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Stern Code or Design makes a pinball??


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I guess they figure those playfield layouts worked well for Addam's Family, Terminator 2 by Williams Bally. Why not combined those two machine's playfields and we should have a winner?.

 

Well no, you can't simply rehash and re-colour, put on a new name and expect no one to notice especially when your prices keeps going up.

 

Come on Stern, make something different aye.

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I've never got as much into stern simply because I thought they were all the same. After looking into the rules, I realise I could not have been more wrong. The depth of some of these things is amazing... but they forget one thing. Sometimes when I play pinball I'm not even shooting for specific things - it's almost a means of distraction while I think. I just watch the ball and keep it from going down the middle. I enjoy the visual aspect of watching the ball do cool stuff, watching it go up ramps, watching magnets grab them etc.

This is why I couldn't have a collection of stern games. There simply isn't enough variation in the design. The hobbit and WOZ and Dialed In are three great examples of excellent variation. Each one is a different experience no matter which way you cut it. They experiment with widebodies, which I always thought Bally/Williams didn't do enough of.

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Reminds me a lot of the similarities between Lethal Weapon 3 and Terminator 2. But at least they were from different manufacturers. I tend to agree with the article; new blood is always a good thing in design.
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There is only so much that can be done with limited real estate

Yes the typical 6+ shot fan layout with an orbit is the most practical layout to date.

It does work

 

Funny reading pinsiders crying about sparse pf on Star wars, its sparse because it works ! why corrupt the flow of the game.

I think SR's Star wars will have some nice surprises and be a top 10

 

Back on topic, combination of both layout and code make a game

yes there has to be that element to bring the player back

For me its Challenge, Innuendo and Wit :D

There are many classic Bally/Williams examples from the 80's-90's

 

What truly makes a classic is getting the complete package

The pinball grail

The designers and support team are well aware of what is required for a home run.

Putting it together is the challenge.

 

There is a great deal more involved than just design and code

 

Im just so happy that pinball is still alive !

 

Rock on Silver Ball !

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Come on Stern, make something different aye.

 

They did. Ghostbusters is really quite different from the AC/DC, Star Trek, and Spiderman layouts.

 

Whether you consider the GB design a success is a different matter… :)

 

Michi.

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Yes, we can have the same playfield layout / shots, as rules will make it a different game but it is BETTER to have a different / unique playfield with different rules too .. Stern is being lazy & cheap as usual (& risk aversive)

 

Look at Alien - its got a new playfield layout

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GB is a great design and coded game!! Minor tweaks make it better - higher side rails and only if you could bring the flippers closer together [emoji6]

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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Look at AC/DC very basic fan layout. Then add Lymans genius behind that layout and damn you've got a masterpiece! That game is a work of art code wise. Lyman pulled all the strings, hit the drums and belted out the cords to make that game what it is! Lyman did the same with MM, Iron Man (that basic as all get out!), TWD and more. So the layout has to shoot well but if it shoots well and has boring code then you're in trouble. But you can have a boring layout with amazing code and you've got a great game on your hands.
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Stern Code or Design makes a pinball??

 

There is only so much that can be done with limited real estate

 

 

That's where I disagree.

 

I think it is more of a business decision that limited possibilities.

 

Look at how long it takes for original designs vs rehashed. It just makes sense to reuse than create from scratch.

 

I remember reading an article ( http://backglass.org/williams/tlpdohw/expo2016/ )about Harry Williams and someone rediscovered 60 or so unused playfield designs in a filing cabinet.

 

http://backglass.org/williams/tlpdohw/expo2016/slide22.jpg

 

http://backglass.org/williams/tlpdohw/expo2016/slide23.jpg

 

Would you say there are 100 stern designs? These Williams ones were only for EM style playfields too! No ramps, subways, magnets,vuks etc.

 

Throw in these extra dimensions plus raised and lower playfields and I think we have scope for far more designs that what currently exists.

 

To throw in a little more trivia here is a pic of Richie and Harry.

 

http://backglass.org/williams/tlpdohw/expo2016/slide28.jpg

 

"Steve considers him his mentor from when Steve started at Williams in the late 70s".

 

You would have hoped that some of this design practices would have rubbed off on him and I'd like to think it was time and money constrains that result in stern pf's becoming more generic between models.

 

Edit: also if code is king then the last thing stern would want is for people to be easily writing their own code for

machines. Imagine repositories of varying code for the same games. Why would you need more than a couple of machines? Just upload new code!

 

Remember, stern are in the manufacturing business not the software business. Their primary goal is to shift boxes.

You don't sell more boxes by having customers keep the same box but change how it plays.

 

When a customer becomes bored of a machine you want them to buy a new one not download a different rule set.

 

Perhaps that is an untapped market. Paid Software code updates [emoji385]

 

Want expanded code with 5 wizard modes? [emoji383]

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GB is a great design and coded game!! Minor tweaks make it better - higher side rails and only if you could bring the flippers closer together [emoji6]

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

I have heard the complete opposite about the GB code from a resident AA pinball fanatic. I will see if he wants to post up his opinion :)

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I remember reading an article ( http://backglass.org/williams/tlpdohw/expo2016/ )about Harry Williams and someone rediscovered 60 or so unused playfield designs in a filing cabinet.

 

It's interesting that almost all of these designs are symmetric. And, come to think of it, most (if not all) old machines were too. (Off-hand, I can't remember a wood rail that is asymmetric.)

 

Anyone know when asymmetric designs started to come into vogue? I know that, by the early seventies, there were getting more common.

 

Michi.

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That's where I disagree.

 

I think it is more of a business decision that limited possibilities.

 

Look at how long it takes for original designs vs rehashed. It just makes sense to reuse than create from scratch.

 

I remember reading an article ( http://backglass.org/williams/tlpdohw/expo2016/ )about Harry Williams and someone rediscovered 60 or so unused playfield designs in a filing cabinet.

 

http://backglass.org/williams/tlpdohw/expo2016/slide22.jpg

 

http://backglass.org/williams/tlpdohw/expo2016/slide23.jpg

 

Would you say there are 100 stern designs? These Williams ones were only for EM style playfields too! No ramps, subways, magnets,vuks etc.

 

Throw in these extra dimensions plus raised and lower playfields and I think we have scope for far more designs that what currently exists.

 

To throw in a little more trivia here is a pic of Richie and Harry.

 

http://backglass.org/williams/tlpdohw/expo2016/slide28.jpg

 

"Steve considers him his mentor from when Steve started at Williams in the late 70s".

 

You would have hoped that some of this design practices would have rubbed off on him and I'd like to think it was time and money constrains that result in stern pf's becoming more generic between models.

 

Edit: also if code is king then the last thing stern would want is for people to be easily writing their own code for

machines. Imagine repositories of varying code for the same games. Why would you need more than a couple of machines? Just upload new code!

 

Remember, stern are in the manufacturing business not the software business. Their primary goal is to shift boxes.

You don't sell more boxes by having customers keep the same box but change how it plays.

 

When a customer becomes bored of a machine you want them to buy a new one not download a different rule set.

 

Perhaps that is an untapped market. Paid Software code updates [emoji385]

 

Want expanded code with 5 wizard modes? [emoji383]

 

Really good read. Thanks for posting!

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Funny. I thought sterns played the same. though didn't realise they were re-skining.

 

Gb is pretty cool maybe that will be re-skinned to something else 2018/19.

 

 

 

 

Sent from my ALE-L02 using Tapatalk

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Funny. I thought sterns played the same. though didn't realise they were re-skining.

 

Gb is pretty cool maybe that will be re-skinned to something else 2018/19.

 

 

 

 

Sent from my ALE-L02 using Tapatalk

 

I was led to believe Batman66 was a "reskin" of dark knight. Was the pf layout an exact duplicate or were people just referencing the crane toy?

 

Is "reskin" even a term in the pinball world? I only used it as I was used to the term from fps games (weapons that are visually different but have the same underlying damage, features etc).

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Reskin is a fps term I was being facetious.

 

I have really noticed with bf1 and battle front. I used to enjoy battlefield but with the reskining of dice games I find them pretty boring now!!

 

This is my point when I play sterns I feel liked I already played them before the feel of the game is the same. its just a case learning the code or following the lights

 

Sent from my ALE-L02 using Tapatalk

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Give me almost any Stern over the Hobbit any day (just my opinion if you love it that's cool too). The hobbit really just isn't for me. It doesn't give me any excitement and I couldn't give a damn about the 400 modes in it that feel exactly the same and it takes forever (like all Kiefer games) to get anything really started (and yes I've said that before). The Hobbit gets a little frustrating for me because you hit a ramp and then a troll or spider pops up and just gets in the way of your next shot. MM and to a lesser extent xmen did a fantastic job of using their pop up toys during gameplay to make it feel like something you've got to do to progress rather than (what it felt like to me) a hinderance to do something else. WOZ on the other hand is a fine mesh of playfield design and code just with a theme that doesn't suit everyone.

 

People want something easy to follow where there's something for everyone. Look at ACDC for example nice simple fan layout shots feel nice and for a skilled player there's still plenty there and for the novice there's plenty there too with a cool gun you get to shoot straight away if you make the shot or a lower playfield to flip away on. I think that is why Stern kind of feel the same as they've got the layers in their games for everyone.. You can start a multiball rather quickly on the majority of their games.

 

Stern have 3 designers on their team Borg, Tredeau and Richie I sure as hell they go back to what they know and add the elements to games that they like and think work with their game. Richie makes flow games you don't see him doing much else. Tredeau makes games that are weird and different with wider flipper gaps and certainly not the same to shoot. Borg makes games with shots through the pops with some shots to kill.

 

I know I like my stern games and thankful that they're still around producing games

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There are some great layouts by stern that are quite different. walking dead, x men and GB.

 

I'm sorry can't get into acdc or sm. Spider-Man just bored me I played it on site got 60m ball 2 just walked off with credits on the machine.

 

I'm a steve richie fan but i'd hate to think that shot layout is going to be reused over and over again.

Edited by Fugus
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There are some great layouts by stern that are quite different. walking dead, x men and GB.

 

 

 

Sent from my ALE-L02 using Tapatalk

 

Not that I care but Xmen is a close flip to Tron. I think people complain about the crossbow being reused from Austin Powers in TWD (again not that I care) and yeah GB is certainly different and brutal

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