• Enraged
  • Embarrased
  • Drunk
  • Down
  • Depressed
  • Crying
  • Crazy
  • Cool
  • Cocky
  • Bemused
  • Awesome
  • Annoyed
  • Angry
  • Amused
  • Friendly
  • Geeky
  • Godly
  • Happy
  • Hateful
  • Hungry
  • Innocent
  • Meh
  • Piratey
  • Poorly
  • Sad
  • Secret
  • Shy
  • Sneaky
  • Tired
  • Wtf
  • Page 3 of 3 FirstFirst 123
    Results 21 to 27 of 27

    Thread: Putting a Pin on Site

    1. #21
      Lou's Avatar
      Lou is offline
      This user has no status.
       
      ----
       

      Join Date
      Sep 2011
      State
      victoria
      Posts
      1,828
      Mentioned
      46 Post(s)
      Quoted
      572 Post(s)
      Australia

      insurance is not the problem - the below right up is , public liability is on a building and not a single item unless that single item is hired for out doors in public space - in that case you do need public liability
      hypothetical.. say you got pinball in a carpeted venue and there is a hole in the carpet 6 feet from the pinball - you trip and hit your head on the machine who is at fault ? the carpet or the machine
      being in it's way ?

      Q.Does a vending machine business have to register each machine ID, each location & each client name to protect ownership title to each vending machine?

      I assume that the vending machines are leased or hired for a term exceeding 1 year. The definition of a PPS lease relevantly provides:

      ‘13(1) A PPS lease means a lease or bailment of goods:

      (a) for a term of more than one year; or

      (b) for an indefinite term (even if the lease or bailment is determinable by any party within a year of entering into the lease or bailment); or

      (c) for a term of up to one year that is automatically renewable …; or

      (d) for a term of up to one year, in a case in which the lessee or bailee, with the consent of the lessor or bailor, retains uninterrupted possession of the leased or bailed property for a period of more than one year after the day the lessee or bailee first acquired possession of the property …’

      If the vending machines are leased/hired to different grantors then a separate security interest will need to be registered on the PPSR in respect of each grantor. It would be registered under the collateral class of ‘tangible property – other goods’. It would be prudent to insert in the free text field particulars of the location of each vending machine.

      If multiple vending machines are leased/hired to one grantor, and there is insufficient space in the free text field (which takes up to 500 words), an attempt should be made to give the best description possible. It may be possible to attach a schedule to the registration even though it is not an intention of the PPSR to be a document lodgement system.


      Rent or hire? It’s PPSA or perish!
      The Personal Property Securities Act 2009 (PPSA) continues to bite sectors of the business community that have historically had little need for engagement in formal business arrangements. Recently, this firm has been involved in a number of matters relating to rental, hire or bailment
      of goods to companies that have become insolvent.

      The unfortunate outcome for the providers of the goods in each case was to quickly learn that it made no difference whether or not they ‘owned’ the goods – the PPSA may find that the goods are able to be legally sold by the liquidator without any recourse for the apparent‘owner’.

      You might ask “How is this possible?!” The simple explanation is as follows:

      • The PPSA provides that goods subject to hire, rental or bailment (where access is granted subject to a fee, or connected with some other commercial arrangement), create ‘security interests’ that must be documented (i.e. in writing);

      • Depending on the type of goods and the duration of the term of hire, rent or bailment, the security interests need to be ‘registered’ on the Personal Property Securities Register (PPSR) –www.ppsr.gov.au

      • Once correctly registered, the security interest is said to be ‘perfected’; and

      • Generally, only perfected security interests can be enforced against a liquidator or bankruptcy trustee.

      Our experience, where this has not happened, includes:

      • A hirer of arcade-style amusement machines did not have a written hire agreement in place and the arrangement was deemed to be a PPS Lease. The undocumented alleged security interest could not be enforced against the Liquidators, who took possession of the machines;

      • A hirer of vending machines was deemed to be exposed to a PPS Lease for the placement of his machines in the Company’s premises. The arrangement was not documented or registered on the PPSR. The Liquidator was able to successfully sell the machines at auction;

      • A soft drink supplier provided a branded refrigerator as part of a commercial arrangement under which a Company was obliged to buy drinks exclusively from that supplier. The supply of the fridge was deemed a bailment for value and therefore a PPS Lease. No registration on the PPSR was made for the fridge and the Liquidators took possession and sold the fridge at auction.

      This area of the law will continue to affect businesses who choose to ignore it. As always, early, trusted advice can help reduce risk and consequential loss.

    2. #22
      Autosteve is offline
      This user has no status.
       
      ----
       

      Join Date
      Dec 2016
      State
      Barden Ridge NSW
      Posts
      1,188
      Mentioned
      41 Post(s)
      Quoted
      438 Post(s)
      Australia
      I'm not going to give any real details but a redemption machine at a venue I maintained had "allegedly" caused a customer to receive an electric shock.

      I looked around, multimeter in hand and found if I measured between a redemption machine and an Iceball, yes, 70volts potential between the redemption machine and the metal on the front of the Iceball.

      At court I heard the customer showed up wearing a leg brace, supposedly from the shock she received to the leg.

      That cost the company I worked for over $60000 in an out of court settlement.

      The problem was actually caused by the redemption machine's power plug half hanging out of a cheap power board and the earth pin was the pin that wasn't connecting therefore no ground so when she touched it and the Iceball metal that was earthed with her leg, 70 volts went though her and out her leg.

      I would call that a 1 in 1,000,000 chance of happening again but that redemption machine was pulled, a new plug was put on the lead and the company policy was to not allow the use of those cheap power boards for powering the arcades any longer.

      Bare in mind this machine like all the ones that were operated had been tested and tagged as in NSW, this test and tag procedure has to be done yearly and the tag "MUST" be attached to the lead of the machine.

    3. #23
      jason1's Avatar
      jason1 is offline
      is Olivia's Penny Arcade
       
      ----
       

      Join Date
      Apr 2012
      State
      qld
      Posts
      2,114
      Mentioned
      56 Post(s)
      Quoted
      575 Post(s)
      Australia
      No one is denying the PPSA part @Lou and is good information to share, thank you

      But I Still dont get the point your trying to make with the insurance aspect of not needing to protect your self.

      I dont know who is at liable on your hypothetical. might be leaning towards the venue for the carpet causing the trip?. I could be wrong so id feel better about being insured.

      there are plenty of insurance policies offered by many insurers who offer cover for vending machines and operators, and in the grand scheme of things isnt that expensive.
      My restorations page www.oliviaspennyarcade.com

    4. #24
      Johns-Arcade's Avatar
      Johns-Arcade is offline My quest awaits!
      is a Homepin authorised parts
      stockist
       
      Meh
       

      Join Date
      Apr 2006
      State
      SE Queensland
      Posts
      3,872
      Mentioned
      161 Post(s)
      Quoted
      779 Post(s)
      Australia
      You'd do better selling the games to the venue, as a few machines will not offset the cost to operate them. You could then offer to maintain them for a fee.

      Regards,

      Johns-Arcade.

    5. #25
      Lou's Avatar
      Lou is offline
      This user has no status.
       
      ----
       

      Join Date
      Sep 2011
      State
      victoria
      Posts
      1,828
      Mentioned
      46 Post(s)
      Quoted
      572 Post(s)
      Australia
      Quote Originally Posted by jason1 View Post
      No one is denying the PPSA part @Lou and is good information to share, thank you

      But I Still dont get the point your trying to make with the insurance aspect of not needing to protect your self.

      I dont know who is at liable on your hypothetical. might be leaning towards the venue for the carpet causing the trip?. I could be wrong so id feel better about being insured.

      there are plenty of insurance policies offered by many insurers who offer cover for vending machines and operators, and in the grand scheme of things isnt that expensive.
      @jason1 i do pay about 10k a year on insurance and yes i got public liability because i do hire arcade machines and for insurance purposes every machine has to be nominated like x amount of daytona , x amount pinball and so on
      arcade insurance is not common among insurance companies and you need to use a broker to broker a deal with them, my point is there is a thin line about public liability on one item in a place that already has public liability and according to PPSR
      you technically leasing the machine , you can ask 10 different people on this matter and get 10 different answers on the subject
      i don't know anyone that has tested this in court and opinions very a lot but the days of joe blog operating 3-4 arcade machines to make some extra cash are long gone because of all the costs involved

    6. #26
      ocyen's Avatar
      ocyen is offline
      This user has no status.
       
      ----
       

      Join Date
      Mar 2014
      State
      Sydney, NSW
      Posts
      874
      Mentioned
      33 Post(s)
      Quoted
      300 Post(s)
      Australia
      Every few months I go through a cycle whereby I think it would be awesome to put one of my machines out on site and see the public play and enjoy it. It gives me a thrill to think that I'm giving back to pinball in some small way and introducing new people to pinball.

      Then I invariably stumble on a thread like this which pulls me back to reality and proves that it really isn't worth the stress or expense. No wonder sited pinball is dead.

    7. #27
      Autosteve is offline
      This user has no status.
       
      ----
       

      Join Date
      Dec 2016
      State
      Barden Ridge NSW
      Posts
      1,188
      Mentioned
      41 Post(s)
      Quoted
      438 Post(s)
      Australia
      Quote Originally Posted by ocyen View Post
      Every few months I go through a cycle whereby I think it would be awesome to put one of my machines out on site and see the public play and enjoy it. It gives me a thrill to think that I'm giving back to pinball in some small way and introducing new people to pinball.

      Then I invariably stumble on a thread like this which pulls me back to reality and proves that it really isn't worth the stress or expense. No wonder sited pinball is dead.
      I wouldn't give up on the idea mate, simply go about it on a smaller scale and a little less obvious.

      At about 16 years old, two of my mates and I owned a Big Brave and a Wild Life. A grand total of $200 worth of investment then but still in today's money, a bit to loose.

      We walked into a local park's kids football clubhouse, my mate's neighbour was the president of the club and simply asked could we put our pinballs in and we split 50/50 the cash the machines make every week.

      He took the idea to the club and they figured any money they made with there share, it would go to the football club for equipment, etc.

      The club house was only open weekday afternoons and Saturdays when the kids were either training or playing match games on the Saturday.

      The machines were only 20c a 5 ball game and set up exactly as they would have been on the street when they were current 10 years earlier.

      Those machines were there for about a year and once a week we would go around and clear the cash with the president. We only got about $40-60 total a week but you look at that and figure using today's figures. It was nice money especially for a couple of teenagers getting $2 a week pocket money.

      The machines were never damaged or broken into, probably because the club would loose out as well I guess and there was always someone of authority there when the club house was opened.

      I'd steer well clear of pubs and places exposed to the big public but something a little less obvious like the setup we had may let you "stick your foot in the water".

      Maybe the local milk bar might be interested especially if you take in a couple of pictures of that venue and it's popularity at Penshurst that was on here a couple of weeks ago.

      Just remember in NSW you will need to "tag and test" your machines. A kid getting killed in a little kiddies ride in a shopping center from electrocution several years ago made that mandatory for all machines powered by electricity that the public can come in contact with.

    Page 3 of 3 FirstFirst 123

    Thread Information

    Users Browsing this Thread

    There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

    Tags for this Thread

    Posting Permissions

    • You may not post new threads
    • You may not post replies
    • You may not post attachments
    • You may not edit your posts
    •