Jump to content
Due to a large amount of spamers, accounts will now have to be approved by the Admins so please be patient. ×
IGNORED

To LED a old SS or not To LED


Recommended Posts

buy wide warm white for GI and you can get a very good take on the classic look.

Remember its your game not the peanut gallery's. Given its 100% reversible there is no downside to doing the entire thing like an explosion at the clown factory if it pleases your eye.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The problem with many LED conversions is people think that

 

- brighter is better

 

- more colours are better

 

- daylight LEDs are the right ones to use for GI

 

Most LEDs that are available now are too bright. The old incandescent 6.3 V bulbs aren't that bright; why not replace them with something that's the same brightness (or maybe just a bit brighter), rather than thinking "Oh my God, I can have GI bulbs that are twice as bright as the original bulbs!" Go and do that, and the whole balanced effect of light and dark on the playfield gets destroyed, and the machine ends up looking like it's being illuminated by the stadium lights at the Gabba…

 

Colour-matched insert LEDs look really great. More saturated than the original, without being over the top. (Tip: use warm white for yellow and orange inserts, and colour-match the others. For white inserts, warm white is almost always better than cool white.) Don't use 2SMD bulbs, or your inserts will be so bright as to be annoying.

 

For GI, exercise restraint with the coloured LEDs. A few coloured LEDs here and there can look great, if you match them to the mood and style of the artwork. But go too far, and the machine will look like it's been in an explosion at a paint factory. Even in pinball, there is room for subtlety…

 

If you use cool white LEDs for GI, you'll almost certainly be disappointed. Unless the game has artwork that works well with the cold blue tinge of cool white, things are going to just look wrong.

 

Don't use LEDs without diffusor caps for GI. Any SMD that is exposed and is directly visible by the player just causes retina burn. The only time an SMD without a diffusor cap is appropriate is when there is no way that the player will ever look at it directly, such as an LED in a spotlight that points away from the player, or an LED that is hidden by some playfield element and you want to take advantage of the sharp shadows that are thrown by SMDs.

 

On almost all machines, you can look at some part of a GI bulb directly, sometimes though a gap between a post and a plastic part or some such. Without a diffusor, those SMD GI replacements just create irritating bright spots in the player's vision.

 

I've been experimenting a fair bit with all this, and made my share of mistakes. I ended up with mostly lower-output LEDs with diffusor caps, and by going easy on the colours. For the inserts, I'm using Comet non-ghosting LEDs. They don't ghost or flicker, period. (The Cointaker ones that were installed when I bought the machine were ghosting so badly, it was sometimes difficult to tell whether an insert was on or off.)

 

Michi.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Dear Michi

 

This is the best piece of led advice I have read. I agree with everything you have said. Spot on in my opinion. Thanks for sharing.

 

The problem with many LED conversions is people think that

 

- brighter is better

 

- more colours are better

 

- daylight LEDs are the right ones to use for GI

 

Most LEDs that are available now are too bright. The old incandescent 6.3 V bulbs aren't that bright; why not replace them with something that's the same brightness (or maybe just a bit brighter), rather than thinking "Oh my God, I can have GI bulbs that are twice as bright as the original bulbs!" Go and do that, and the whole balanced effect of light and dark on the playfield gets destroyed, and the machine ends up looking like it's being illuminated by the stadium lights at the Gabba…

 

Colour-matched insert LEDs look really great. More saturated than the original, without being over the top. (Tip: use warm white for yellow and orange inserts, and colour-match the others. For white inserts, warm white is almost always better than cool white.) Don't use 2SMD bulbs, or your inserts will be so bright as to be annoying.

 

For GI, exercise restraint with the coloured LEDs. A few coloured LEDs here and there can look great, if you match them to the mood and style of the artwork. But go too far, and the machine will look like it's been in an explosion at a paint factory. Even in pinball, there is room for subtlety…

 

If you use cool white LEDs for GI, you'll almost certainly be disappointed. Unless the game has artwork that works well with the cold blue tinge of cool white, things are going to just look wrong.

 

Don't use LEDs without diffusor caps for GI. Any SMD that is exposed and is directly visible by the player just causes retina burn. The only time an SMD without a diffusor cap is appropriate is when there is no way that the player will ever look at it directly, such as an LED in a spotlight that points away from the player, or an LED that is hidden by some playfield element and you want to take advantage of the sharp shadows that are thrown by SMDs.

 

On almost all machines, you can look at some part of a GI bulb directly, sometimes though a gap between a post and a plastic part or some such. Without a diffusor, those SMD GI replacements just create irritating bright spots in the player's vision.

 

I've been experimenting a fair bit with all this, and made my share of mistakes. I ended up with mostly lower-output LEDs with diffusor caps, and by going easy on the colours. For the inserts, I'm using Comet non-ghosting LEDs. They don't ghost or flicker, period. (The Cointaker ones that were installed when I bought the machine were ghosting so badly, it was sometimes difficult to tell whether an insert was on or off.)

 

Michi.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The only downside is loss of the original look of the machine.

 

That's a hairy one. "Original look"… It's hard to know where to draw the line.

 

If "original look" means "exactly like it was made way back when", I agree. LEDs are wrong in that case. They come close to the "original look", but they are never exactly the same as incandescent illumination.

 

On the other hand, if "original look" can be stretched a bit to mean "a little bit brighter than the original without being overpowering, with tasteful accents here and there", I'd say the result is an improvement: if the original designer had had the technology available at the time, he probably would have used it.

 

In the end, it all comes down to taste and being sensitive to the original artwork and the intent of the designer. If there is an area of the playfield that is dark, it might be because the company was too stingy to shell out for an extra four GI lamps when they were maxed out on all the strings already, or it may be because the designer wanted it dark because he thought that things would be more interesting that way. Figure out which, and act accordingly.

 

In the end, any modification to a machine, no matter how minor, will change the "original look". If I'm a purist who collects machines in as close to original condition as possible, modifications are a big deal, and LEDs are a no-no. If I'm an enthusiast who gets sick of the heat from the incandescents gradually destroying all the plastics, or who gets sick of endlessly replacing light bulbs that cook themselves to death, LEDs are a godsend.

 

I'm afraid there is no one true way.

 

Michi.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

I'm using Comet non-ghosting LEDs. They don't ghost or flicker, period. (The Cointaker ones that were installed when I bought the machine were ghosting so badly, it was sometimes difficult to tell whether an insert was on or off.)

 

Michi.

 

Miichi - thanks for you post

... regarding the comet LEDs have you tried them on a Bally SS (eg Centaur), would they flicker?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

... regarding the comet LEDs have you tried them on a Bally SS (eg Centaur), would they flicker?

 

I'm sorry, but I have no idea. The same LED can flicker in one machine, but not in another. I first bought just a small number to try them out, and then bought more later for the rest of the machine, and to correct some mistakes I made where I wasn't happy with the look.

 

For the inserts, I used the frosted version of these: http://www.cometpinball.com/product-p/1smd5050ng.htm

 

They are not too bright, and I see absolutely no flicker or ghosting.

 

Michi.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

With the Bally SS machines, I just use the resistor piggyback boards to eliminate the flicker (or fast blinking).

You still may get some flicker if the board is tired and may have to change a few scr's to eradicate it.

 

If you want to go full original look, then just use a 1Led glass dome warm white.

 

70s - 80 SS I use warm

80's Sys 11 , I use 2Led glass cool white.

 

Dmd I use the same as Sys11 unless throwing in some coloured ones.

 

Inserts I'll use smd but I think a frosted dome gives better displacement.

The 2led frosted for inserts if you don't want it overpowering.

 

 

Sent from iPhone using Tapatalk

Link to comment
Share on other sites

With the Bally SS machines, I just use the resistor piggyback boards to eliminate the flicker (or fast blinking).

You still may get some flicker if the board is tired and may have to change a few scr's to eradicate it.

 

If you want to go full original look, then just use a 1Led glass dome warm white.

 

70s - 80 SS I use warm

80's Sys 11 , I use 2Led glass cool white.

 

Dmd I use the same as Sys11 unless throwing in some coloured ones.

 

Inserts I'll use smd but I think a frosted dome gives better displacement.

The 2led frosted for inserts if you don't want it overpowering.

 

 

Sent from iPhone using Tapatalk

 

 

On my Sys11 (Pin*bot) I use similar as you but I get some issues with the larger ones for Pinbot's eyes. this was a gradual issue, it was perfect at first, but gradually some intermittent flashing and fade. Do I need special ones in there do you think ?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On my Sys11 (Pin*bot) I use similar as you but I get some issues with the larger ones for Pinbot's eyes. this was a gradual issue, it was perfect at first, but gradually some intermittent flashing and fade. Do I need special ones in there do you think ?

Not in pinbot.

I'd look at the state of the sockets or if they are cheap LEDs.

Try another type.

 

 

 

Sent from iPhone using Tapatalk

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Here's the difference colour-matched LED's made in my Pin*Bot backglass, the difference is night and day:

 

When I got it, all standard:

 

1_before.jpg

 

With colour LED's:

 

3_I_see_you.jpg

 

2_after.jpg

 

The playfield looks just as cool, for me it was worth it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...