Boots Posted December 12, 2016 Share Posted December 12, 2016 I am working on a Hankin MPU at the moment for a friend and I can't find any documentation on the MPU self test LED flashes. So far I have worked out that with either the 6802 or the roms or UC10 6821 missing you get a locked LED With the 5101 missing you get 1 flash, with it you get three flashes. Here comes the weird bit, with a known good 6821 installed at UC11 I get three flashes but with it removed I get four???? Could it be a bad socket shorting once UC11 is installed? If anyone has an explanation on the flashes that would help greatly. PS it's an FJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 Homepin Posted December 12, 2016 Share Posted December 12, 2016 Your user name should be changed - - - to "won't boots" :lol Sorry I can't help. I asked David Hankin a couple of times about this and he told me that all documentation had been thrown out long ago during one of their moves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 BIG Trev Posted December 13, 2016 Share Posted December 13, 2016 I'd like to know the answer to this too. It sounds like a job for some serious reverse engineering both software and hardware. Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 Boots Posted December 13, 2016 Author Share Posted December 13, 2016 I'd like to know the answer to this too. It sounds like a job for some serious reverse engineering both software and hardware. Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk It's just complete nonsense that removing an IC gets more flashes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 wiredoug Posted December 13, 2016 Share Posted December 13, 2016 It's just complete nonsense that removing an IC gets more flashes fairly random guess from a very bad schematic ... ive never worked on this board...perhaps code looking for cabinet test switch input or zero crossing? ( both look to be behind that pia) then doing more if it doesnt see them cos the pia isnt there Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 Boots Posted December 13, 2016 Author Share Posted December 13, 2016 fairly random guess from a very bad schematic ... ive never worked on this board...perhaps code looking for cabinet test switch input or zero crossing? ( both look to be behind that pia) then doing more if it doesnt see them cos the pia isnt there I did briefly think of something like that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 toads Posted December 13, 2016 Share Posted December 13, 2016 The sockets are a known to be pretty crappy. Been playing mine a fair bit lately I quite like the game Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 toads Posted December 13, 2016 Share Posted December 13, 2016 I am working on a Hankin MPU at the moment for a friend and I can't find any documentation on the MPU self test LED flashes. So far I have worked out that with either the 6802 or the roms or UC10 6821 missing you get a locked LED With the 5101 missing you get 1 flash, with it you get three flashes. Here comes the weird bit, with a known good 6821 installed at UC11 I get three flashes but with it removed I get four???? Could it be a bad socket shorting once UC11 is installed? If anyone has an explanation on the flashes that would help greatly. PS it's an FJ Might be of interest... http://www.aussiearcade.com/showthread.php/46625-Hankin-Shark-repair?highlight=Hankin+mpu Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 BIG Trev Posted December 13, 2016 Share Posted December 13, 2016 Hi Mike @Homepin is there any chance you could ask David who the programner was? I got it on the right post this time.😉 Cheers Trev Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 Boots Posted December 16, 2016 Author Share Posted December 16, 2016 OK so a small update. On the bench with 12v power supply (5 volts created on the MPU) I get four flashes with all socketed chips installed. I initially was still using the original sockets and with IC11 PIA 6821 out I was getting four flashes, in I was getting three flashes. All new sockets now and I get four flashes with IC11 installed. This is what I found so far: You need to start with only IC1, IC2, IC3, IC10 installed. IC1, IC2, IC3, IC10 need to be installed and good for the LED to start the initial flicker and get two flashes, if any of these are missing or no good the LED is locked on. IC4 gets the third & fourth flash. If you then install IC11 and the socket is no good, you will go back to three flashes down from four. With IC11 and it's socket good you get four flashes. None of this system makes sense to me as you get very little value in the form of diagnostic information from the flashes. I believe there are supposed to be six flashes, can any Hankin owners confirm this? I assume for the remaining flashes the MPU needs to be installed in the machine, I have tried connecting 24 volts to the MPU but I do not get any additional flashes or response. Next step, try it in the machine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 Gemini2544 Posted December 16, 2016 Share Posted December 16, 2016 Surely somebody in the AA family has a Hankin MPU service manual? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 Homepin Posted December 16, 2016 Share Posted December 16, 2016 Same as a Bally board you will need for the board to detect the zero crossing voltage before it completes the boot cycle so make sure that is making it to the right place through the resistors/diodes etc. - - - Updated - - - Surely somebody in the AA family has a Hankin MPU service manual? Not that I have been told. A. Hankin & Co lost a great deal of money with the pinball venture and they were keen to put it all behind them. When they moved to new premises everything was thrown out including hundreds of backglasses and much other stuff. It took the business several years to pay off the debt incurred directly because of manufacturing pinball so you can imagine they are not overly fussed about re-visiting the situation in any case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 toads Posted December 17, 2016 Share Posted December 17, 2016 I believe there are supposed to be six flashes, can any Hankin owners confirm this? 6 flashes. Video hot of the press. It's FJ too... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 Boots Posted December 17, 2016 Author Share Posted December 17, 2016 6 flashes. Video hot of the press. It's FJ too... Thanks for that What happens if you pull the fuse 24 volts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 toads Posted December 17, 2016 Share Posted December 17, 2016 Thanks for that What happens if you pull the fuse 24 volts? With F3 removed on the p/s board I get 3 flashes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 Boots Posted December 17, 2016 Author Share Posted December 17, 2016 With F3 removed on the p/s board I get 3 flashes Hmmm that's not exactly what I expected I am getting four flashes with no 24 volts and only 12v supply Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 Gemini2544 Posted December 17, 2016 Share Posted December 17, 2016 Not that I have been told. A. Hankin & Co lost a great deal of money with the pinball venture and they were keen to put it all behind them. When they moved to new premises everything was thrown out including hundreds of backglasses and much other stuff. It took the business several years to pay off the debt incurred directly because of manufacturing pinball so you can imagine they are not overly fussed about re-visiting the situation in any case. From a business point of view, Sad to believe that profit was thrown out with the belief that all was worthless...:( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 Homepin Posted December 17, 2016 Share Posted December 17, 2016 From a business point of view, Sad to believe that profit was thrown out with the belief that all was worthless...:( I can say that the times I have raised issues around the subject "over a beer or three" it has not been well received. I have taken to not mentioning it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 Gemini2544 Posted December 17, 2016 Share Posted December 17, 2016 I can say that the times I have raised issues around the subject "over a beer or three" it has not been well received. I have taken to not mentioning it. Tragic Mike Just Tragic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 Super Moderator GIBO Posted January 3, 2017 Super Moderator Share Posted January 3, 2017 Very helpful info,just resurrected an FJ MPU, bad sockets broken eprom legs bad 6802 so much easier to diagnose them when you can boot up on the bench Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 Autosteve Posted January 3, 2017 Share Posted January 3, 2017 Interesting, I never had anything to do with Hankins but I was under the impression they were a cheap copy of a Bally 17 or 35 MPU board. Please correct me if I am wrong. They do look nearly identical. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 Homepin Posted January 3, 2017 Share Posted January 3, 2017 Interesting, I never had anything to do with Hankins but I was under the impression they were a cheap copy of a Bally 17 or 35 MPU board. Please correct me if I am wrong. They do look nearly identical. Hankin MPU's are far from your implication that they were a "cheap copy" of a Bally board. In fact they used more modern components for their time than the Bally but this could have been down to the fact that by the time the Hankin boards were made, the Bally design had already been around a fairly long time. Yes, the layout and design of the electronics was overall "similar" but that's just "generic electronics". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 Boots Posted January 5, 2017 Author Share Posted January 5, 2017 With F3 removed on the p/s board I get 3 flashes Looks like you are on the money there Initially I was getting four flashes with IC11 PIA installed out of the machine I installed the board back in the machine and oops still four flashes. I thought back to the four flashes with no IC11 three flashes with and I was sure the hold up must be something to do with IC11. So I pulled IC11 out and sure enough pin20 was bent under and not in the socket. Once I rectified this away she went with 6 flashes and into attract mode. Just to confirm I pulled the 24V fuse and I got only three flashes. So to confirm this is the correct flash sequence: On the bench with 12v power supply (5 volts created on the MPU) I three flashes with all socketed chips installed. With IC11 PIA 6821 out I there should be four flashes, IC11 in only three flashes. You need to start with only IC1, IC2, IC3, IC10 installed. IC1, IC2, IC3, IC10 need to be installed and good for the LED to start the initial flicker and get two flashes, if any of these are missing or no good the LED is locked on. IC4 gets the third & fourth flash. If you then install IC11 you will go back to three flashes down from four. With the MPU installed in the machine you get six flashes, and similar to Bally you get a faint glow from the LED once completely booted. - - - Updated - - - So now I am working on the power supply The main power input connector was a real mess, someone had been digging around in it with a soldering iron. I repinned it with trifurcon pins before trying to start the machine and all voltages were good. The headers are the round pin style, not as much contact area as the square pin style so all these have been replaced. Still have to look at the fuse clips and someone has made a bit of a mess with the rectifier diodes. These are listed as 100V 6A - MR751 in the schematics but these are either hard to get or discontinued. Looking at RS I have found these: http://au.rs-online.com/web/p/rectifier-schottky-diodes/7969561/ Any reason I can't use these instead? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 Super Moderator GIBO Posted January 5, 2017 Super Moderator Share Posted January 5, 2017 No reason why you can't,I have just rebuilt a hankin PS and used those ones with no problems Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 toads Posted January 5, 2017 Share Posted January 5, 2017 Looks like you are on the money there Initially I was getting four flashes with IC11 PIA installed out of the machine I installed the board back in the machine and oops still four flashes. I thought back to the four flashes with no IC11 three flashes with and I was sure the hold up must be something to do with IC11. So I pulled IC11 out and sure enough pin20 was bent under and not in the socket. Once I rectified this away she went with 6 flashes and into attract mode. Just to confirm I pulled the 24V fuse and I got only three flashes. So to confirm this is the correct flash sequence: On the bench with 12v power supply (5 volts created on the MPU) I three flashes with all socketed chips installed. With IC11 PIA 6821 out I there should be four flashes, IC11 in only three flashes. You need to start with only IC1, IC2, IC3, IC10 installed. IC1, IC2, IC3, IC10 need to be installed and good for the LED to start the initial flicker and get two flashes, if any of these are missing or no good the LED is locked on. IC4 gets the third & fourth flash. If you then install IC11 you will go back to three flashes down from four. With the MPU installed in the machine you get six flashes, and similar to Bally you get a faint glow from the LED once completely booted. - - - Updated - - - So now I am working on the power supply The main power input connector was a real mess, someone had been digging around in it with a soldering iron. I repinned it with trifurcon pins before trying to start the machine and all voltages were good. The headers are the round pin style, not as much contact area as the square pin style so all these have been replaced. Still have to look at the fuse clips and someone has made a bit of a mess with the rectifier diodes. These are listed as 100V 6A - MR751 in the schematics but these are either hard to get or discontinued. Looking at RS I have found these: http://au.rs-online.com/web/p/rectifier-schottky-diodes/7969561/ Any reason I can't use these instead? I'm with GIBO, No reason not to use them:) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 cd9873 Posted June 19, 2017 Share Posted June 19, 2017 I also had a lot of issues with only four flashes on start up. Ultimately it ended up being the chip (IC3) which I bought from ministry of pinball in the Netherlands of all places which fixed most of my issues. It then proceeds to successfully start but not continue to run. I ended up changing all the main IC sockets as the score displays for fade out over 30 seconds and then the pinny would stop responding but have created another issue for myself, upon browsing my photos I realized I had not take a photo of the rear of the MPU board. I know there was several links there and recollect one which I put back but as now desperate if anyone has a Hankin ESB if they could take a photo of the rear of the MPU for me? Many thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Question
Boots
I am working on a Hankin MPU at the moment for a friend and I can't find any documentation on the MPU self test LED flashes.
So far I have worked out that with either the 6802 or the roms or UC10 6821 missing you get a locked LED
With the 5101 missing you get 1 flash, with it you get three flashes.
Here comes the weird bit, with a known good 6821 installed at UC11 I get three flashes but with it removed I get four????
Could it be a bad socket shorting once UC11 is installed?
If anyone has an explanation on the flashes that would help greatly.
PS it's an FJ
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