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Gottlieb Jack Open (EM) startup problem


thejudge

Question

I had a few minor things have been popping up on the Jacks Open, like some lights not working and some scoring issues, so I thought I would try and fix them. I had sorted out the lights and was working on the scoring problem when the pin would just not start up.

 

Not sure what I have done as I was only cleaning some switches not related to start up (I would think). Famous last words.

Now when I press the replay button nothing happens.

The 'S' relay should activate and that doesn't happen. I have checked the 'S' relay coil and it is fine.

I have checked all the fuses all OK and there are credits in the machine (on free play anyway).

I have manually activated the 'S' relay and it turns the score motor.

I have manually moved the score motor slightly, when powered off, and it cycles to the correct position when the pin is turned on.

I have added a score on the score reel, manually locked on the 'AX' relay then turned the pin on and it resets the scores and turns the score motor.

All the separates parts seem to be working its just not starting with the push of the replay button.

 

Any ideas as I'm not sure where to look now?

Edited by thejudge
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Hi Judge, Em's are great machines to play but if you muck around with the switches your in for a sad ride. Has the machine been wired for FREEPLAY or does it need a coin to post a credit? lets start here first. Can you please describe the method you use to clean the switch contacts please.
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Gottlieb Jack Open (EM) startup problem

 

Can you rotate the score wheels to something other than zero, then press start - assuming you've got a credit or have pressed closed credit switch to simulate a credit. Also does the ball count unit reset to one on startup? Really not much to wedge heads, doesn't have those pesky ax/bx relay of multiplayers

 

Edit shit they have ax it in the back box on jacks open. They are tricky, you need to go through startup sequence and work through each step in the start process

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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Hi Judge, Em's are great machines to play but if you muck around with the switches your in for a sad ride. Has the machine been wired for FREEPLAY or does it need a coin to post a credit? .

 

Freeplay

 

lets start here first. Can you please describe the method you use to clean the switch contacts please.

 

Just an emery board type file (not metal)

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Can you rotate the score wheels to something other than zero, then press start - assuming you've got a credit or have pressed closed credit switch to simulate a credit. Also does the ball count unit reset to one on startup?

 

As described above, I have already done what you are suggesting with no luck.

When I press the credit button nothing happens at all, no relay or anything activate. nothing

 

- - - Updated - - -

 

Did you use solvents, RP7 or any chemicals?

 

No, nothing but the emery file

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Gottlieb Jack Open (EM) startup problem

 

I'd be looking at the s relay as that drives the score reel. Pushing the start button completes the circuit to the s relay, engages it which starts the process - you've already sort of proven that it "works"

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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Great, can you remember what relays & motor unit switches you cleaned.

 

I cleaned the following relays/switches:

- 4D on the starter motor, this controls the pop bumper lights and I have to clean this one pretty regular.

- 4B #4 top rollover relay, this controls the scoring for the rollovers and lane lights

 

That's it.

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I cleaned the following relays/switches:

- 4D on the starter motor, this controls the pop bumper lights and I have to clean this one pretty regular.

- 4B #4 top rollover relay, this controls the scoring for the rollovers and lane lights

 

That's it.

Good, now were moving quicker, Did you adjust the gap on any of these switches without looking at the cam position first.

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I'd be looking at the s relay as that drives the score reel. Pushing the start button completes the circuit to the s relay, engages it which starts the process - you've already sort of proven that it "works"

 

I agree, as the score reel hasn't been activated yet, the problem seems to be getting the 'S' relay working first.

What else can affect it from working?

 

- - - Updated - - -

 

Good, now were moving quicker, Did you adjust the gap on any of these switches without looking at the cam position first.

 

No, I just cleaned, no adjustments.

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The thing sticking in my mind is if the game started before touching the motor switches, why would it just stop?

 

That's exactly what I don't understand, I didn't think that I touched anything that would stop it working unless it's unrelated to what I was doing? wishful thinking I think.

 

So next is there power to the relays?

 

Yes, I can manually activate the 'S' relay and it will turn the starter motor.

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Sometime the fuses in the base get loose & break contact. Can yo confirm no blown fuses & continuity across the fuse connections.

 

I have checked the fuses several times but not the continuity across the fuse connections. Let me go check that now.

 

So, do you just mean test the continuity of the fuse connector with the fuse in it?

Edited by thejudge
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hold relay will be your problem

 

Hi Tony, the hold relay coil looks pretty toasted but the DMM says its OK. Should the hold relay energise when the pin is turned on i.e. before the relay button is pushed. just wondering because nothing energises when the pin is turned on.

 

Just checking in my docs, looks like the hold relay is activated by the 'S' relay which isn't working.

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Start Button switch ?

 

Start button is fine.

I have checked it with the DMM and the circuit is open so the problem is elsewhere.

 

- - - Updated - - -

 

clean the contacts of this relay (with the power off). yep they are all toasty.

 

Yep, done that, no change.

It is starting to make more sense to me know, just have to find where the circuit is open.

I have the schematics so now to see if they help in isolating the problem :)

have to work out which relays/coils etc are in the circuit.

Edited by thejudge
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All fixed :041:

 

I worked my way through the schematics for the 'S' relay, starting with the anti-cheat switches and the motor 2B, all good.

After checking the motor 1C switches it all worked.

 

So, it wasn't anything that I did by the look of it as I didn't go anywhere near those switches.

Anyway a good learning experience and it didn't cost me anything to fix it.

I still have to fix my scoring issue but that can now wait for another day, play time :)

 

Thanks again for all those suggestions as well.

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