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LoTR always thinks a ball is missing


richyrich

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Hi Guys,

my LoTR keeps telling me there is a ball missing during start up.

It takes 20 seconds to fire all coils etc to check, then plays normally.

There is ,of course no balls missing?

I assume it is a sensor issue??

Any clues, greatly appreciated.

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Check the ball trough optos individually and give them a clean if necessary.

 

When it powers up the two red led light on the transmitter light up.

Should the leds on the receiver light?

What is the best way to clean them? Windex?

 

- - - Updated - - -

 

Balls also could be magnetised. Do you have blings installed? Sometimes causes these types of issues

 

They are bling, I changed balls, same result

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LoTR always thinks a ball is missing

 

First check the connectors to the opto board. You need to go into menu and check the optos when you roll each balls into the trough. It should register for each Ball separately

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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First check the connectors to the opto board. You need to go into menu and check the optos when you roll each balls into the trough. It should register for each Ball separately

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

Thanks, did the test and it showed no ball in position 13, when there clearly is.

Does this mean by replacing transmitter and receiver will fix the prob?

 

- - - Updated - - -

 

The RX doesn't light & windex & a cotton bud work fine. You can check the IR Optos via the switch edge in the utility menu.

 

Many thanks

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Hi Guys,

my LoTR keeps telling me there is a ball missing during start up.

It takes 20 seconds to fire all coils etc to check, then plays normally.

There is ,of course no balls missing?

I assume it is a sensor issue??

Any clues, greatly appreciated.

 

Hey Rich,

 

Do you have this sorted mate?

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Not sure yet Con, Im waiting on some new opto boards.

It seems the 3rd switch in the ball trough doesn't register, so maybe its the switch?

[ATTACH=CONFIG]119625[/ATTACH]

[ATTACH=CONFIG]119626[/ATTACH]

 

Hey Rich,

 

Thanks for the photos, makes things very easy to work out for you.

 

I think that the optos are fine. Make sure opto connections are tight. Very easy to check. In test mode, move the plunger (that shoots the ball in to the shooter lane) up slowly until 15 comes on. If that happens it is not your opto boards. Switch 14 is operating correctly as I can see from your photos.

 

From your photo to me looks like switch 13 is not operating correctly. Can only be 4 things. Bad connection, Switch is stuffed (replace), roller is flat (replace) or switch needs adjusting.

 

Bad connection: Check all the wires and make sure there are no dry joints or wires that have fallen off. This happens to even the best kept machines.

Switch is stuffed: In test mode, balls out, see if you can get the switch to operate by moving it up and down with your fingers. If you can, then you need to check if the roller has gone flat. You should be able to check out the roller without removing any switches. If roller is good and switch works (100%) all you need to do is adjust the switch. You can loosen the two black bolts holding the switch in place. The switch will move forward, backwards, up and down until you get it in the right spot. Check by rolling a ball through the trough and the switch activates every time. If this does not work, you will need to bend the switch edge until you get it right. I can see that the rear black bolt is missing from switch 13. Look in the bottom of the machine to see if you can find it or if it is broken replace it. This is a definite explanation for the switch not operating correctly. Machine needs that bolt to hold switch in correct position.

 

If the switch needs replacing, make sure machine is turned off. Remove the two black bolts and the switch will fall out the bottom. You will need to remember where the cardboard spacers go back in. Also take careful note (photos) of the diode and which way it is soldered in. Resolder a new one in and adjust!

 

The fact that the ball search comes on at start up indicates that the issue is with 11, 12, 13, or 14. Remember the one golden rule of fixing pinball machine. The PCBs are always last! Normally when one of the opto s is bad, machine will keep spitting balls out in to the shooter lane. Optos usually suffer from loose connections or dry solder joints.

 

Good luck and happy flipping!!

 

Con

Edited by pinballaddicted
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Hey Rich,

 

Thanks for the photos, makes things very easy to work out for you.

 

I think that the optos are fine. Make sure opto connections are tight. Very easy to check. In test mode, move the plunger (that shoots the ball in to the shooter lane) up slowly until 15 comes on. If that happens it is not your opto boards. Switch 14 is operating correctly as I can see from your photos.

 

From your photo to me looks like switch 13 is not operating correctly. Can only be 4 things. Bad connection, Switch is stuffed (replace), roller is flat (replace) or switch needs adjusting.

 

Bad connection: Check all the wires and make sure there are no dry joints or wires that have fallen off. This happens to even the best kept machines.

Switch is stuffed: In test mode, balls out, see if you can get the switch to operate by moving it up and down with your fingers. If you can, then you need to check if the roller has gone flat. You should be able to check out the roller without removing any switches. If roller is good and switch works (100%) all you need to do is adjust the switch. You can loosen the two black bolts holding the switch in place. The switch will move forward, backwards, up and down until you get it in the right spot. Check by rolling a ball through the trough and the switch activates every time. If this does not work, you will need to bend the switch edge until you get it right. I can see that the rear black bolt is missing from switch 13. Look in the bottom of the machine to see if you can find it or if it is broken replace it. This is a definite explanation for the switch not operating correctly. Machine needs that bolt to hold switch in correct position.

 

If the switch needs replacing, make sure machine is turned off. Remove the two black bolts and the switch will fall out the bottom. You will need to remember where the cardboard spacers go back in. Also take careful note (photos) of the diode and which way it is soldered in. Resolder a new one in and adjust!

 

The fact that the ball search comes on at start up indicates that the issue is with 11, 12, 13, or 14. Remember the one golden rule of fixing pinball machine. The PCBs are always last! Normally when one of the opto s is bad, machine will keep spitting balls out in to the shooter lane. Optos usually suffer from loose connections or dry solder joints.

 

Good luck and happy flipping!!

 

Con

 

Great explanation, thanks Con

14 and 15 work, same as 11 ,12

13 fully depresses when a ball is rolled over, so switch is positioned properly.

Can t get it do anything when pushed by fingers,so it must be stuffed.

I removed the other black screw, as I was taking it out, when I took the pic.

The problem is how to remove the remaining screw.

It is flush mounted , 004.thumb.jpg.e517aba97a580f2ac73cc95c130074fc.jpgof course, whilst the other switches have that screw is protruding.

The is not much room to get a tool in.

I will work it out, now

Thanks so much for your time

Never replaced a diode, but doesnt look too hard

At least having problems , helps the learning curve on future things that occur

Appreciate you passing on your knowledge.

Have to catch up for that beer, one day

cheers

Rich

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Great explanation, thanks Con

14 and 15 work, same as 11 ,12

13 fully depresses when a ball is rolled over, so switch is positioned properly.

Can t get it do anything when pushed by fingers,so it must be stuffed.

I removed the other black screw, as I was taking it out, when I took the pic.

The problem is how to remove the remaining screw.

It is flush mounted , [ATTACH=CONFIG]119668[/ATTACH]of course, whilst the other switches have that screw is protruding.

The is not much room to get a tool in.

I will work it out, now

Thanks so much for your time

Never replaced a diode, but doesnt look too hard

At least having problems , helps the learning curve on future things that occur

Appreciate you passing on your knowledge.

Have to catch up for that beer, one day

cheers

Rich

 

Hey Rich.

 

This hobby is all about helping others. You should be able to loosen the bolt by moving the back of the switch up and down. I had to go and buy a small watchmakers set from bunnings to get ours off. Make sure the machine is off. Once you have the switch out do not disconnect anything yet. If you have contact cleaner, spray some underneath the switch blade and see if you can loosen the switch. Make sure that you do not get contact cleaner any where else as it will stain. If the roller is in tact and the switch edge still moves up and down and has not come off its mounts chances are there is a small bit of dirt in the switch. You will feel it start clicking. If you can get it to click, turn the machine back on put in test and see if the switch works. If you can get the switch to work, again a small amount of WD40 only in the switch mec will keep it working until you can replace it. You cannot get WD40 anywhere on the rest of the machine either. It stains Everything.

 

If you have to replace the switch, you will have to re-use the same diode if you do not have any new ones. If you are a good solderer like my wife its easy!

 

0429790822 if you get stuck. SMS first. It is my work phone and rings 24/7 so I will not answer anyone not in my contacts.

 

There will be some bourbon flowing when I fit our colour DMD to twdle tonight!

 

Good luck!

 

Con

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For safety sake please note WD40 & RP7 are an oil & kerosene mix. It's flammable & not recommened to use on circuits. I have a burn mark on the concrete floor to prove it. Don't use it, be warned.

Use a silicon or better still an electronic cleaner & lube purpose designed for this job.

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]

For safety sake please note WD40 & RP7 are an oil & kerosene mix. It's flammable & not recommened to use on circuits. I have a burn mark on the concrete floor to prove it. Don't use it, be warned.

Use a silicon or better still an electronic cleaner & lube purpose designed for this job.

IMG_4275.thumb.jpg.ad990202c05e318b59ae90bfd278804f.jpg

 

Like this Rich with that product

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LoTR always thinks a ball is missing

 

I have the reverse problem @pinballaddicted , my Tron sometimes spits out 2 balls into the shooter lane, or occasionally counts down bonus mid ball and spits out another one. It has two optos and 3 microswitches and they all seem to work fine on edge test and look like they are adjusted properly. Here are photos of the optos, never looked at one of these before, one is slight red, the other nothing. I guess the bright red ones are the transmitters, they are both super bright. adb5b5ef333261e70e17dc9c4b1a8911.jpgf8cf2ed39ba4fb6685290b9e88579165.jpg

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I have the reverse problem @pinballaddicted , my Tron sometimes spits out 2 balls into the shooter lane, or occasionally counts down bonus mid ball and spits out another one. It has two optos and 3 microswitches and they all seem to work fine on edge test and look like they are adjusted properly. Here are photos of the optos, never looked at one of these before, one is slight red, the other nothing. I guess the bright red ones are the transmitters, they are both super bright. adb5b5ef333261e70e17dc9c4b1a8911.jpgf8cf2ed39ba4fb6685290b9e88579165.jpg

 

Can you please take photo's of the other side of both opto boards , I can't remember if there is any other places the ball might sit when it is in tron .eg captive ball. For this to happen the machine must think a ball is missing. Could be a loose connection on the opto's

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Can you please take photo's of the other side of both opto boards , I can't remember if there is any other places the ball might sit when it is in tron .eg captive ball. For this to happen the machine must think a ball is missing. Could be a loose connection on the opto's

 

Thx, I'll take more photos.

 

This one stumped my tech when he visited, I'm pretty sure he reflowed the pins on the opto boards, don't know about the head box. It still has original connectors.

 

There is nowhere on the PF the ball is locked, just one scoop which immediately ejects. This behaviour suggests to me the game thinks the ball trough is full when it is not. (Ending the Ball prematurely or spitting 2 balls into the shooter lane).

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I am going to need some help to help you .

Has the machine done this since you have owned it ?

What message do you get on start up, if any ?

Does the machine display these issues when there is only one ball in play ?

Does it only display the issues during multiball ?

Do you have another machine that you can swap out the opto's to eliminate them as the problem , I don't think that is the issue, but we need to eliminate them .

Are there any mod's on the machine , if so, what are they and where are they connected to the wires, I will need photo's to eliminate that as well.

Is there a shaker motor fitted ? If so there must be a filter on the CPU board , is this fitted ?

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LoTR always thinks a ball is missing

 

Thx, I'll take more photos.

 

This one stumped my tech when he visited, I'm pretty sure he reflowed the pins on the opto boards, don't know about the head box. It still has original connectors.

 

There is nowhere on the PF the ball is locked, just one scoop which immediately ejects. This behaviour suggests to me the game thinks the ball trough is full when it is not. (Ending the Ball prematurely or spitting 2 balls into the shooter lane).

 

 

I had this problem before. The opto connectors get loose and slightly move. I just take them off and back on. Then all good for a while. Timezone actually replace the connectors with other types. I was just thinking about placing silicon on them

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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I had this problem before. The opto connectors get loose and slightly move. I just take them off and back on. Then all good for a while. Timezone actually replace the connectors with other types. I was just thinking about placing silicon on them

 

I agree completely with this, when you have the game thinking you have drained when you haven't just unplug and replug in the connectors on the trough.

 

Sounds simple but that's all it is, a loose connection.

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