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A guide to connecting your Windows PC to an SD CRT TV, PVM or Arcade Monitor


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  • 3 weeks later...

I had a thought about older APU's not specifically enumerated by the crt_emudriver compatbility lists, and will paste it here as well. This guy's APU works, by the way, though he has to use port 1 not port 0, as port 0 is his laptop screen :)

 

Calamity's guides show you can install crt_emudriver and use your current LCD. It's the VMM step that switches over to low resolutions. So you can give crt_emudriver a go first, no need for the cable until you can see the driver is working with that APU (if it does). And you can always switch back and install regular drivers after that, though ideally you want to install crt_emudriver over a fresh copy of windows.

 

In fact, to test your APU properly, you'll then go through the same steps as the guy in the post you linked. I don't have VMM in front of me right now, but i think you could use the guide for the 5000 series cards and up on the same website you linked to, BUT once the driver is installed and you're up to the VMM step, make sure to try this:

-Make sure to pick the arcade_15_31 monitor preset

-Copy the user_modes.ini file and call it what you want, edit it to make sure there's a mode in there called 640x480@60.0000 or whatever the format is, and not one for a 480 interlaced mode @30.0000. And also make sure there's modes like 320x240@60.0000. Then make sure to select this file as the list of modes to generate.

-Go through the VMM step of the guide steps of the guide to generate modes, and install them.

 

Now you should have some 15kHz modes installed, and some 31kHz modes so your LCD will still show up - i hope. Two things can go wrong, so pay attention. One, it doesn't work, and VMM can't install any 15kHZ modes - ok, you've lost nothing. Two, VMM switches to a weird mode your LCD can't handle and you can no longer boot into a visible desktop. I the latter case you might need to reinstall windows if you can't virtually get into the machine.

 

Hopefully Calamity can confirm that VMM would pick 640x480p as the default if you've generated it correctly. You could even try reducing the user modes file to two entries, one for 640x480@60.000 and one for 320x240@60.0000. Windows should always pick the larger, there.

 

If this works, you won't be able to test the 15kHz modes like 240p, but even installing them is a step further than the guy on your link got. And if they do install, i'd say it's safe to presume they work, everything else being equal - meaning i know nothing about your monitor or cable :)

 

EDIT: Remember that the above is only to test your APU using your LCD. To use a real 15kHz screen, at minimum you'll want to redo the VMM step from the guide and make sure you don't install anything over 15kHz (so, using the arcade_15 or generic_15 present, not the arcade_15_31 one). 480i is safe for an old SCART CRT, but 480p is not.

 

The other option is to just follow the crt_emudriver install guide as it's laid out, and if when you get to the VMM step the LCD goes out of range, you know it worked. Reinstall windows and work out the rest of your setup :)

Edited by buttersoft
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  • 3 months later...
  • 2 months later...

Well, I finally got around to connecting one of my old lowboys to the net, and downloaded Tekken 7 on Steam. The game runs in 800x600@50i quite happily, although my core2duo 8500 cpu and Radeon HD 6870 (using the crt_emudriver v2.0 16.2.1 non-GCN driver) aren't quite powerful enough to hit 60fps. I should probably try it with V-sync on.

 

I followed a guide to lower detail and resolution scale on Reddit to get more FPS. Overall it's actually pretty nice, though the game isn't designed around such a low res, and fine print is borderline unreadable. I do miss the Sanwa buttons that my arcade stick has, but i'm sure i'll get used to that :)

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75 ohm resistor questions

 

I am about to make use of some old ati cards, 4040 series, so i wont be able to use the edid thing but in order to force the pc to reognize the sd tv I want to use I need to use 75 ohm resistors according to this passage on the first post:

 

"For much older cards, well before the EDID emulation feature, you can force monitor detection on a Windows VGA port, if you need to. Plugging in your CRT will normally help older versions of Windows detect it - note that you don't need to turn it on, just plug it in. To force detection you place a 75R resistor between any colour(s) R/G/B and ground, called a signal termination for other reasons. Don't get that wrong or you'll hit the 5Volt line by mistake. Google is your friend. Note that this doesn't tell Windows the monitor is 15kHz only - you still have to do that with crt_emudriver, and carefully. "

 

 

 

 

I am tryin to use a board like this: btG1yIn.jpg.c083787416302b26efed78d2e8df289e.jpg

 

to take a vga cord from the pc which will then be split off to a jrok, I guess I would like to know how and where exactly to place the resistors inline in order to avoid frying anything on the tv.

 

Any help is appreciated, thanks.

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The resistors do not go in line, they go between a colour and ground. And you may not need them at all, but it's an option if you're running into problems. Assuming for the moment that the J-Rok board doesn't have 75R terminations of its own (and being first and foremost an arcade converter it probably won't) you may want to add them to stop Windows deciding there is no display connected, or that it's a new generic VGA display each time and going back to 31kHz. At least, in theory.

 

You only need a single 75R resistor between any colour line and ground. This means pin 1, 2 or 3, going to any ground line from a choice of pin 5, 6, 7, 8, or 10. Pin 9 is +5V, so leave it alone. All the ground lines are probably connected inside your PC, but you can meter this with that breakout you have.

 

However, terminating only one colour this way might affect its video level. You might be able to compensate by turning up that colour on the J-rok. You might actually get a better image by terminating all three colours, as PC/VGA video expects a 75R termination, but the J-Rok may not care. Play around with the above options and see what works best.

 

921762378_VGApinout.jpg.2874938ecbd2290b6f19a4ebb927943b.jpg

 

Also, come say hello and tell us about your project :)

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The resistors do not go in line, they go between a colour and ground. And you may not need them at all, but it's an option if you're running into problems. Assuming for the moment that the J-Rok board doesn't have 75R terminations of its own (and being first and foremost an arcade converter it probably won't) you may want to add them to stop Windows deciding there is no display connected, or that it's a new generic VGA display each time and going back to 31kHz. At least, in theory.

 

You only need a single 75R resistor between any colour line and ground. This means pin 1, 2 or 3, going to any ground line from a choice of pin 5, 6, 7, 8, or 10. Pin 9 is +5V, so leave it alone. All the ground lines are probably connected inside your PC, but you can meter this with that breakout you have.

 

However, terminating only one colour this way might affect its video level. You might be able to compensate by turning up that colour on the J-rok. You might actually get a better image by terminating all three colours, as PC/VGA video expects a 75R termination, but the J-Rok may not care. Play around with the above options and see what works best.

 

[ATTACH=CONFIG]129393[/ATTACH]

 

Also, come say hello and tell us about your project :)

 

Is it a bad thing that I have no idea how to go about wiring that up lol, when I said newbie that's exactly what I meant. I'm returning to school for electronics and inside of a year I would like to be able to pull this project off PLUS add scart/rgb to an rf only tv set here in the usa. In the meantime is there any books I should read to help a beginner like me?

 

Thanks again

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Is it a bad thing that I have no idea how to go about wiring that up lol, when I said newbie that's exactly what I meant. I'm returning to school for electronics and inside of a year I would like to be able to pull this project off PLUS add scart/rgb to an rf only tv set here in the usa. In the meantime is there any books I should read to help a beginner like me?

 

Well, it's not a good thing :) I can't recommend any books, sadly.

 

I did up a tiny diagram that is the same for R, G and B. (Use pins 1, 2 and 3). The termination resistors go at the end of the cable, right before they go into the J-rok. Remember though that the j-rok may have internal terminations - put a multimeter between each colour terminal and ground and see what value you get. A high reading means there effectively isn't a termination in place. Whether the termination resistors are needed depends on video performance/cables used. Don't commit to anything until you've tested things with no terminations, with a single termination, and with all three to see not only what looks best, but what windows decides it's going to do with/without them.

 

termination.jpg.7cfde270e43140cddec193227322c274.jpg

 

 

EDIT: remember, you may not even need the terminations for windows to work fine with your converter. I really only included that information as an edge case for older cards. Newer cards with EDID emulation are much easier to use.

Edited by buttersoft
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EDIT: remember, you may not even need the terminations for windows to work fine with your converter. I really only included that information as an edge case for older cards. Newer cards with EDID emulation are much easier to use.

 

So I got lucky and snagged a 5450 the other day. I have a microvision showwx pocket projector that is fed vga, what exactly would happen if i tried to treat it as a crt and force it into 240p? Would it explode?

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So I got lucky and snagged a 5450 the other day. I have a microvision showwx pocket projector that is fed vga, what exactly would happen if i tried to treat it as a crt and force it into 240p? Would it explode?

 

Will google tell you the specs? What horizontal sync range can the projector handle?

 

In general, projectors were more flexible than direct-view sets, but LCD was less flexible than CRT by its nature. And there was no such thing as a pocket CRT projector that i've ever heard of.

 

What a pocket LCD projector will do i have no idea. It might be capable of displaying or upscaling 240p RGBS, but i would guess it's not going to like the customised timings crt_emudriver is designed to allow through GroovyMAME. LCD's are good at protecting themselves from out-of-range signals, but this might be a case where to minimise cost and space they've been lazy with design. If I had to guess I'd say it won't work, but that it wouldn't hurt to try - but that's just a guess.

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The prodcut info sheet linked on that page says it takes a composite via RCA, component video from ipods (what?) along with a proprietary dock to use VGA input. Composite means it can handle 15kHz input, but that doesn't mean it will do so over VGA. Assuming for the moment that you can get a component signal into the device via RCA, or turn RCA into whatever plug(s) it does take, your best bet might be to get a VGA-to-Component transcoder (see the OP and then post #10 of this thread). I think that would work. Or you could try a VGA-to-composite adapter, which will lose picture quality. Added to which the projector itself is LCD, and no matter what you do it's going to mangle the image even further when displaying it.

 

The thing is, this is a total edge case. From what i can see it's a projector designed to be used with Ipods (and laptops if you buy the extra dock-adapter). It might work, assuming you can jump through the hoops above. But then again it might not. And if it does it might look so bad you want to tear your eyes out.

Edited by buttersoft
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  • 1 month later...

Was wondering if someone can help assist with the groovymame build I'm trying to do

 

Specs of build:

 

CPU Specs: Windows 7 64bit, 4gb ram, i5, ati 5450 via DMS-59 to VGA

Arcade interface: JPAC

MAME version: 0.196

Groovymame version: v0.196_017

CRT Emu Driver: CRT Emudriver 2.0 - beta 13

 

Not sure why I can't get it to sync properly from groovymame - looks like a lot more reading/research needs to occur (I thought I pretty much covered it all, but I'm missing something fundamental, I'm sure of it!)

 

Every time I load groovymame, it states "Switchres could not find a video mode that meets your specs"

 

http://i.imgur.com/jdwtEAwl.jpg

 

I'm able to get the signal working properly when it's on Arcade OSD

 

http://i.imgur.com/t6LcuL7l.jpg

 

I then set it to desktop mode

 

http://i.imgur.com/frHMDZxl.jpg

 

When the listing eventually shows up and I load the game, it just all gets scrambled (yes, I have to adjust my monitor, it's curved on the side waaaay too much - it's just a massive PITA as it's done from inside the chassis)

 

http://i.imgur.com/42K9fA5l.jpg

 

EDIT: don't mind my n00bness :D :D

 

It seems I didn't "Enable EDID emulation". I've now got it all enabled and working with "super resolutions"

 

Now I've got a few games working :D including some cave SH3 yoko games.

 

The game that made me fall in love with the arcades!

 

http://i.imgur.com/7TZk4PZl.jpg

 

Akai Katana

 

http://i.imgur.com/pY2jXfLl.jpg

 

Arguably the best SF of all time...

 

http://i.imgur.com/t0eg2wpl.jpg

 

And of course, the one of the biggest reasons we play on a CRT.... scanlines!!

 

http://i.imgur.com/Mvu4pYrl.jpg

 

Now I need to find me all the games I want and install a front end - most likely attract mode

Edited by mR_CaESaR
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Nice I just finished my groovymame build but on a windows xp 32bit so awesome now puts the Pandora's to shame lol being thrashing rival schools and street fighter ex2 plus :P. Come to think of it my monitor makes a noise and clicks when changing from 2d to 3d games is this normal? It's pretty loud just scared me is all.

 

Sent from my SM-G955F using Aussie Arcade mobile app

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Nice I just finished my groovymame build but on a windows xp 32bit so awesome now puts the Pandora's to shame lol being thrashing rival schools and street fighter ex2 plus :P.Aussie Arcade mobile app

 

Yeah it definitely does!! I'm not sure why I waited tbh :D :D

 

I'm thinking of scratching my RaspberryJamma for a vertical build too... I've still got about 2 or 3 ATI compatible cards on hand... but no other SFF PCs on hand..

 

The hardest part is to determine what games I want lol and find them..

 

I do have to fix my 2p though.. I'm not sure if I wired the JPAC incorrectly but 2player B4 and B6 doesn't work, and B5 registers as low kick in SF...

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Hmm I haven't tested my P2 was in a rush to play some ex lol I got one more card on the way to do vert on my Sega net city just need my monitor serviced whole screens got blue tint. I know what you mean with the games I remember a few when I was young just can't remember names lol ive being finding them one by one and adding them as I go. Im done with downloading premade setups.

 

Sent from my SM-G955F using Aussie Arcade mobile app

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Im done with downloading premade setups.

 

Same, i find them either bloated or missing enough pieces that i may as well set up something for myself. Took me a while to set everything up, and then unthrottle everything game by game to set up the best frame-delay possible on my PC. But totally worth it. Nothing like doing it yourself, you just have to learn it all one step at a time.

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  • 4 months later...

Anybody got a groovymame vertical setup?

 

I'm not really sure what I'm doing wrong.

 

I set it to generic 15khz and set it up so it loads to groovymame, but I end up with a squashed image..

 

f2d462b2d164c9c533f8d7ae1a65f95a.jpg

 

bbd2f69dfb290aaa5a0bbd4a48588b75.jpg

 

Any assistance would be awesome.

 

Edit:

 

Managed to get it to work in full screen, but can't get it to display the correct resolution, it won't do the auto switching like it does on my horizontal setup

 

8be13fc5482e19e5c2f04b2c13aa91a4.jpg

 

24c2aa98897809b5e13b582dd2a17a67.jpg

 

e37ba68262774088f363f3df99888e69.jpg

 

It's always displaying 640x480i. Whenever I try to install modes from the super res ini, it states rejected by driver

Edited by mR_CaESaR
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GroovyMAME might not know it's meant to rotate. Basically you set up the same way as a horizontal cab, leaving everything set as horizontal and no rotation, installing the horizontal resolutions you need (so a vertical game at 240x320 needs a 320x240 resoution installed, or a 2560x240 super one). Then, and only then, in mame.ini change the "orientation" variable, i think it is, from horizontal to rotate_l or rotate_r, depending. Your options are horizontal, vertical, rotate_l or rotate_r. Then if the aspect ratio is very stretched off the top and bottom (what, if the monitor was horizontal, would be the sides) in mame.ini again change the aspect ratio to 3:4 rather than 4:3.

 

This way works, though i can't seem to find any docs on mamedev. There might be a better way that involves setting up the monitor as vertical to begin with, but i use a rotating setup so i need the rotation option so horizontal games work as normal, but vertical games go vertical.

 

EDIT: you might want to use a vertical.ini file for the rotate option, i can't remember. Unless all your games are vertical in this case, then just use the mame.ini.

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What about the desktop? Can I rotate that in Windows and not screw anything up?

 

When you need to, yes. Otherwise, for the aforementioned rotation method to work in GM, no, you can't leave it that way. If you really need to have a potrait-orientation desktop, then you play with the steps above. So you, 1. tell VMM your monitor is vertical and 2. non-rotating (physically/desktop) then 3. install all your resolutions backwards (so, 240x2560 like that) and then 4. tell GM your monitor orientation is vertical. Or something like that, some combination of using/reversing those four options. I never had to figure it out, sorry.

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It seems like everything is working as expected!

 

What I did was deleted the mame.ini and setup a new VMMaker ini file.

 

Set VMMaker to 15khz generic horizontal, modelines from the super modes, set the groovymame exe location (didn't check the export settings to groovymame).

 

Generate modes and then installed.

 

I then generate a new mame.ini file and changed the orientation flag to vertical.

 

Finally, I rotated the desktop in Windows.

 

So here's the rotated desktop (although, I can't get the display lower than 640x480i)

 

a14c566b2626323bf2978525cf78417e.jpg

 

Attract mode in vertical mode...

 

9707998c7b992e9d2bdc10b05d645814.jpg

 

Scrolling through games... (obviously need to get art fixed up..)

 

925836df49c3fa3160b0313f50d0c7a3.jpg

 

Loading up a game.. And it shows 2560 x 240p as the switch res value.

77b931d9863779f1ad3af611c6df4348.jpg

 

ESP Ra De in 240p goodness!

 

99e9ec9d5bef6bdb154b773c5c70eb5f.jpg

 

43825025504c905e111c489b298efe89.jpg

 

And the reason I switched up from a pi setup... get some Naomi shmups in the setup!

 

d6b6092473980d379c664e515ef52e9f.jpg

 

73171ad9f690c853a754964078f0449b.jpg

 

Now that this is all working, I'll fix up the colours, the size of the screen and the curvature.

 

Happy days!

 

Sent from my SM-N950F using Tapatalk

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