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Ipswich Comps


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The reason why I am writing this here is for players to understand what Ipswich is about.

Players are judging Ipswich only because of our single leagues,this league was done because I have seen player come out first time in a comp and get smacked down.We wanted something for new players to just see how they would go against more experienced players.Our single leagues but most players call our little leagues is all about a new player coming in and having fun,learn about machines,but the best part is how many times do you goto a comp and don't like the machines.Well you don't have to play all machines you would be amazed how many players only like one or two machines so they play them.Theses comps were never made to be worth big points.They come in at 32% of overall points,So the average approx 3 points,it would not be hard to turn that to 40% taking it approx 3.6 point,but a little more work and we can make it 60% which would make it 6 points,but we could also bring in another two machines and have three super league in a month which would have it at about 12 points.

The idea of only have it like this is so that new players can come in and have fun plus learn about machines.I am nit the best player here but I can play and it's nothing for me to do approx 6 to 10 hours a week to not only teach new player but experienced players as well.

If you play in the Single League you will outgrow them and then they step up into our super league or even better the come and play in Flipswitch.We have about a 50% return on new players because it's fun and we try and keep it that way.

With the training I do in store no matter who it is we don't charge for that.In Australia we need to find 40 new players a month to grow because what I have seen is after about 2 years a lot of players will cut down on comps due to the fact they don't have time I am on the same boat myself.

With the Queensland Championship we don't charge any extra but we let the players know we sell drinks in store and we use that money to pay our share.

We are in a unique position as all theses comps are played out of my shop so we always have a onsite scorer as well.

Even in our little leagues you still need to play your best to win,theses players earn there right to be in the final and they earn there points as well.If anyone was at Flipswitch yesterday will know why pinball out of our shop is a winner a man and his carer in a electric wheelchair now wants to play pinball and this is what it is about.

Maybe rather than judge what we are doing why not come up or come out and find out what we are doing to help grow this sport because without new players we have nothing.

 

 

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Corey I have edited your post, just changing to read better. cheers

 

The reason why I am writing this here is for players to understand what Ipswich is about.

Players are judging Ipswich only because of our single leagues

Judging versus observing – big difference. I observe when I look at ACS 2017 results I see skewed data (placings and number of comps – more on this later)

 

This league was done because I have seen player come out first time in a comp and get smacked down.

By "smacked down" do you mean beaten by a number of players and/or did they come last in a comp? Yes just like anything in life a first time can be daunting and we can lose players but I have found new players just enjoy it and want to get better and enjoy the challenge and its all about the points!

 

We wanted something for new players to just see how they would go against more experienced players.

Great, I'm on the same page here. A new player could join Flipswitch and head to the monthly Brisbane, Gold Coast, Or Coolongatta/Tweed monthly club meets. They would get to play against some very experienced players.

 

Little leagues is all about a new player coming in and having fun, learn about machines

Great, I agree again and it's great to see you offer this to new players. The part I don't agree with is a) making it a competition and b) when does a new player become an experienced player – more on this later to answer another of your statements.

 

But the best part is how many times do you go to a comp and don't like the machines. Well you don't have to play all machines you would be amazed how many players only like one or two machines so they play them.

I disagree – the whole idea of making yourself better at becoming a better pinball player is playing as many different games and playing against better players. The fact that you can choose which games you like to play makes it anti-competitive and more the reason to make the little league a non competitive, fun and learning experience.

 

These comps were never made to be worth big points. They come in at 32% of overall points The 3 points,it would not be hard to turn that to 40% taking it approx 3.6 point,but a little more work and we can make it 60% which would make it 6 points,but we could also bring in another two machines and have three super league in a month which would have it at about 12 points.

 

The point worth is subjective. My issue is you see 3 points as not worth big points – I disagree, 3 points for me would be fantastic and increase my IFPA rankings. BUT, the biggest issue I have is that those 3 points can be potentially multiplied by 2,3 or 4 times because the little league is based on a one pinball comp, (ie, a competition per game). This is evident with results from yourself, Michi, Warren and Gavin. You guys have earned over 10-12 as an end result for the day. I know this result isn’t for 1 day but running 6(?) competitions at once.

This is evident in the data which again shows skewness for number of games played and the results obtained. If you took out little league results you would get a better indicator.

Take example for Michi (you are at the top of the list), a good player and it's a great indicator. Take out the little league results for the points that are counted and you're left with 14 games not counted and 41 points deducted and he would be placed around the 15th player. Take out the Ipswich comps and you have a true indicator of standings (sorry I didn’t do any calculations) . I included taking out Flipswitch comps because as you have stated, a new member can gain their 5 games in one attendance which also skews points for Ipswich tournaments.

 

The idea of only have it like this is so that new players can come in and have fun plus learn about machines.

You have stated this for the 2nd time and I'll say it again too…great to learn and have fun but to gain IFPA points? It doesn't run true to the spirit of the ranking system

 

I am not the best player here but I can play and it's nothing for me to do approx 6 to 10 hours a week to not only teach new player but experienced players as well.

That is excellent work Corey. I take my hat off to you for the passion, effort and the drive to get new players – kudos and much respect in this regard.

 

If you play in the Single League you will outgrow them and then they step up into our super league or even better the come and play in Flipswitch.

Looks like that hasn’t worked. You have 4 players that are still playing single league as well as other leagues.

 

We have about a 50% return on new players because it's fun and we try and keep it that way.

With the training I do in store no matter who it is we don't charge for that. In Australia we need to find 40 new players a month to grow because what I have seen is after about 2 years a lot of players will cut down on comps due to the fact they don't have time I am on the same boat myself.

There are a lot of us in the same boat and we do have to pick and choose (great to have so many choices in QLD!) In any competitive hobby or sport we have to make sacrifices – its all part of competing. Running single game comps is not the answer IMO when it makes a mockery of the ranking system – IMO.

 

With the Queensland Championship we don't charge any extra but we let the players know we sell drinks in store and we use that money to pay our share.

We are in a unique position as all these comps are played out of my shop so we always have a onsite scorer as well.

No problems there very lucky and unique.

 

Even in our little leagues you still need to play your best to win, these players earn there right to be in the final and they earn there points as well.

Yes very true, comes back to when does a new player becomes a seasoned player – again there are 4 seasoned players that still play Little league – contradicts what you say this comp is about.

 

If anyone was at Flipswitch yesterday will know why pinball out of our shop is a winner a man and his carer in an electric wheelchair now wants to play pinball and this is what it is about.

Absolutely – 100% behind you there – still has no bearing on the Little league competitions - IMO

 

Maybe rather than judge what we are doing why not come up or come out and find out what we are doing to help grow this sport because without new players we have nothing.

I have come out and played at Ipswich, I have analysed, I have observed. Judging and observing are two different things. My observation is that "ACS 2017 has skewed results from the Ipswich club". I AM making a judgement that the Ipswich club is playing within the IFPA rules but not to the spirit of competitive pinball.

 

Corey, I think you do a great job for pinball and all credit to you. You run comps how you want as that is your Tournament Director privilege. People enjoy your shop playing pinball and is great for Ipswich community and other Queenslanders that visit. I've observed and stated only because of the effects it has on the Austrlian pinball competition scene.

 

Cheers

Jas

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The point worth is subjective. My issue is you see 3 points as not worth big points – I disagree, 3 points for me would be fantastic and increase my IFPA rankings. BUT, the biggest issue I have is that those 3 points can be potentially multiplied by 2,3 or 4 times because the little league is based on a one pinball comp, (ie, a competition per game). This is evident with results from yourself, Michi, Warren and Gavin. You guys have earned over 10-12 as an end result for the day. I know this result isn’t for 1 day but running 6(?) competitions at once.

 

Seeing that you are calling me out by name again, I feel I need to reply.

 

This is evident in the data which again shows skewness for number of games played and the results obtained. If you took out little league results you would get a better indicator.

Take example for Michi (you are at the top of the list), a good player and it's a great indicator. Take out the little league results for the points that are counted and you're left with 14 games not counted and 41 points deducted and he would be placed around the 15th player. Take out the Ipswich comps and you have a true indicator of standings (sorry I didn’t do any calculations) . I included taking out Flipswitch comps because as you have stated, a new member can gain their 5 games in one attendance which also skews points for Ipswich tournaments.

 

I'm not sure that really stacks up. I now need more than 2.3 points per event to make any improvement in the IFPA rankings at all. With the Little Leagues worth around 3 points on average (assuming I actually win!), if all I go by are points, the Little Leagues are no longer worth attending. But I still go. Why? Because I like playing pinball. Because I like hanging out with other guys. Because I like showing someone else the best strategy on a game. Because I'm proud when someone who didn't know what pinball was a year ago now can beat me in a tournament, and I showed him how to get a high score on that machine.

 

Don't you get it? I like playing pinball! I can't help the bloody points! And I couldn't care less about the bloody points. It's not exactly as if I could sell them or anything!

 

You have stated this for the 2nd time and I'll say it again too…great to learn and have fun but to gain IFPA points? It doesn't run true to the spirit of the ranking system

Where exactly is it that I can look up the "spirit of the ranking system"?

 

The entire ranking system is a joke. It grossly favours people with lots of time and money. It is grossly biased towards players in the US. Here in Australia, we have players every bit as good as the top US players. But those Australian players have no chance of ever making it into the top 50 in the world. Not because they don't play as well, but because we don't have the number of events they have in the US, and because the events we do have here are worth far less.

 

If I'm really rich and can afford to spend thousands of dollars to travel to the US every year, I might eventually break into the top tier. So what? All it would show is that I have lots of money and time to spend and that, ultimately, the rich people win. Anything new here?

 

We have about a 50% return on new players because it's fun and we try and keep it that way.

With the training I do in store no matter who it is we don't charge for that. In Australia we need to find 40 new players a month to grow because what I have seen is after about 2 years a lot of players will cut down on comps due to the fact they don't have time I am on the same boat myself.

There are a lot of us in the same boat and we do have to pick and choose (great to have so many choices in QLD!) In any competitive hobby or sport we have to make sacrifices – its all part of competing. Running single game comps is not the answer IMO when it makes a mockery of the ranking system – IMO.

 

Hmmm… I really have to question that point of view. These are official IFPA-sanctioned events. Corey doesn't make the rules; the IFPA does. If you feel that there is a problem with the rules, it might be more productive to take this up with the IFPA.

 

As I pointed out in my earlier post, the Little Leagues will (at most) get someone around ranking 1000. Thereafter, they are no longer interesting because there are not enough points to be earned by just playing the Little Leagues.

 

Jasen, what is your problem? That young people in their twenties might reach rank 1500 within 12 months of starting to play? Heaven forbid!

 

Even in our little leagues you still need to play your best to win, these players earn there right to be in the final and they earn there points as well.

Yes very true, comes back to when does a new player becomes a seasoned player – again there are 4 seasoned players that still play Little league – contradicts what you say this comp is about.

 

I assume that you are referring to myself here, as well as Gavin and Warren. I cannot do anything but re-state that I play pinball because I like it. If you want to take away from me all the points I gained at the Little Leagues, feel free, you are welcome. I will continue to play in the Little Leagues regardless. Because I like playing pinball.

 

Besides, you are free to compete in those Little Leagues yourself. If you think those points are that easy to get, I invite you to come along and grab some!

 

Maybe rather than judge what we are doing why not come up or come out and find out what we are doing to help grow this sport because without new players we have nothing.

I have come out and played at Ipswich, I have analysed, I have observed. Judging and observing are two different things. My observation is that "ACS 2017 has skewed results from the Ipswich club". I AM making a judgement that the Ipswich club is playing within the IFPA rules but not to the spirit of competitive pinball.

 

I completely agree that ACS has been skewed by the results from the Ipswich Club. This is an accurate statement, IMO. The problem here is not the Ipswich Club, it is the IFPA rules for determining who gets to play in the ACS. It is silly that I can play in the ACS after nine months of of playing competitively. My ACS ranking does not reflect my skill level. Not even close. But I don't make the rules. The IFPA does.

 

If you have a problem with the IFPA rules, please take this up with the IFPA. In an earlier post, I suggested to use the country ranking instead of the total points accumulated in a calendar year. I believe this would be a more sensible rule.

 

But, please, address the criticism to where it belongs, namely, with the IFPA. The criticism does not belong with the Little Leagues, which is a talent fostering program without equal in Australia.

 

Michi.

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Michi apologies for using you as an example.

 

No problem with anyone or any rules, nor criticisms - replying to Corey's post. We'll have to agree to disagree on our observations, judgements and criticisms.

Cheers

Jas

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Michi apologies for using you as an example.

 

No problem with anyone or any rules, nor criticisms - replying to Corey's post. We'll have to agree to disagree on our observations, judgements and criticisms.

 

Do you know how to spell "backpedalling"? I do.

 

Michi.

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Look if anyone has a problem with this format.

Contact me and find out what it was designed for.

If the only thing it affect is ACS I can live with that.

Or even better still why not come out and talk to the player who play in it,and find out why it works.

 

 

 

 

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If the only thing it affect is ACS I can live with that.

 

I think the current scoring system which takes all the points a player accumulates from 1st Jan to 31st Dec is naive. It rewards enthusiasm far too much, and skill far too little.

 

Why do it this way? Why not just take the Australian IFPA rankings at the end of the year and peel off the first 32 people who can attend? I think this would be fairer. After all, (I assume) the ACS is meant to be a competition of Australia's best pinball players, not of Australia's most active pinball players.

 

Michi.

 

PS: I contacted Josh with exactly that suggestion. If any of you feel the same, speak up. Things won't change unless a significant number of players raise their voice.

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After all, (I assume) the ACS is meant to be a competition of Australia's best pinball players, not of Australia's most active pinball players.

 

That is actually exactly what the ACS (or SCS in the USA) is for - to promote and motivate people to play more pinball. It was never meant to be a skill based competition. Josh has said this himself many times on podcasts. It was their way of catering to people who were upset that the IFPA were leaning more toward skill based ranking accuracy, rather than promoting pinball to new players. This is why it is open to 'abuse' by just playing as many competitions as possible to qualify.

 

The major pinball tournaments (and those in Australia being Batcave Masters, Brisbane Masters, Melbourne Matchplay, and a couple of others) are the skill based competitions. Hence the very strict qualification rules and schedules.

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That is actually exactly what the ACS (or SCS in the USA) is for - to promote and motivate people to play more pinball. It was never meant to be a skill based competition. Josh has said this himself many times on podcasts. It was their way of catering to people who were upset that the IFPA were leaning more toward skill based ranking accuracy, rather than promoting pinball to new players. This is why it is open to 'abuse' by just playing as many competitions as possible to qualify.

Ah, that's interesting, I had no idea. Thanks for that!

 

Well, in that case, I guess I can keep doing what I'm doing and not feel bad about being way higher on the list than my skill level suggests.

 

\The major pinball tournaments (and those in Australia being Batcave Masters, Brisbane Masters, Melbourne Matchplay, and a couple of others) are the skill based competitions. Hence the very strict qualification rules and schedules.

Right. These are a little harder to win than the the Little Leagues too :)

 

Michi.

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Well, in that case, I guess I can keep doing what I'm doing and not feel bad about being way higher on the list than my skill level suggests.

 

Yep, it's by design. For those that have the privilege of playing in hundreds of comps - go for it!

 

Personally I'm not a fan of the format, and more specifically the focus and promotion it seems to get above the majors. I've also made the case before that league's probably shouldn't count toward ACS qualification as it does skew the point total to an extreme. However, if the format is meant to promote pinball beyond the 'core' (which it is) then leagues are where it's at for sure so I can understand why it works the way it is working.

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