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Autosteve said:
Meter directly across the coil. AC setting and you should see the voltage the coil is using when it is pulsed in the score reset proceedure. Measuring at the coil itself means you should see no voltage unless the coil is being pulsed and these pulses should be around 28volt.

Thanks Steve, I did that on Sunday and for working reels I was getting a reading any time the coil got a pulse which logically to me was whenever it checked and the reel was no on 0. Once it reached zero, no more pulses. In my mind thats how I understand it to work. It worked for known working reels but not on the bad 4.

FYI I did a continuity check on those coils and they check out.

Autosteve said:
If you have nothing and you know the coil should be getting powered, try momentarily shorting the switch that breaks when the coil pulls in. It is visible in your picture. Short the tabs where the wires are soldered, not the blades. In some switch stacks, the tabs are not part of the blades and rely on them touching each other in the stack. DON"T rely on this touching each other. They can go open circuit and may need cleaning to maintain the contact.

I tried this although I didn't have anything decent to cross it with although I have little time on weeknights to do much. Bad reels - Coil was not getting power although I want properly check this on the weekend again

Autosteve said:
P.S. your meter reading low is usually a sign the meter's battery needs changing. My top of the line Fluke meter does this which I think is a stupid idea. I would prefer the meter not to work as a sign to change the battery because this low voltage reading has fooled me more than once. I went to throw out a 12volt car battery because the Fluke claimed it only had 9 volts in it indicating a battery beyond recovery. As a last check I changed the meter's battery. 12volts was the new reading.

Good call, I put in a new 9 volt battery so should be good now.

goodolddays said:
Hi @ Autosteve. I still think it would be easier to check first that there is power on the +ve side of the coil using the method I described earlier however both methods will of course work. My bad mentioning DC in the first place

 

Cheers

Dave

 

Sent from my SM-A520F using Aussie Arcade mobile app

Thanks Dave! I tried your method but I'm not sure I'm doing it right. When I have positive probe on coil lug and ground on bulb lug I get no readings whatsoever on both good and bad reels. Tried swapping probes around and alternating coil lugs with no joy.

Then tried different multimeter settings, still no joy. Tried a number of different ground points. I think I'm doing something wrong.

Given the pulse test it seems the bad reels are not getting power.

Cheers,

Brad

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Hi Brad.

Just had a look at the schematic and the power side of the score reel coils is the BLACK wire which is 24V AC and you should read 24V AC on each of those score reel coils when the game is turned on (no need to start a game)

 

The problem I see with Steve's suggestion of measuring across the coil is that test does not isolate the issue to either no power to the coil or no earth to the coil . Personally I have never tested that way in more than 10 years of working on EM's (mostly Williams) . Any YELLOW wire in the machine is an Earth point .

 

Another simple test is to check the black wire is actually attached to the score reel coil for those reels not moving by giving it a bit of a tug (same with the wire attached to earth lug) . There is also the possibility that you have one or more broken coil windings .. in my experience if these do break its usually at or near the solder lug on the coil .

 

Cheers

Dave

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goodolddays said:
Hi Brad.

Just had a look at the schematic and the power side of the score reel coils is the BLACK wire which is 24V AC and you should read 24V AC on each of those score reel coils when the game is turned on (no need to start a game)

The problem I see with Steve's suggestion of measuring across the coil is that test does not isolate the issue to either no power to the coil or no earth to the coil . Personally I have never tested that way in more than 10 years of working on EM's (mostly Williams) . Any YELLOW wire in the machine is an Earth point .

Another simple test is to check the black wire is actually attached to the score reel coil for those reels not moving by giving it a bit of a tug (same with the wire attached to earth lug) . There is also the possibility that you have one or more broken coil windings .. in my experience if these do break its usually at or near the solder lug on the coil .

Cheers

Dave

Thanks Dave,

I'll have a look when I get home!

Cheers,

Brad

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Great idea ! and far too simple :) :)

 

It's super useful when you're trying to decode why once in every 3 times the player unit step 3 instead of 4 times or something like that, I can watch the bulb in the back bock blinking against the wall while I'm standing at the front of the machine playing.

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ajfclark said:
It's super useful when you're trying to decode why once in every 3 times the player unit step 3 instead of 4 times or something like that, I can watch the bulb in the back bock blinking against the wall while I'm standing at the front of the machine playing.

That's a fantastic idea!

Cheers,

Brad

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When all else fails, pull out the diagram aye.;)

 

szQh6RI.jpg

 

And this picture showing your problem reels are

Player 1...100s and 10s

Player 3...100s and 1s

 

 

0ogQuzl.jpg

 

Therefore I would be checking these yellow circled contacts until you find which "ones" are not making contact or a broken wire. I says ones because I can't see anyway only one could effect all the effected reels by itself.

 

gjoBqpx.jpg

 

Make curtain you do have 24vAC between the black wire to effected score reels and either flipper cabinet switch, ( should be a yellow wire and it's a convenient neutral wire location)

Once you check this, you know you are getting 24v active to the coils. If you get 24v at the black wire on the reel coil, (leaving the meter cable on the flipper switch), move the meter lead on the coil to the other terminal on the same reel coil. You should see 24v. If you don't, the coil is open circuit. If you do, move the same meter lead along to the next yellow circled switch in the diagram. One side of this switch should have 24v to it, the other side no. The rest of reels do these same tests and hopefully you will find the problems here, If not you need to check the other switches manually anfd find which ones are remaining open circuit or have a broken wire.

 

The light bulb tester is good but don't try using it in the manner of testing I have described above. It will work fine testing the coil but as soon as you go to the other side of the coil and beyond, not so good. Use a meter.

 

Half the yellow circled contacts are on the 3rd/4th reset relay and the 1st/2nd reset relay.

 

The other half are what looks like "open @ index *** player, *** point drum unit". Not familiar what the hell a drum unit is but hopefully these are labelled on your machine.

 

Pretty sure this will help in getting those score reels working.;)

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Wow thanks Steve!

I'll need to decipher this into its physical form but this is a great help. thanks for the detailed drawings!

I won't be able to try this or any of you guys diagnostics tips until the weekend but between all of them I'm sure I can get this going 🙂

Cheers,

Brad

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So option 1 here?

 

meter.thumb.jpg.23d0ce221d4f8d6c6d24552556f72942.jpg

 

If so, I'm getting readings on known good reels and I tested on 1 bad reel. The readings aren't static though and seem to move although I only have the needle type probe points. Really need those clip ones I reckon.

 

Cheers,

 

Brad

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So option 1 here?

 

https://www.aussiearcade.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=155263

 

If so, I'm getting readings on known good reels and I tested on 1 bad reel. The readings aren't static though and seem to move although I only have the needle type probe points. Really need those clip ones I reckon.

 

Cheers,

 

Brad

yes option 1 for 24V AC reading. Highly recommend making up a pair of long leads with alligator clips on each end. Clip one end to each meter probe and the other end to whatever measurement points you are checking in your EM pinball. I find the long leads are perfect. Need to be long enough to reach from inside backbox to rear of coin door. Much easier than just using meter probes.

 

Sent from my SM-A520F using Aussie Arcade mobile app

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Exactly what I was thinking. You'd think in all the "junk" I have I'd have some alligator clips but nope. I'm about to head out so going to pick some up!

Thanks for your help as always 🙂

Cheers,

Brad

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Sounds like you have a break in the 24V wiring on at least one of these non working coils. If you set your meter to the next setting right (or anticlockwise) of option 3 then your meter will beep when you have continuity. You can check you have the right setting by touching the 2 probes together. Will be much easier to explain if you give me a call

I suggest you need to check for continuity on the 24V wire.

Cheers

Dave

 

Sent from my SM-A520F using Aussie Arcade mobile app

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Not unusual to get readings all over the place when using probes on old solder joints. Oxidization is the reason. Alligator clip on the one of the leads is ideal, (it saves you having to hold it), but on the other end I prefer a needle heatshrinked to the original probe. The needle digs through the skin of oxidization on the solder joints with minimal effort. To heatshrink the needle in place, put a needle longer than the probe against the probe and position the blunt end of the needle up to the plastic. This is so the needle doesn't slide and heatshrink it in place.

The heatshrink is to hold the needle against the probe and when you put pressure on the needle, the plastic on the probe stops it from sliding.

 

Right now you are doing an EM but you may want to do this when probing IC legs on chips or traces on PC boards. It makes life easy knowing the probe won't slip shorting two IC legs together.

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Okay I've been out most of the day but I did pick up some supplies and made some extension wires with alligator clips and just did a quick test

Ground connected to bulb socket

20191019_161259.jpg

Positive connected to coil lug. Note I tried both lugs with the same result

20191019_161324.jpg

Meter reading on every reel I tried both working and non-working

20191019_161336.jpg

If I switch the meter to DC and measure a new AAA battery I get 1.6 volts so not sure the meter is the problem :unsure

Cheers,

Brad

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Okay I've been out most of the day but I did pick up some supplies and made some extension wires with alligator clips and just did a quick test

 

Ground connected to bulb socket

 

https://harmoniseit.com/pinballrestore/scorereels/20191019_161259.jpg

 

Positive connected to coil lug. Note I tried both lugs with the same result

 

https://harmoniseit.com/pinballrestore/scorereels/20191019_161324.jpg

 

Meter reading on every reel I tried both working and non-working

 

https://harmoniseit.com/pinballrestore/scorereels/20191019_161336.jpg

 

If I switch the meter to DC and measure a new AAA battery I get 1.6 volts so not sure the meter is the problem :unsure

 

Cheers,

 

Brad

Hi Brad.. suggest use a known good earth for black probe of your meter such as Transformer earth lug now that you have made up long leads.

 

Cheers

Dave

 

Sent from my SM-A520F using Aussie Arcade mobile app

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  • 2 years later...

Wow this is amazing I just flipped thru all 19 pages and don’t see the finished product?  We are in USA my husband has this machine with no back glass at all.  How did the art work come out for your machine would you be willing to share the file and size so I can try to make one for him for Father’s Day gift??  

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9 hours ago, Railways said:

I would say thats a resto bump @Brad  

A pretty subtle one Jeff 😆

I responded and linked to the artwork files in a PM response I got. I'll link here as well if anyone is interested. Note that I still have not gotten around to scanning the back of the glass yet (life got in the way)

Also I have not moved on since my last post. Embarrassing but I got frustrated with the issue and put it aside for a bit. Unfortunately, that bit is a little longer then anticipated 😨

High Quality jpeg: https://harmoniseit.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/04/re-touch_wip.zip

AI Vector File: https://harmoniseit.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/04/agogobackglass_wip.zip

Cheers,

Brad

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