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Thread: WPC 5V reset workaround.

  1. #11
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    What a fantastic and efficient re-routing solution! It reduces the existing 5v load, removes excess heat from the 12v reg and transfers excess current from the 12v line for clean MPU operation. Right? I was going to add a new 240vac to 5vdc switch mode supply which would of involved much stuffing around. Your efficient solution destroys that idea. Kudos Rob!

    Also, do you have a A 12 Volt Regulator order option for the four pack offer?

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Finny View Post
    Also, do you have a A 12 Volt Regulator order option for the four pack offer?
    I can look into that, but I'm worried it will exceed the weight constraints. If you want 4 or more of them it would probably be better to just buy them directly from www.ezsbc.com. He offers a slight discount at a quantity of 4 (and again at 10 and again at 100) and I know he ships overseas because he has offered me some good insight that helped make my 4-pack solution possible. I've bought hundreds of their regulators now and can confidently recommend them.

    Finny, you summarized it well in one sentence (something I'm not always good at...) Just to be clear, swapping out the 7812 for a switched regulator is an optional endeavor - my daughterboard will work (and not cause heating issues) without the swap-out.

    And should the next owner not like the daughterboard, it will be much easier to un-install than the power supply solution you describe.

  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by rkahr View Post
    I can look into that, but I'm worried it will exceed the weight constraints.
    I looked into it and it does exceed the weight limit. The good news is it will only add in the neighborhood of 50 to 75 cents to the shipping. Is there interest in a 4-pack of daughterboards with the 12-volt regulators for US$137 (same math for $108 plus $7 per regulator plus an extra buck to cover the shipping) or is what's posted sufficient? If there's interest I'll add the paypal button to my site (www.kahr.us).

    -Rob

  4. #14
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    So are you marketing this as a 'fix' or a temporary workaround as was described earlier in the thread by another..?

    I think its great, having a pinball meet and you get the dreaded reset - 5 minutes later, and your back in action.

    Very nice.

  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by WOKA View Post
    So are you marketing this as a 'fix' or a temporary workaround as was described earlier in the thread by another..?
    Woka,

    First, thanks for the compliment...

    Next, I get asked similar questions a good bit; I'm going to offer excerpts from the creditdotpinball article to expand on my current thinking that (1) because my daughterboard solution improves the balance of the power loading within the WPC system it is good to have installed but (2) temporary or long-term installation is really up to the pinball owner. You can see the whole article at http://creditdotpinball.com/2014/04/...daughterboard/ .

    CD: What do you say to critics who dub your product as a “Band-Aid” solution? That it ignores a much larger problem by temporarily patching it up and ignoring it?
    RK: I get that logic, but I really think I attacked this problem from a more holistic viewpoint. This little daughterboard fundamentally changes the calculus that is power distribution within WPC era games. Why do NASCAR drivers change tires mid-race? If they would just slow down they could get a lot more miles out of those tires! Obviously they are pushing the limits of the tires on every turn to eek out a faster time. The WPC 5-volt rail is similar in that it runs close enough to design thresholds that when it is not pristine problems surface. By reducing the 5-volt load, my daughterboard backs the design away from that bleeding edge and that is better for the MPU and everything that remains on the PDB-derived 5-volt supply.

    CD: Who do you see as the main buyers of your daughterboard? Casual players? Tinkerers?
    RK: Based on feedback from purchases the spectrum spans from folks who have never opened their backbox to professionals repair shops who maintain machines for others. Some are sitting in tool boxes waiting for a need; others are installed in machines and forgotten about. One was returned because the individual still had resets – he used my board to rule out a 5-volt rail problem, fixed a diode problem elsewhere and then sent the daughterboard back. Go figure.
    I personally think it is more interesting to ask where along the well-documented path of best practices for addressing WPC resets should different experience levels reach to my daughterboard. Said another way, if I were the author of Pinwiki, where would I insert “install a daughterboard”? For some it would be very near the end (if at all). For others it should be inserted before a soldering iron is plugged in. And for yet another subset it should be shortly after the “open the backbox” step. I am confident that for everybody it should be ahead of the resistor hack – especially if traces are being cut to separate the regulator from ground. Otherwise it’s debatable – I don’t know where exactly I would insert it into Pinwiki.

  6. #16
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    My 2 cents in simple context...

    The power supply board is inherently faulty in respect of longevity.

    Some components only survive or remain in tolerance within its commercial lifespan. After that, tolerance levels may be affected which can trip the watch dog circuit under load.

    If board revision Mk 2.0 was produced by Williams, they may have separated the 5v supply in the same way as this simple plugin mod.

    After adding the mods we may pose the question, Will the existing untouched ageing components with reduced tolerances cause any catastrophic failures to occur?

    As long as the new 12v supply remains in spec there should be nothing major in respect of failure.

    I believe that if the 5v threshold lowers to a certain point, all the solenoids jam on and start cooking everything, hence the watch dog circuit design to reset the game.

    Then the answer is no… Nothing catastrophic will occur… This mod solves the 5v issue and extends the boards potential longevity…

    Can it affect the rest of the games functions like reduced solenoid toque or dimmer lighting? I Don't know.

    Any certified electronics techs familiar with Williams care to comment?
    Last edited by Finny; 19th May 2014 at 12:26 AM.

  7. #17
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    All,

    Was asked on Pinside to offer a 4-pack of the new "Pro" version that detects under voltages that "would have" caused resets. Now both this new version and the original "Classic" version are available in 4-packs that include international postage.

    -Rob
    -visit http://www.kahr.us to get my daughterboard that helps fix WPC pinball resets

  8. #18
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    All,

    Both the classic and pro versions of my daughterboard are now slightly smaller, single-PCB solutions. This change reduced the shipping weight enough that I can include four ezSBC 12 volt regulator replacements in the international four-packs for no extra postage. Soooo, if you want 4 daughterboards AND 4 regulators, add both to your Paypal cart before checking out. The regulators are $7 each ($28 for four); same as in the USA. You don't have to buy the regulators but I thought it would be a nice option since 12% of USA sales include the regulator. I don't sell the regulators without the daughterboards; if you only want the regulators visit my friend Daniel's site at ezSBC.com.

    Check it out at my website (http://www.kahr.us).

    -Rob
    -visit http://www.kahr.us to get my daughterboard that helps fix WPC pinball resets

  9. #19
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    Hi Australia,

    It has come to my attention that homepin has developed a knock-off of my daughterboard because of "limited availability" in Australia. I think this old thread demonstrates otherwise - I've made every effort to make my boards available to the International pinball community from my very first days of releasing the product. What's not reflected in this thread is that I have continued to make my daughterboard as accessible as possible in Australia. For example, I have a Transferwise account that allows me to take payments in Australian dollars (so, no PayPal) and when paid with that option I can still ship first class to Australia. Australia and Canada are the only two countries with this first class postage option - the rest of the world seems ripe with fraud. Sure, the good old days of US $8 shipping are gone, but I can still ship a daughterboard to Australia for US $16 first class or for US $34 for Priority Mail. Note that the Priority mail option is a flat-rate package that can hold 20 daughterboards - so organizing a group-buy can be an economical option.

    Also notice that from the first days and continuing today I've described my board as a "WPC Power Fix" and not as a 'reset fix'. There are clear references to this in the technical details on my web site, in the credit dot article from 2014 and that theme continues today - as recently demonstrated in the technical presentation I did at the Northwest Show earlier this year in Tacoma, WA (you can see it here: https://www.twitch.tv/videos/432704564 . My piece begins at the 1 hour, 30 minute mark). The homepin knock-off is marketed as a reset-fix product which is disappointing. The multiple power derivations in WPC era games are complex and marketing as a reset-fix is flat-out lying to customers because without some power supply maintenance reset problems can return eventually. It turns out pinsound is also marketing a knock-off and marketing it around a reset fix. Here again, they are lying to customers in an attempt to cash-grab via over-selling. That's just not my style.

    Anyway, I'd ask that those who are interested in installing the power fix into their WPC era games to use the genuine KAHR.US WPC Power Fix and not some unlicensed imitation.

    -Rob
    -visit http://www.kahr.us to get my daughterboard that helps fix WPC pinball resets or my Pinball 2000 H+V Video Sync Combiner kit

  10. #20
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    I think your product is great, the original KAHR WPC Power fix solved a few issues for me when troubleshooting resets.
    Last edited by hotty; 1 Week Ago at 04:42 PM.

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