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The Poor Man's DOF (Tactile Feedback)


RustyCardores

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If you like this Drunken Idea, be sure to check out my 'Virtual Pinball Toppers' at http://www.aussiearcade.com/showthread.php/83000-Virtual-Pinball-Topper

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***NEWS ALERT - December 2017***

 

We have changed our name to SSF (Surround Sound Feedback)

 

We are now on Facebook with our very own Surround Sound Feedback Group

 

 

***** JULY 2017 - NEW DEVELOPMENT!*****

 

Thanks to the efforts of DJRobX, Surround Sound is NOW AVAILABLE in VPX 10.4 Beta and some new tables have already been released to make use of this new feature, while other tables are being recoded by myself to make use of surround sound. **These recoded tables are being released at the table author's discretion, so please do not ask me for copies. Ask them and put the pressure on ;) lol ....It's important that table authors see the demand for surround coded tables.

 

VPX Surround is a game changer for PMD, as we will now be able to apply directional sound & feedback to any position on a table! I have been Beta testing this new development with my current PMD system and it is TOTALLY AMAZEBALLS!!!!

 

Those (like me) with a current "2 Amp - 4 Exciter" PMD system will be able to use this feature, provided that their sound card supports surround sound. New users yet to implement the system, may wish to consider using a single 7.1 surround sound amp or DJRobX's layout, in place of the additional subs required for PMD Mk1 (non-surround)

 

A visual representation of Surround config options...

 

PMD Mk1 (pre surround sound). Also Compatible with PMD Mk2 Surround Sound.

attachment.php?attachmentid=114430&d=1502148337

 

PMD Mk2 Surround Sound - Single Amp (expensive)

attachment.php?attachmentid=114431&d=1502148360

 

PMD Mk2 Surround Sound - Multiple Amps with Windows bass management to singular subwoofer (cheaper & can still utilise PMD Mk1 components)

attachment.php?attachmentid=115382&d=1503988784

 

**EXCITER PLACEMENT: Place them on the cab side wall close to the flipper/playfield level. Keep them about 15cm from the rigid corners of the cab. Too close and you may lose some of the vibes as the cab wall rigidity increases.

 

My links to the parts used. Please note that the Jaycar components listed here are also available in the USA....

 

2 x Lepy 838 Amps https://www.aliexpress.com and search "Lepy 838"

4 (5 if you want one under the lockdown) x 70mm Exciters https://www.jaycar.com.au/70mm-flat-panel-exciter-speaker/p/AS3039

1 x Subwoofer https://www.jaycar.com.au/4-paper-cone-woofer-midrange/p/CW2190 (or https://www.jaycar.com.au/5-paper-cone-woofer-midrange/p/CW2192 if you have space and a little more $)

Plus some speaker wire and a bit of timber to mount the audio sub (bracket it off the back of the cab or run it across from both sides... whatever works in your cab)

 

See also: http://vpuniverse.com/forums/topic/3232-new-vpx-feature-surround-sound-output/

 

So that's the current state of affairs with PMD. The diagrams above are self explanatory and thanks to these, we have found that users now have a much better understanding of PMD and the simplicity of the system.

 

I will continue to update the above section with new developments as they arise.

 

From this point on, you will be reading the development thread (contains installation images). Please note that early recommendations and results contained in this thread may no longer apply to the above PMD Mk2.

 

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ORIGINAL DEVELOPMENT THREAD CONTINUES.....

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*PLEASE NOTE: This thread covers the evolution of Poor Man's DOF (Sound Driven Tactile Feedback), please read to the end, as the PMD found there is far more advanced and effective that what you will find early in this thread.

 

Also, I will update this section with users's PMD reviews as they come in, rather than having you hunt for them through the thread....

 

1: 18mm High Density MDF - "Could be better. Too dense for really good vibe transmission. Exciter placement is critical." (Reported by @RustyCardores)

2: 16 or 18mm Pine (custom lockdown bar) - "Brilliant! Transmits every vibe from the smallest ball rolling to the loudest bumper. Hands on the actual vibe plate is extremely effective." (Reported by @RustyCardores)

3: Plywood (23 year old Judge Dredd) - "Excellent! JayCar Amp and Exciters mounted on side under flipper buttons." (Reported by @Jed)

4: Plywood (original F-14 cab with Dayton Exciters) - "WHAT AN EFFECT ! You can feel every bump, droptarget, kicker, and such, it's just great !" (Reported by @Nemo)

5: 16mm MDF - "I'm using a 16mm MDF CAB and and didn't expect much feel, but F#%cking amaze balls it feels real." (Reported by @DalasJ)

 

And for those of you who couldn't be stuffed reading this thread and just want to jump right in boots 'n all, here is my personal shopping list for the parts needed... (Most parts listed are from Jaycar Australia, but our international readers should easily be able to find matching products from local suppliers. Google is your friend!)

 

2 x Lepy 838 Amps https://www.aliexpress.com and search "Lepy 838"

4 (5 if you want one under the lockdown) x 70mm Exciters https://www.jaycar.com.au/70mm-flat-panel-exciter-speaker/p/AS3039

1 x Subwoofer https://www.jaycar.com.au/4-paper-cone-woofer-midrange/p/CW2190 (or https://www.jaycar.com.au/5-paper-cone-woofer-midrange/p/CW2192 if you have space and a little more $)

Plus some speaker wire and a bit of timber to mount the audio sub (bracket it off the back of the cab or run it across from both sides... whatever works in your cab)

 

Change from $200... how much will depend on what stuff you have laying around. I have heaps of RCA leads/splitters/speaker wire/timber from projects over the years and that has allowed me to keep things around the $150-160 mark.

 

*** PMD Scripts Mods (Table sound & balance tweaks to suit PMD configured pinCabs) are available at http://vpinball.com/VPBdownloads/categories/pmd-sound-driven-tactile-feedback/

 

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Original Post:

 

Doing an update on my vPinCab's tactile feedback today and thought some of you may like to see it.

 

Not having the $$$$ (or the will) to venture down the full on DOF route, I use a Boombox vibration sound driver mounted under my custom lockbar. Until today, I had one driver mounted in the middle, but I have now moved it to the side under my left hand and added a second Boombox under my right (used a 2x splitter on the TV audio out). This of course increases the amount of feedback that I feel.

 

Mechanical sounds have been separated from music/voice in VP's audio options and these are supplied the playfield TV and then on to the Boomboxes.

 

Boombox units (aka X-Vibe3) can be found online (China) for as little as $20 free delivery and they can be installed in less than a minute. If you have been wanting feedback, but are like me and $$$ or motivation has stopped you installing DOF, then I can recommend this method as a cheap & easy alternative.

 

It really is quite effective.... I feel every bump of the ball, I feel the flippers activate, hell I even feel the ball rolling on the table... and I don't think DOF even goes that far does it?

 

The only issue I see for some, is the sound itself. Boomboxes will turn anything into a speaker, but the sound will vary with the material used. Mine sounds great on a timber lockbar, but stainless may sound different. So I wouldn't rule out the need of laminating a bit of ply under the stainless to adjust the sound. #experiment

 

Cheers

 

Rusty

 

Boom1.thumb.jpg.fe082dd8aefaca50eb3096a43d847ece.jpg

Boom2.thumb.jpg.8e01f4818d524f9dd8a5ccc0f3a72f31.jpg

PMD-DIagram-3_DJRobX.thumb.jpg.a272cbd10be5e551cea93fbf6fad25a6.jpg

Edited by RustyCardores
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Hi All

 

I am using the Lepai amps with the Jaycar exciters. I love it but I get a bit of hum through the exciters especially if I turn the volume on the amps up. I only get the hum when a table is loaded. I dont get any hum when testing the speakers with the sound card settings. I was just wondering if there was any consensus on volume settings in windows/ VP/ and on the amps themselves. Any other tips greatly appreciated

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guys, a question about sound levels.

 

I had to tear down my vpin totally and rebuild it after an interstate move. Ever since, my PMD levels are way low, and even turning up my PMD amp to max still doesn't make the feedback very strong.

 

checked levels of both the backglass TV output from within the tv menu, and the PC sound card output output and they are both at max.

 

At a bit of a loss as to why my levels are so low, if anyone has got any suggestions let me know !

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guys, a question about sound levels.

 

I had to tear down my vpin totally and rebuild it after an interstate move. Ever since, my PMD levels are way low, and even turning up my PMD amp to max still doesn't make the feedback very strong.

 

checked levels of both the backglass TV output from within the tv menu, and the PC sound card output output and they are both at max.

 

At a bit of a loss as to why my levels are so low, if anyone has got any suggestions let me know !

 

I don't have a solution, but I've always found that the sound levels for most tables aren't loud enough. When I had my table at Pinfest last year, the sound of the exciters wasn't able to be heard at all with the exception of a couple of tables.

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That's a weird one, especially if you had it all set up and it WAS all loud enough, which is what your post implies.

 

I'd be checking connections ie are they solid and are you using the same ones as before when it was working OK?

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That's a weird one, especially if you had it all set up and it WAS all loud enough, which is what your post implies.

 

I'd be checking connections ie are they solid and are you using the same ones as before when it was working OK?

Yeah, it's a head scratcher alright. Before I moved, I could turn the feedback up to ridiculous levels via the amp, so much it was too strong, and felt jarring through b my hands.

 

I think I'll have to just remove all the cables completely and redo it, as I can't find a software reason for it.

 

Sent from my SM-N9005 using Aussie Arcade mobile app

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I don't have a solution, but I've always found that the sound levels for most tables aren't loud enough. When I had my table at Pinfest last year, the sound of the exciters wasn't able to be heard at all with the exception of a couple of tables.

 

Have you checked the output levels of the headphone jack from the tv used for the backglass, ie the one that drives the mechanical playfield sounds/force feedback ?

 

also, check your PM's :)

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guys, a question about sound levels.

 

I had to tear down my vpin totally and rebuild it after an interstate move. Ever since, my PMD levels are way low, and even turning up my PMD amp to max still doesn't make the feedback very strong.

 

checked levels of both the backglass TV output from within the tv menu, and the PC sound card output output and they are both at max.

 

At a bit of a loss as to why my levels are so low, if anyone has got any suggestions let me know !

Just to close off this PMD low sound levels since a rebuild issue I posted about in case anyone else has a similar issue.

 

did some digging in the Playfield tv menus for sound, and found one setting I never knew about: 'Auto adjust sound levels' which had reverted to default (on) when I rebuilt the vpin. (It had sat idle for months after the move.) changed the setting to 'off' and I have full strong feedback in the exciter speakers again [emoji41]

 

Sent from my SM-N9005 using Aussie Arcade mobile app

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Hey guys, I am Ronald from Germany. This solution sounds interesting. You guys think this could bring rumble on a Xbox 360 controller on VPX?

 

I don't think this is the solution that you are looking for. The PMD or SSF (as it is now named) is a sound based feedback, it doesn't actually activate other devices.

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Hi all. I'm considering this setup for my widebody 18mm MDF cabinet. Is this a good setup or can anyone offer a better solution. Sorry for my noobness I've been trying to read up on everything but I'm sure there's a lot I'm missing so I'm after more experienced input. Alternatively from your point of view do you think this is overkill?

Thanks

Jason

 

 

1x Logitech Z333

2x TPA3116D2.1 (2.1 amp 2x50w +100w)

4x DAEX58FP

2x BST1

7.1 from motherboard

 

ssf.thumb.jpg.ebe9871283990f44323e912a50540354.jpg

 

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IMO one BST is overkill, let alone TWO of them! Also, they need a considerable amount of power from an amp to sufficiently drive them.

 

I'm in the process of "redesigning" my Tactile Feedback kits and will be introducing one kit which includes a pair of DAEX58 Exciters and a TT25-8 Mini Bass Shaker with a 2.1 Lepy Amp and that setup really thumps. Two of those kits along with your Logitech Z333 speakers would give you plenty of noise and vibration.

 

Drop me a line via my website if you're interested.

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IMO one BST is overkill, let alone TWO of them! Also, they need a considerable amount of power from an amp to sufficiently drive them.

 

I'm in the process of "redesigning" my Tactile Feedback kits and will be introducing one kit which includes a pair of DAEX58 Exciters and a TT25-8 Mini Bass Shaker with a 2.1 Lepy Amp and that setup really thumps. Two of those kits along with your Logitech Z333 speakers would give you plenty of noise and vibration.

 

Drop me a line via my website if you're interested.

 

let us know mate when you do, am keen to add more feedback to my setup

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