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It's Time To Build A Homebrew.


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Big question here regarding playfield width size. Wide body, Standard body or WPC SupaPin sized?

 

I'm leaning towards SupaPin size but interested in your thoughts.

 

The way I would think about it is that wider playfields create more side-to-side action. That might work really well for you seeing as each of your playfields will be fairly short in length (especially the upper playfields).

 

On a normal pin a standard width creates a faster up-and-down game with minimal side-to-side action. That can create a really fast and flowing game on a normal pin, but I can't imagine it would work well with multiple levels. But a wider body with more side to side shots might mean more time on the higher levels or more things to do on those short playfields.

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Standard unless the design has been made for wider.

 

Well I want to stick to a pinball glass that is easy to get but I think wider is better if I can use the width to great advantage so I'm thinking WPC SupaPin size.

I am also playing with the idea of two semi raised playfields, these are in addition to the upper level playfields but are only about 120mm wide. One down each side of the main lower playfield.

The left one similar to that used on Gottlieb's Centigrade 37 but semi raised like William's Indiana Jones rocking walkway.

The one on the right, it would be the elevating ramp used to hit the ball to the upper playfields so with these two semi raised playfields, I figure a fair bit of the lower playfield would be covered..( Remember me asking about glass playfields?) but still even glass is harder to see what is under it.

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The way I would think about it is that wider playfields create more side-to-side action. That might work really well for you seeing as each of your playfields will be fairly short in length (especially the upper playfields).

 

Yes I do want space between the upper playfields for this first machine layout.

 

On a normal pin a standard width creates a faster up-and-down game with minimal side-to-side action. That can create a really fast and flowing game on a normal pin, but I can't imagine it would work well with multiple levels. But a wider body with more side to side shots might mean more time on the higher levels or more things to do on those short playfields.

 

I'm trying to maintain that fast up and down game of the normal playfield but I want to utilize the space created on a wide body but try to get rid of the slow side to side action just about every wide body has.

 

As it is on widebody machines, the only real side to side fast shots on them are from the slingshots and the up down shots are by the flippers. I'm thinking flippers on the sides of the lower playfield but not active all the time, only when the ball comes back onto them from lanes similar to that used on William's Tri Zone "R" lane. The ball rolls over the lane rollover and this activated it's flipper for a "one shot" operation. One shot being you can not hold the flipper up, it gives you just one shot and then the flipper dies till triggered again using it's feeder lane.

This is to try and stop the dead zones most wide bodies have above the slingshots and allow me to create shots you must get around this area you can only get from these side playfield flippers.

 

This sideways flipper action up the top of the lower playfield, and maybe the upper playfields themselves, I have come up with this flipper mech that fires both ways depending on which flipper button you hit...

iIb99wW.jpg

 

This is my prototype mech that I'm waiting on springs for. No EOS because again it is a one shot operation triggered by a switch on it's feeder lane...

TGuI6R7.jpg

vJZYTkD.jpg

 

Another idea is flipper button powered slingshots. Not the lower playfield slingshots, ones elsewhere on the machine that again enable sideways shots...

Only a current part picture on this one as I haven't made them myself yet and I have to make them because the parts are no longer available.

rRiJpwo.jpg

 

I make the mechs myself to keep costs down and the amount of flipper mechs I intend on using would make the machine unviable to make and sell. The one shot operation is to keep costs down as well but also to stop every flipper or slingshot mech from operating unless required every time you use the flipper buttons.

 

So many playfield layouts for the various playfields I have come up with but one thing is for sure, they all use these mechs somewhere on them and the most expensive parts are always the base plates and the coils so I buy steel plate to make the base plates from steel plate, about $5 for 2 meters and the coils, I'm using one shot operation so any coil will do rather than more expensive flipper coils plus I think the one shot operation requires more skill.

 

What do you think?. Am I making this machine different enough from a normal pinball to create interest?

 

I figure I can't compete with the likes of Stern etc on visual appearance and complexity but I can do things they and others have never tried before.

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Sounds really interesting and different to play. If it looks fun to play, it should create a lot of interest. Got any sketches of playfield layout?

 

I imagine you would need to make it super obvious to players what is a controllable device and when it is active/inactive. If it doesn't look like a standard flipper and it only works sometimes, it might take a while for people to figure out they can control it. Maybe all the controllable devices are coloured the same way and they light up when active?

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  • 2 weeks later...

I have a simple question but unfortunately only someone with a pinball ball and model railways could answer I'm pretty sure.

 

What sized gauge track can a pinball roll on without the ball hitting the sleepers?.

 

I need some clearance between the bottom of the ball when the pinball ball is rolling on the rails.

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I have a simple question but unfortunately only someone with a pinball ball and model railways could answer I'm pretty sure.

 

What sized gauge track can a pinball roll on without the ball hitting the sleepers?.

 

I need some clearance between the bottom of the ball when the pinball ball is rolling on the rails.

 

I would think it would run on "N" Gauge no problem. But I think the ball would fly off if it was not a straight run. HO is the next size in Aus. The old tracks where quite high off the sleepers, but the now tracks arnt. I think the ball would bottom out on them. Mind you Its been 30 years since Ive mucked around my model railway...

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I would think it would run on "N" Gauge no problem. But I think the ball would fly off if it was not a straight run. HO is the next size in Aus. The old tracks where quite high off the sleepers, but the now tracks arnt. I think the ball would bottom out on them. Mind you Its been 30 years since Ive mucked around my model railway...

 

No railway theme ATM, it is about the advantages it could offer.

 

Uses less room than normal lanes with dividers so more lanes can be used in a much smaller space.

 

Tracks can be wired in to form the switch, one rail, through the ball and into the other lane instead of rollover switches.

 

Ball will roll faster on these rails than on a playfield surface.

 

Much easier to mount to the playfield than normal rails.

 

Could use two tracks facing each other with correct spacing to form a tube of rail for the ball to travel through without falling off.

 

Can be recessed into the playfield so there is no step and ball going from playfield to the tracks can be seamless.

 

Points can be modified to take the place of a normal gate without slowing the ball.

 

I'm thinking I will take out most of the sleepers on the track so it doesn't look like a rail track. The remaining sleepers will be there solely for mounting purposes and correct spacing.

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I wonder if you could use the same ideas as a rail gun to accelerate the ball. Probably needs too much current or something.

 

Yer, now that is thinking outside the square. No nothing planned like that I'm afraid. It is all about trying different things to lower the manufacturing costs, the production time or just better ways of doing things that may attract some attention.

 

This machine, or series of machines if I get my way, is all about trying new ideas. I can't compete with a proper pinball factory product but I can try to make a product that is cheaper to build, easy to change and possibly encourage the owners to have a go themselves at doing there own playfield layouts to make there own custom machines.

 

While everyone would like the latest factory machine, I'm sure there are many that would like a machine that is totally different to what is the normal but has a bit of there own design included to make what they have totally custom. This idea has worked for Harley Davidson and many of the car giants so I see no reason why it shouldn't work in the pinball market.

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  • 3 weeks later...

Been putting some thought into how to enable the higher playfields into this design as I want it to be a reward for good play you get to proceed to the higher playfields, not simply a shot to get up to them and come up with this.

 

All this series of Bally SS machines always seen to have super bonus point levels 20000, 40000 or 18000 and 36000 etc.

 

I'm thinking I will use these bonus points that enable each of the higher playfields.:)

 

Should be able to achieve this by putting an opto coupler in parallel with each of the super bonus point LEDs and the opto powers a gate or diverter out of the way to allow shots to that upper playfield/ playfields.

 

The bonuses were such a integrated part of this vintage machines gameplay and I think this idea will just add to there importance as now the bonus feature allows you to travel to the higher playfields.

 

Another issue I'm working on is because the upper playfields are stacked, I don't want any low hanging mechs as you will see them. The slingshots mainly so I'm designing up a slingshot mech much like a Bally linear slingshot design but without using the hard to get Bally parts they used in there original design but still be low profile.

 

Each of the upper playfields will have an end plate so you can't see the mechs and wiring under that playfield but these plates I don't want any lower than the flipper mechs.

 

These end plates on each upper playfield will incorporate the bonus lights. Something like the very top level playfield end plate with have the multiplier value....2X, 3X, 4X , 5X.

 

Next playfield down end plate....The super bonus value.....20000, 40000 etc

 

and the bonuses themselves etc.

 

Safes a lot of time not having to put in this many inserts into the main playfield, makes good use of these upper playfield end plates rather than just blank end plates and I think it will look much better on the multi playfield machines.

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Another feature I would like to use that disappeared in the early EM era is the "gobble ball" or the "gobble hole". Probably most would have no idea of what this was excluding @illawarra_steelers .

 

As I think the old ripoff lane each side of the modern pin has had it's day, I don't want to use it because it is loosing the ball not through a bad shot, just bad luck however, the gobble ball or gobble hole is a means of loosing the ball through a bad shot.

 

I'm thinking the ball starts with the gobble ball holes covered by a drop target so you need to hit it before the hole is exposed but once exposed, another misguided shot will enter and you will loose the ball.

 

A bad shot will cost you I like to think but taking this idea a bit further, I thinking these drop targets themselves can be controlled by these same super bonus points meaning at the first super bonus point not only can you enter the next playfield, but it exposes one of the gobble holes by dropping the protecting drop targets. The next super bonus level and another drop target drops exposing another gobble hole and so on.

 

This is a very deliberate way of increasing the difficulty of the machine as the game play time gets longer and a far more fairer way of the player loosing the ball after all, you lost the ball through your own bad shot placement.

 

I'm interested in your thoughts on this old idea with a bit of a twist.

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Another feature I would like to use that disappeared in the early EM era is the "gobble ball" or the "gobble hole". Probably most would have no idea of what this was excluding @illawarra_steelers .

 

As I think the old ripoff lane each side of the modern pin has had it's day, I don't want to use it because it is loosing the ball not through a bad shot, just bad luck however, the gobble ball or gobble hole is a means of loosing the ball through a bad shot.

 

I'm thinking the ball starts with the gobble ball holes covered by a drop target so you need to hit it before the hole is exposed but once exposed, another misguided shot will enter and you will loose the ball.

 

A bad shot will cost you I like to think but taking this idea a bit further, I thinking these drop targets themselves can be controlled by these same super bonus points meaning at the first super bonus point not only can you enter the next playfield, but it exposes one of the gobble holes by dropping the protecting drop targets. The next super bonus level and another drop target drops exposing another gobble hole and so on.

 

This is a very deliberate way of increasing the difficulty of the machine as the game play time gets longer and a far more fairer way of the player loosing the ball after all, you lost the ball through your own bad shot placement.

 

I'm interested in your thoughts on this old idea with a bit of a twist.

 

cool idea, and had never considered something like that

 

maybe to add a reason to drop the target with a target or path behind the drop target, imagine a Shadow ramp diverter that pans one way to direct the ball to a unique location super bonus or the other direction sends the ball to the gobble hole = risk / reward the diverter could pan one way for 5 seconds and then another way only after the drop is down - so needs a well timed shot to avoid the gobble hole

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A couple of ideas I'm looking at to get a bit more out of the old Bally board sets.

 

In the day, machines did need multiple coin inputs but these days you can do the same thing with just one coin input and a modern electronic coin mechanism for doing all the coin handling.

 

That leaves two coin inputs that aren't needed on the front door for coins any longer so I can use those for other purposes like awarding Specials. Something like a gate or some form of diverter that physically blocks the path to a target that awards a credit. The gate or diverter power used to open the path to the target also powers the Specials light to indicate the path is open for scoring a free game.

 

That leaves all the original Specials features that can be set to "novelty setting" via the dipswitches and what was originally a Specials award and a game can now be a high points award like 25,000 or 50,000, (depending on the game rules), which was the default award on these board sets when set to novelty mode.

 

Not many machines these days have multiple Specials like the old Ballys did so if I change the original Specials awards to high scores instead, it brings it more in line with what is common these days with only one or two ways to get Specials and also allows those original Specials features to be in far easier places to hit as the game won't be giving out to many free games.

 

Placement of features that awarded Specials on those old Bally games was critical but if they are simply awarding high points and not a free game, it will allow far easier placement of the parts.

 

Another feature a spare coin input could be used for is the "stepping free game feature". Only used on a few machines but I know myself, that feature did draw me in to play. It was on Silverball Mania and 8 Ball Deluxe and was a series of lights spelling out the word in the backglass and if you completed what was required, the next light would light in the series. You complete all the letters in the series and are awarded a free game.

 

I'm thinking this feature could be used and steps on every time someone looses the ball from the upper playfield. Somewhat of a reward for making it to the "top" playfield.

 

I've been trying to design a new low profile linear slingshot assembly for use on the upper playfields but using readily available parts rather than the original hard to get ones but I keep coming up with problems. Would be so much easier if the local pinball suppliers of parts would import some of the Bally SS stuff rather than mainly Williams/ Bally DMDs and modern Stern stuff but I guess the market dictates this.

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A day of research today. I went to a hobby shop that has model railway track and I took a pinball ball with me to see if it was possible to use track as an alternative to lanes and overhead rails for the ball to roll. I know some suggested what gauge but I really needed to see for myself exactly what clearance if any from the sleepers to the bottom of the ball and also to see just how good a pinball would roll on these tracks.

 

Well I can say N gauge model railway track works perfectly and because the ball only contacts on the inner edges of the rails, the pinball ball rolls incredibly well. There is also a clearance of about 2mm from the bottom of the ball to the sleepers. There are a few reasons I want to use this stuff...

 

Being fairly easy to get makes the price of this alternative much cheaper. I can get this stuff for about $5 for a 1 meter length. Idea is the ball rolls on this rail rather than needing individual lanes, lane dividers and rollover switches when used as a collection of lanes beside each other so no need for rollover switches, lane dividers or the need for cutting in individual rollover switch cutouts for each switch per lane should cut costs and production times dramatically. I can also put these rails very close together so something like 5 lanes will only take up the footprint of about 3 lanes with dividers making it ideal for the smaller playfields. Also using rails, that part of the playfield can now be made of glass or plastic or something else I am thinking of for the smaller playfields, chrome plated steel sheet over plywood.

 

The rails and the ball will form the switch. The ball, a metal ball, will allow power to travel from one rail to the other and replace the rollover switch and wireform or micro switch with a wireform in the switch matrix. The tracks I am looking at using are nickel plated steel so rust shouldn't be an issue here.

 

The other test I did was trying two pieces of rail, rails facing each other, and see how well the ball could travel through this "cage" as an alternative to the normal closed in steel rails for the ball to travel over the playfield or the plastic currently used. It did this job perfectly and I think looks a lot more discrete especially when most of the sleepers will be removed. Again, big saving there and if it should get damaged, easy for the owner to repair or replace.

 

I also went to my local steel supplier in the search for 7/16" round bar so I could make some correct sized plungers for making the new linear slingshot assemblies I have been working on. I could only get 12mm so I need to turn these down about 1/2mm before I can use them as plunger material.

 

The other steel part I was after was 40 X 40 X 3mm angle without a radius in the corner. Unfortunately they only have angle with the radius making it unsuitable because I need to mount a coil in there to make the linear slingshot assemblies. I may have to get some 3mm flat folded to get what I need.

 

You may ask why make these linear slingshot assemblies instead of just buying them?. Just the Bally parts themselves without a coil are about $60 per slingshot and the parts are hard to get. If I intend on making this a viable machine for others to buy, one assembly cannot cost me $60 and second hand parts are not an alternative or in big enough numbers anyway when each machine will probably use 4 of these assemblies. I have no choice but make them just like I make replica flipper assemblies for this machine and probably as I go on further, other replica coil assemblies.

 

@kress . You were right about mech prices. I doing my best to knock the cost down on them.;)

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though machining 12mm down is doable it will scale up and affect movement down the track in the sleeve, I would recommend getting bright mild steel 7/16" round bar and these guys do a custom lengths. eg 2 x 1000mm cut lengths is approx $12.50 + postage - then just a matter of cutting to length

 

https://www.edconsteel.com.au/buy-steel/mild-steel/round-bar-solid/bms-bright-mild-steel-0

 

 

also with making mech brackets, alot can be achieved in designing a plate that is laser cut with laser stitch cuts on the bend locations. Once bent a few spot welds and you have a very strong, functional and affordable bracket that you do not have to press bend which in Aus just the tooling is $25-50K

 

with the angle do you have access to a pedestal mill as then you could mill out a small part of the radius. Are you making the Fathom style linear sling bracket? If so I could draw up the laser file for bending if you need a hand.

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though machining 12mm down is doable it will scale up and affect movement down the track in the sleeve, I would recommend getting bright mild steel 7/16" round bar and these guys do a custom lengths. eg 2 x 1000mm cut lengths is approx $12.50 + postage - then just a matter of cutting to length

 

https://www.edconsteel.com.au/buy-steel/mild-steel/round-bar-solid/bms-bright-mild-steel-0

 

Cool, thanks for that. Exactly what I am after. I need plungers the same length as long coil Williams/ Bally flipper coils use only I need to tap a thread through the end right where the roll pin would normally go and think using one of those factory plungers may break one of the fingers over time.

 

also with making mech brackets, alot can be achieved in designing a plate that is laser cut with laser stitch cuts on the bend locations. Once bent a few spot welds and you have a very strong, functional and affordable bracket that you do not have to press bend which in Aus just the tooling is $25-50K

 

I could use two pieces of flat bar and weld them together using the TIG welder the wife bought me for Xmas. I asked for a TIG thinking it would come in handy for this and other projects however, now I'm looking at using just one piece of flatbar and mount everything off it. I think the factory used angle because the bolts they used have nuts on them, like a bumper coil mount, but if I change that to tapped threads in the flat bar like a flipper base plate, I should get away using just flatbar.

with the angle do you have access to a pedestal mill as then you could mill out a small part of the radius. Are you making the Fathom style linear sling bracket? If so I could draw up the laser file for bending if you need a hand.

 

I used to know a nice machinist that would let me use his equipment in his machine shop free of change if I helped him with some of his customer orders. Unfortunately he died. Sometimes I wish I was a machinist because I love that kind of work but then I wouldn't be building this pinball would I?. Yes it is a Fathom style slingshot bracket I am making. It needs to be a low profile design, no lower than a flipper assembly or you will see it that is why it will be similar to a linear design rather than a conventional style. One big problem I am trying to find an answer to is the coil back stop bracket and the front coil mount. I need a heap of these things so making them seems the only way to go. I'm thinking I'll make a jig so I can drill the holes precisely without needing to measure each one I make but again, it needs to be angle and it is an unequal angle material used. That may be a part that gets TIGed. At least it will never break I guess but time consuming.

 

You want to help, your very welcome. The whole idea is to build one machine and then farm a lot of the work out if other machines are required. I come to the conclusion a long time ago one man building machines while is achievable, if you have a team of guys all doing different parts, not only is it easier, other people bring in better ways of doing things better and more efficiently. Thanks for the reply.

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You want to help, your very welcome. The whole idea is to build one machine and then farm a lot of the work out if other machines are required. I come to the conclusion a long time ago one man building machines while is achievable, if you have a team of guys all doing different parts, not only is it easier, other people bring in better ways of doing things better and more efficiently. Thanks for the reply.

 

I think we are on similar paths so may pay to help each other, my background is mechanical engineering / fitter / machining - I will have a look at the Fathon sling shot mech and see what optional designs could be done and still keep the same dimensional stroke and model it up over the weekend

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Hopefully I got the mech right that you want to base the design off. Here is the original from the 80's.

 

 

I designed a concept that has the same footprint and same approx 18mm stroke. There are 2 plates that could be laser cut (larger one would be 3mm with tapped holes and smaller centre one would be about 2mm thick and welded in place. Then there are 2 angle brackets (15 x 30 x 3mm) that would need a bit of milling and drilling. Since the base plate is 3mm it will reduce the height of the kicker but you could either mill a recess in the playfield for the plate or do a custom kicker arm to gain the correct height. Hope this spurs on some ideas. The last image shows the base plate transparent so you can see the different parts better.

 

You could weld in the centre plate, and bolt the other 2 so you can fit parts. The base plate mounting holes centres to the playfield are slightly different to the 80's design.

2137018836_assemblyrest.png.5cf7acb05bb2cfe6073a0e68406eb57a.png

1221025287_assemblyactioned.png.0b7b14dd91bfdc550247957c3343d82a.png

1923376287_modernlinearsling(rest).png.e6acf0d43e01e86225840493e4cca0f3.png

69219240_modernlinearsling(actioned).png.e633864451ffe8089b38eb2518c45aa6.png

2072599293_transparentbaseplate.thumb.png.8e34359a8a06c4973fd297988e164b34.png

Edited by swinks
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  • 4 weeks later...

@swinks .I ended up simplifying the design massively. If I have to hand build these parts I want it relatively easy and these units will only be used on the upper playfields. Low profile solely for cosmetic reasons.

I'm just waiting on a 3/16" high tensile bolt, (that is the kicker arm replacement), and I'll put up a picture.

 

I do now have some questions for all that own a Bally SS that uses the inline drop targets to get the bonus multiplier feature.

 

When the machine is in play, what happens if you knock the second, third or fourth target down while the first target is still up and hasn't been scored?.

 

Does it award that target's multiplier like going straight to 3 or 5 times or does it do nothing, no score or multiplier?

 

I'm pretty sure when I tested this on my Black Pyramid, that isn't stored here, it did nothing. No score or multiplier as if the machine knew the first target hadn't been scored yet.

 

If it doesn't score, if you knock down the first target does it then go straight to 3 or 5 times or just stay at 2 times or something totally different?.

 

I'm just trying to work out exactly how much logic is in this feature's software. I'm thinking I will not use an inline bank and use separate drop target banks as in one bank gives you 2 times, another bank gives you 3 times and a last bank gives you 5 times multiplier. What I don't want is if you knock down just the 5 times bank, you jump straight to 5 times etc.

 

The target banks will be Williams SS units that have the targets down loop and I will use this loop to reset a completely knocked down bank. They also have a totally separate score circuit per target and I will use that as the scoring circuit.

 

Thanks in advance.

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@swinks .I ended up simplifying the design massively. If I have to hand build these parts I want it relatively easy and these units will only be used on the upper playfields. Low profile solely for cosmetic reasons.

I'm just waiting on a 3/16" high tensile bolt, (that is the kicker arm replacement), and I'll put up a picture.

 

I do now have some questions for all that own a Bally SS that uses the inline drop targets to get the bonus multiplier feature.

 

When the machine is in play, what happens if you knock the second, third or fourth target down while the first target is still up and hasn't been scored?.

 

Does it award that target's multiplier like going straight to 3 or 5 times or does it do nothing, no score or multiplier?

 

I'm pretty sure when I tested this on my Black Pyramid, that isn't stored here, it did nothing. No score or multiplier as if the machine knew the first target hadn't been scored yet.

 

If it doesn't score, if you knock down the first target does it then go straight to 3 or 5 times or just stay at 2 times or something totally different?.

 

I'm just trying to work out exactly how much logic is in this feature's software. I'm thinking I will not use an inline bank and use separate drop target banks as in one bank gives you 2 times, another bank gives you 3 times and a last bank gives you 5 times multiplier. What I don't want is if you knock down just the 5 times bank, you jump straight to 5 times etc.

 

The target banks will be Williams SS units that have the targets down loop and I will use this loop to reset a completely knocked down bank. They also have a totally separate score circuit per target and I will use that as the scoring circuit.

 

Thanks in advance.

 

I’m pretty sure that it doesn’t score, but I don’t own one anymore, well 8BD isn’t done yet so can’t test.

 

It’s a cool idea to use different banks, but software say on lost world, you hit C & D to lite 2x

C, D, E & F to lite 3x

add A & B to lite 5x

 

Hitting E & F 1st does nothing

Hitting A, B, E & F does nothing.

 

 

So with that sort of logic, what you talk about should work, but your inline switches would have to be linked for each bank , I think?

 

 

 

 

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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I’m pretty sure that it doesn’t score, but I don’t own one anymore, well 8BD isn’t done yet so can’t test.

 

It’s a cool idea to use different banks, but software say on lost world, you hit C & D to lite 2x

C, D, E & F to lite 3x

add A & B to lite 5x

 

Hitting E & F 1st does nothing

Hitting A, B, E & F does nothing.

 

 

So with that sort of logic, what you talk about should work, but your inline switches would have to be linked for each bank , I think?

 

Yer it's just a way to get a bit more out of the old software plus inline banks are harder to get than Williams SS banks plus I have 3 playfields I need to make exciting, maybe one bank per playfield?. Lower main bank gives you 2 times, middle bank scores 3 times and top playfield bank scores 5 times, maybe.

 

I'm also thinking these target banks are in front of the gobble ball features so if you knock the banks down in sequence, you score the multiplier. You get them wrong and you need to knock down all the targets on all the banks to get them all to reset to continue through the multiplier feature or else you have exposed the gooble ball and not scored the multiplier.

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@swinks .I ended up simplifying the design massively. If I have to hand build these parts I want it relatively easy and these units will only be used on the upper playfields. Low profile solely for cosmetic reasons.

I'm just waiting on a 3/16" high tensile bolt, (that is the kicker arm replacement), and I'll put up a picture.

 

I do now have some questions for all that own a Bally SS that uses the inline drop targets to get the bonus multiplier feature.

 

When the machine is in play, what happens if you knock the second, third or fourth target down while the first target is still up and hasn't been scored?.

 

Does it award that target's multiplier like going straight to 3 or 5 times or does it do nothing, no score or multiplier?

 

I'm pretty sure when I tested this on my Black Pyramid, that isn't stored here, it did nothing. No score or multiplier as if the machine knew the first target hadn't been scored yet.

 

If it doesn't score, if you knock down the first target does it then go straight to 3 or 5 times or just stay at 2 times or something totally different?.

 

I'm just trying to work out exactly how much logic is in this feature's software. I'm thinking I will not use an inline bank and use separate drop target banks as in one bank gives you 2 times, another bank gives you 3 times and a last bank gives you 5 times multiplier. What I don't want is if you knock down just the 5 times bank, you jump straight to 5 times etc.

 

The target banks will be Williams SS units that have the targets down loop and I will use this loop to reset a completely knocked down bank. They also have a totally separate score circuit per target and I will use that as the scoring circuit.

 

Thanks in advance.

 

Speaking from recent experience here ... Consider a Ballys rules as they appear in gameplay .

Inlines all need to be dropped to get to extraball say.

Further to this you cant pop the targets up and expect them to score until you collect extraball.

Once something is collected it stays collected theres no turning back.

You could pop up inlines before they are ready but the machine will pop them up again when its ready .

The programmes are rigid but that doesnt mean you cant work around them , its because their rigid that you can.

 

In the voyager ( paragon ) game the inlines have been replaced by four optos, these optos are activated by the

collection of the left and right loops.

What the interface does is this...

The loops score 1000 via an opto regardless.

The inline optos A-B-C-D all score 10 and add bonus as each inturn latch.

The saucer at the end of the inlines is not active until a-b-c-d is collected and will

just kick the ball out ( no sound no score ).The saucer in Voyager is dealt with as well.

If a-b-c-d is collected then the saucer is active.Collecting the saucer resets the optos ( careful with the timing of this is the same as the machines timing )

Rigid...

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Speaking from recent experience here ... Consider a Ballys rules as they appear in gameplay .

Inlines all need to be dropped to get to extraball say.

Further to this you cant pop the targets up and expect them to score until you collect extraball.

Once something is collected it stays collected theres no turning back.

You could pop up inlines before they are ready but the machine will pop them up again when its ready .

The programmes are rigid but that doesnt mean you cant work around them , its because their rigid that you can.

 

In the voyager ( paragon ) game the inlines have been replaced by four optos, these optos are activated by the

collection of the left and right loops.

What the interface does is this...

The loops score 1000 via an opto regardless.

The inline optos A-B-C-D all score 10 and add bonus as each inturn latch.

The saucer at the end of the inlines is not active until a-b-c-d is collected and will

just kick the ball out ( no sound no score ).The saucer in Voyager is dealt with as well.

If a-b-c-d is collected then the saucer is active.Collecting the saucer resets the optos ( careful with the timing of this is the same as the machines timing )

Rigid...

 

OK, for this I will refer to the targets as switches rather than targets because they are momentary normally open switches....

 

So am I right to say, if any switch other than the first or lowest is hit, it will not score?

 

Once the first switch has been made, the second will now score only if it is made again?

 

After the first switch is made, if the second switch has already been it will not automatically score the 2nd switch value as well until that 2nd switch is remade?.

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Bally uses normally open latching closed for drop targets.

Each target will score once when dropped regardless of order.

The programme doesn't actually care if B-C-D is opened after the inital close is logged and

if you raise the drops B-C-D then drop them again without A nothing further will count.

 

B-C-D has already been logged... But it will require the A to progress the feature ( extra , specs, etc )

and reset the targets to a section in the programme where they will score again.

 

In nut shell drops on a Bally-

Are a one shot scoring device.

Require progressive activation A>B>C>D ( Inlines )

Require A+B+C+D ( Target bank )

Edited by kress
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