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Attention attendees of big IFPA pinball comps (Eg ACS, Batcave, Brisbane Masters)


Attention attendees of big IFPA pinball comps (Eg ACS, Batcave, Brisbane Masters)  

35 members have voted

  1. 1. Attention attendees of big IFPA pinball comps (Eg ACS, Batcave, Brisbane Masters)

    • Yes
      8
    • No
      18
    • I'd pay more than $20
      4
    • I'd pay less, perhaps $10
      5


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I'll be a stick in the mud and say that my preference is not a poll option.

 

I don't see the cash prizes in the above Tournaments as any kind of incentive for people to participate. I'd be very surprized to hear or read anyone honestly claiming that they're in it just for the cash.

 

How many of you have entered a pinny comp with the cash as your only goal?

 

With that in mind, I don't see why anyone would care if the cash prizes for each comp were cut by 10%, with the proceeds funneled in to a fair and responsible cause.

 

Most folk accept the fact that banking corporations legally and regularly steal a few bucks here and there of their money.

 

I can't honestly see any issue with pinny players using the same business practice, except for the stark differences that we know the proceeds go to some pinny players to help them reap what's sowed by the community.

 

As for chucking in a 'nominal tithe', sure, I'd gladly chuck in what I responsibly can at the time of any of the above events, as I'm sure plenty of others would too.

 

Cheers,

 

G

Edited by GEE
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Nope :)

 

My opinion is that the majority of OZ/NZ players are not going to US to compete even if they win a local comp so I don't want to pay for them to do so. Perfect example is ME I came second in a NZ comp and I played well, but I had some luck and ranked above my skill level IMO. If anyone paid for me to go to US they would be ripped off :)

 

Pinball collecting and travelling to compete is not a poor man's sport, I need to consider the costs of travelling and competing in our budget but don't want that to include sending RGR to the US ;D (although I beat the shit out of him last time ;)) love your work Richard :)

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Not happy to pay for top ranked but would be happy to pay for winner of ACS say, as that way there are a number of hopefuls who may not be able to accumulate the points to match their skill. If it's just top ranked, then it will only be four of five guys in the running at most. Just my thoughts.

 

 

[emoji298]️

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Not happy to pay for top ranked but would be happy to pay for winner of ACS say, as that way there are a number of hopefuls who may not be able to accumulate the points to match their skill. If it's just top ranked, then it will only be four of five guys in the running at most. Just my thoughts.

 

 

[emoji298]️

 

Thats not an option. Only the top 2 ranked players from a country are invited.

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Thats not an option. Only the top 2 ranked players from a country are invited.

 

I thought @RGR mentioned in the IFPA/Papa thread the other one - IFPA? was an open comp. If we don't have an option then it will be Richard, Peter or Rob (or Edy if he does a Johnny Farnham) No one will catch them by this time next year will they, if they keep playing as they are now? Not that these guys are not deserving of it - I'm just thinking what system would keep all the players happy and create some "hope" and somewhat of a "one day that could be me" mentality. (Not me[emoji52]).

 

 

[emoji298]️

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I thought @RGR mentioned in the IFPA/Papa thread the other one - IFPA? was an open comp. If we don't have an option then it will be Richard, Peter or Rob (or Edy if he does a Johnny Farnham) No one will catch them by this time next year will they, if they keep playing as they are now? Not that these guys are not deserving of it - I'm just thinking what system would keep all the players happy and create some "hope" and somewhat of a "one day that could be me" mentality. (Not me[emoji52]).

 

 

[emoji298]️

 

PAPA is an open event, IFPA is not.

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PAPA and Pinburg are also expensive events. The IFPA is $300 (or whatever it is at the time) and you're done.

 

There is a possibility of running a tournament where the top prize is a trip to PAPA or Pinburg - the prize pool for Batcave Masters was around $8000 from memory, there is more than enough money there provided there is demand from people to enter another $150 comp a year to send 1 or possibly 2 people to PAPA.

 

Its an option in any case.

 

In response to Greg - the reason for high prize money is to attract international players. We will never get people willing to fly in without big prizes on the line, its just the way it is. I know for locals to an event it isn't a draw, but for people travelling interstate or possibly internationally, the potential to win back your entry fee or better can be the difference between attending and not attending.

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I may be wrong and I am sure it will be pointed out to me but IFPA rankings arent necessarily a reflection of the best players in Australia.

The points are more of a reflection of your access to high value point tournaments. As an example the guys in SA dont have easy access to such events and as a consequence their ability to finish in the top 2 is a lot harder than someone that lives in Sydney.

If we want to pay for and send the best players from Australia a "fairer" system needs to be worked out. What this is I dont know but maybe as other have suggested along the lines of a grand slam winner.

Edited by rusty_dagger
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I may be wrong and I am sure it will be pointed out to me but IFPA rankings are necessarily a reflection of the best players in Australia.

The points are more of a reflection of your access to high value point tournaments. As an example the guys in SA dont have easy access to such events and as a consequence their ability to finish in the top 2 is a lot harder than someone that lives in Sydney.

If we want to pay for and send the best players from Australia a "fairer" system needs to be worked out. What this is I dont know but maybe as other have suggested along the lines of a grand slam winner.

 

As Paul has said, this is not possible. IFPA World Championship only accepts the 2 highest ranked Australian players.

 

PAPA on the other hand is an open event that anyone can attend. I would argue that IFPA is the more prestigious event simply because its a closed event (only the best players can attend).

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As Paul has said, this is not possible. IFPA World Championship only accepts the 2 highest ranked Australian players.

 

PAPA on the other hand is an open event that anyone can attend. I would argue that IFPA is the more prestigious event simply because its a closed event (only the best players can attend).

 

See I say its the other way around. Anyone can enter PAPA so even if you dont have access to IFPA points you can play. You may be the best in the world but choose not to play for IFPA points but can still enter PAPA.

Take ACS as an example. Only available to the top 32 ranked (even though entry works it way down the list) on IFPA. Restricted entry so may not be a reflection of the ability of those outside the top 32 just that they may not choose or have access to the points that other do.

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In my opinion (and i have not read all these comments - only the other thread discussion) - I would be supportive of making a small donation at each event, however having said that, one thing to keep in mind is that interstate travelers to these comps are probably already spending in excess of $800 to attend. That is what it is costing me to get to ACS this year (excluding food and drink).

 

Perhaps the answer is a yearly subscription to IFPA or an Australian arm of it - required for registration and to maintain your IFPA ranking? This would widen the "audience" so to speak.

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Each country registered with the IFPA, has two automatic entries into the IFPA World Championships. If the top two players decline then we can go down the list until the two spots are filled. Naturally, I always hope I can fill the Aussie spots by about 5th or 6th position. Otherwise, those spots which aren't filled will go back into the major pool of players who are in the top 100 World rankings and they will be offered a chance to compete.

 

To reply to @rusty_dagger comment, SA has had two players compete in the World Championships: Greg Siegele and Robert Macauley (both last year in Sweden). Rob will will also be competing again this year as the players above him declined the invite. So, SA do have the opportunity to get to the top spots as they are willing to travel and compete in the tournaments that count. This year, South Australia is going to hold even more local events which will help their statistics.

 

The only state which hasn't really made an effort or bothered with it is Western Australia. Maybe I should include Tasmania and Northern Territory, but with NT I don't think there would be enough people or players to be viable. Whereas, WA has the player base, as far as I'm aware. Just no one willing to get it going there apart from Norbert trying. Tasmania is another state where I'm not sure what is down there and whether there is enough players to make it viable.

 

Sorry to get off track a bit, but my point is that over time, competitive pinball will continue to grow and give more opportunities and tournaments to players through the passionate Tournament Directors' who step up and hold more events. Bigger, more exciting and challenging events are happening and annual events are evolving.

 

The top two ranked spots don't necessarily stay with Richard and Edy. Yes, they have proven time and again, that they deserve those spots through the tournaments they compete in, but there are players just below them and climbing that have shown that they can be as good, given the opportunity. Robert Macauley has caught up by travelling. Peter Watt is always up near the top too. But, each time one of the top ranked players declines the invitation to represent, it gives an opportunity to one of the players just below, who may never get that opportunity again. This is a good thing in my opinion.

 

But, what Leigh and Greg propose, will almost guarantee that we can assist the top 2 ranked players in attending by helping finance their trip. This could still enable 3rd or 4th to be lucky enough to get the opportunity if 1st and/or 2nd ranked can't attend due to other reasons, rather than finances.

 

How this will be managed is another thing that needs to be addressed, if it were something that the players were supportive of such an initiative.

 

Years ago, the Australian Pinball Association was born to handle such things, but that was short lived.

Edited by Fair Dinkum Dan
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I said it in the other thread, I'd be more than happy to contribute more at the majors to go toward a pool for eligible players for IFPA worlds. I get a kick out of competitive play and, personally, would prefer the top 2 or 4 (even if they are the same people year in and year out) have more opportunity to go to IFPA. The whole point of the IFPA world championship, is to have the worlds best players competing. There's a reason Edy, Richard, Rob and Peter are up the top, it's simply because they outclass everyone else. When Australians step up to have their go on the international stage, I'd rather that Australian be a true reflection of the pinball talent.

 

Take last Batcave as an example. If that was structured in such a way that the winner of that got given the 'golden ticket' so to speak to go to IFPA, and that person who won it being me, I'd look like a complete buffoon on the international stage. I may have a good day here or there, but I'm about 95% less consistent as the top 4. And if I were having one of my bad days (ask @Malone , he sees it weekly), it would be embarrassing for all involved, not least damaging to any media attention the IFPA may be receiving for the world championship at the time. Fox Sports shows the world how an idiot from Australia can flail and drain 3 balls in the space of 20 seconds! Woohoo!

 

As for AA members giving money to a competition most don't consider important. I think that's the wrong way to look at it. Most AA'rs wouldn't even give a pinball league the light of day, let alone one of the major competitions. This would be the competition die hards like us contributing extra at a tournament only competition die hards attend. And like others have said, none of us enter for the cash prize at the end (or maybe the top 4 do considering they have a pretty good chance of snatching it). The bulk of us come along because we enjoy competing, and hope to do better than last. Actually, I wouldn't be surprised if just about everyone's goal is just to make it through qualifying!

 

If Batcave was $8000 prize pool, and it was stripped to be half that and the other half going to a willing and eligible IFPA attendee, would anyone who competed at Batcave care? I'd be surprised if anyone would to be honest. Even $4k toward flights and accommodation would be a huge incentive for a suitable player.

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If every player in every comp was levied $1 each (in Aussie they are usually paying something to enter anyway, so $1 won't even be noticed...) that would add up to a considerable sum at the end of the year.

 

Easy. :)

 

rd

 

Administration nightmare and is against current ifpa rules i think.

 

Better to limit the overhead by only stinging the big comps. If it works for the ATO ... ;)

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You can't get a "golden ticket" or Wildcard from one event to another in an IFPA endorsed event. You also can't attend the IFPA World Championships other than being in the Top 100 World ranked or by way of the Country exemption spots.

 

While I agree that the IFPA World Championships is essentially made up of the best players in the world, plus the top ranked players in each country competing, sometimes there are players who are in the top 5 or so who are equally as good or can compete just as well against some of the other competitors from other countries attending the World Championships. As RGR pointed out earlier, it is basically one and a half days of qualifying in 4player games.

 

I don't believe for one minute that someone would want to belittle themselves and think that they aren't worthy enough to stand up against other competitors and have a go (I know you're just being light hearted about it Marc). We all have bad days, but we all have the ability to win when you put your mind to it. But yes, watching some of the Top 10 in the world really shows you why they are the best in the world.

 

Look at that Aussie ice skater who won in the Olympics that year where the rest of the field wiped themselves out just before the finish line. I truly believe the guys who represent Australia, be it 1st or even 6th ranked here, are all worthy enough to go and represent Australia as they have competed all year against their peers to try and climb the rankings table. There are definitely other players further down the list, or not even competing who can rival our top guns. They just haven't had the opportunity to do so yet. And this is what happens and will continue to occur while pinball continues to grow and more and more people get to compete.

 

There is no deadline. There is no set time frame for evolution. It naturally occurs and this is how I have always seen pinball slowly coming back into the mainstream, one step at a time.

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Thats why I was saying that PAPA is a better event to promote. If you think you aint good enough for A grade then you can play in B and possibly win it. Thats better for promoting pinball given that players of all levels can be in with a chance of winning something. The same goes for Pinburgh... Colin went to Pinburgh as well... Would be interested to see what he thought of it. Personally I feel that Pinburgh is more social and has a great structure... But from a skill perspective nothing beats PAPA.
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And if I were having one of my bad days (ask @Malone , he sees it weekly), it would be embarrassing for all involved, not least damaging to any media attention the IFPA may be receiving for the world championship at the time. Fox Sports shows the world how an idiot from Australia can flail and drain 3 balls in the space of 20 seconds! Woohoo!

 

It's not usually as bad as all that! Your defensive skills are such that I'd back you to make the 30sec mark.

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I really don't mind paying a bit extra for my entry as long as it goes to a good cause, perhaps some of the comp entry fees could go to the homeless kids refuge to buy them a pinball machine? as they don't have any pinballs, poor kids, save the children.
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