the time delay is still holding the door strike unlocked until the time delay has expired.

 

Solution...The strike you selected has a model FES15M version that comes with Door Status Sensor (door latch monitoring) and that is the model I would be using.

 

Perfect, you wire the strike signal to hold on until that "Door Status Sensor", (a fancy name for a 5amp micro switch inside the strike with a common, NO and NC contacts), opens.

 

When this circuit through the "Door Status Sensor" opens, indicating the latch has moved out of the strike itself, the hold signal on the time delay disables and you can immediately close the door locked.

 

The time delay is better now that it dies after you open the door but remember, if you do trigger the door to unlock but don't use it, the door is ready to open should someone else push on it. I'd drop the time to roughly what time you need plus about 10 seconds and not much more.

 

Don't be surprised if that M version of the FES15 costs a ridiculous amount more but it does make installation a lot easier and makes for a better, safer installation.

 

- - - Updated - - -

 

I looked at doing my door strike, but because of the over the top front door I have its not doable without replacing the door surrounds (all glass), and the door.

 

So nixed that one :)

 

Wouldn't be operated by my cbus though, would be tied into my intercom system.

 

Maglok is your answer. Easy to install on glass doors with glass surrounds...Exactly like many office doors are in high rise buildings.

 

We did thousands of them.

 

You can get glass door strikes but MagLoks are just so much better all round. They are stupidly low powered for the brute force they can withstand BUT, you would need to have two 12-15mm bolt holes drilled in the top of your solid glass door at the top so a diamond tipped drill and a day at the glassier I'm afraid.

 

The keeper plate is attached to a header at the top door height and you run tiny, discrete, clear wires across the top of the door to the maglok itself. They are only power/secure for obvious reasons.;)

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That strike looks fine. Usually only the good brands are reversible.

 

I would suggest one thing however. It was my job to think of all the possible scenarios when I did automation as a job and here is one that is why the idea of applying an open signal for a time duration on it's own fails.

 

Someone chases you, your wife or kids to the door and you try to close the door but the time delay is still holding the door strike unlocked until the time delay has expired.

 

Solution...The strike you selected has a model FES15M version that comes with Door Status Sensor (door latch monitoring) and that is the model I would be using.

 

Perfect, you wire the strike signal to hold on until that "Door Status Sensor", (a fancy name for a 5amp micro switch inside the strike with a common, NO and NC contacts), opens.

 

When this circuit through the "Door Status Sensor" opens, indicating the latch has moved out of the strike itself, the hold signal on the time delay disables and you can immediately close the door locked.

 

The time delay is better now that it dies after you open the door but remember, if you do trigger the door to unlock but don't use it, the door is ready to open should someone else push on it. I'd drop the time to roughly what time you need plus about 10 seconds and not much more.

 

Don't be surprised if that M version of the FES15 costs a ridiculous amount more but it does make installation a lot easier and makes for a better, safer installation.

 

Yeah good idea the monitored version is only an extra $50 from memory I got some prices yesterday. I’m guessing that’s something you can code into the Vera system? Can you “change” a switch component to say that it’s for a door lock and act in that way?

 

 

 

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Yeah good idea the monitored version is only an extra $50 from memory I got some prices yesterday. I’m guessing that’s something you can code into the Vera system? Can you “change” a switch component to say that it’s for a door lock and act in that way?

 

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

There are lock device profiles in Vera, but are for specific digital locks rather than strikes. You would also need some form of sensor or switch to report back the state of the switch so action could be taken based on the code. Depending on the possible states of the switch you may be able to use the on/off input into the z-wave module as the trigger, but it would have to be tested for feasibility and then coded. May be a good candidate for an ESP8266 given the requirement for multiple inputs and outputs.

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