Trend Signs Posted March 2, 2013 Share Posted March 2, 2013 Hey all! Hope all are well. I am curious about the legalities of reproducing artwork, mainly regarding pinball machines. 1. Can I reproduce graphics for a paying clients personal restoration project? 2. Can I reproduce graphics for my own personal projects? 3. If I have ready to print graphics can I sell them to prospective clients? 4. Does the copyright on the artwork own by who ever, expire. In other words if the Pinball machine is vintage has the copyright expired. I just don't want to tread on anybody's toes when recreating artwork. Thanks, Craig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
humpalot Posted March 2, 2013 Share Posted March 2, 2013 Why don't you introduce yourself first? Your user name infers that you are a business, if that is the case then you should already know the answers to the questions that you have asked. Welcome to AA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Homepin Posted March 2, 2013 Share Posted March 2, 2013 Welcome to AA I am no lawyer BUT the following is from my personal experience (and run ins with licencees) (1) no (2) yes (3) no (4) generally, no Read the following VERY VERY carefully: There is a LOT of stuff that goes on under the table and out of sight. As this is not seen by other than the two parties concerned, nobody knows about it. Hey all! Hope all are well. I am curious about the legalities of reproducing artwork, mainly regarding pinball machines. 1. Can I reproduce graphics for a paying clients personal restoration project? 2. Can I reproduce graphics for my own personal projects? 3. If I have ready to print graphics can I sell them to prospective clients? 4. Does the copyright on the artwork own by who ever, expire. In other words if the Pinball machine is vintage has the copyright expired. I just don't want to tread on anybody's toes when recreating artwork. Thanks, Craig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fish Tales Posted March 2, 2013 Share Posted March 2, 2013 offer them custom art, something fresh, much of the 90's art was so-so, and could be done better Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vcoleiro1 Posted March 2, 2013 Share Posted March 2, 2013 This is something I have to deal with myself with my micro arcade machines. I get lots of people every day asking me to make them a micro Galaga, Pac-Man etc etc etc. Although I'd like to sell them one in the game art they are after, artwork copyright has always stopped me from doing so. As Extra Ball mentioned , they only alternative is to offer them some snazzy custom art that you have come up with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trend Signs Posted March 2, 2013 Author Share Posted March 2, 2013 Sorry I didn't introduce myself. I am actually a member from many years ago...... Previous ID: Playwell Join Date Sep 2007 State Sydney - South East Posts 208 Mentioned 0 Post(s) Post Thanks / Like I couldn't login through this account as I think it may have been deactivated.. to Answer Mr Humpalot - Graphics is indeed my method of income/business however I deal in commercial large scale graphics. Hence the reason why I don't know the legalities behind the pinball scene. One would think due to all the pinball producing companies are no longer operating/out of business (Stern Excluded of course) that any one wanting to reproduce artwork would be free to do so. 1. For instance who owns any active copyright to Data East artwork and designs? 2. If the design was changed 15% from the original would this be condisidered not the same as the origianl artwork? (Iv'e heard that you only need to change a product by 13% to avoid a copyright action.... However this may be BS) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Homepin Posted March 2, 2013 Share Posted March 2, 2013 One would think due to all the pinball producing companies are no longer operating/out of business (Stern Excluded of course) that any one wanting to reproduce artwork would be free to do so. 1. For instance who owns any active copyright to Data East artwork and designs? 2. If the design was changed 15% from the original would this be condisidered not the same as the origianl artwork? (Iv'e heard that you only need to change a product by 13% to avoid a copyright action.... However this may be BS) The companies may no longer be operating BUT they still own/hold the rights and licence them out for others to reproduce. These rights are vigorously protected. Data East art is owned by Stern but it seems (from my observations) they are less interested in legal actions than others are. My legal advice was 8% BUT - it depends on WHAT 8% you are changing - it isn't as simple as a percentage change - IE you could reproduce a pinball cabinet artwork and change 50% but leave the original logo - this is a no no. It's a minefield and my honest advice is to either forget about it or just don't tell anyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators furballx Posted March 2, 2013 Administrators Share Posted March 2, 2013 Much (most) pinball art and naming is still explicitly owned and copyrighted. Bally and Williams are still producing licensed products through Planetary Pinball (purchased from Mr Pinball Australia a few years ago), Stern Pinball Company are still up and running and the owner of the Gottlieb rights persues them to a point where he asks for manual downloads to be removed from sites (not sure about artwork though??). It was certainly a smart move to ask before running in. It would be good if you could provide some art without treading on any toes. Video games seem to attract less attention for some reason, although I expect some is also heavily protected. As for your account, it is still active..... http://www.aussiearcade.com/member.php/1859-Playwell PM an admin and they can probably reset your password. If you have changed email addressed since you last used the account there is a goo chance that an automated reset will be going to an old address. Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trend Signs Posted March 3, 2013 Author Share Posted March 3, 2013 Thanks guys form the advise. Hmm. It's seems far to hard to be a business opportunity. It's a pity though. Could have been a little more fun than commercial graphics.... And I would not have to spend most of my time in the city. Thanks again for your comments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vcoleiro1 Posted March 3, 2013 Share Posted March 3, 2013 I wonder if those old companies would license artwork reproduction. Thats something I never looked into. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FLEX Posted March 3, 2013 Share Posted March 3, 2013 You could always do it for free, but if people still give you a donation you cant help that ;) . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Homepin Posted March 3, 2013 Share Posted March 3, 2013 You could always do it for free. Nope - still breaks copyright laws.......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FLEX Posted March 3, 2013 Share Posted March 3, 2013 Nope - still breaks copyright laws.......... really! always thought it was ok to do it for no financial gain. oh well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators furballx Posted March 3, 2013 Administrators Share Posted March 3, 2013 There are a lot of rumours about when and how you can reproduce copyright material. It looks to me as though most comments are related to US law or British law or god knows where law. The smartest (read safest)thing you could do would be to pay some money and get advice from a bonafide legal practitioner rather than the internet's bush laywers. Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Homepin Posted March 3, 2013 Share Posted March 3, 2013 There are a lot of rumours about when and how you can reproduce copyright material. It looks to me as though most comments are related to US law or British law or god knows where law. The smartest (read safest)thing you could do would be to pay some money and get advice from a bonafide legal practitioner rather than the internet's bush laywers. Dave Yup - I did pay for someone who is well versed in copyright law, he said that 'technically' you can't even reproduce artwork yourself, for your own equipment BUT that there was no court that would ever uphold an action against you for doing so. The big problem comes in when you get a third party to print something for you - they are 100% breaking copyright laws in doing so, payment or not. That's why (in the USA) Kinkos refuse to do wide format printing for anything arcade related. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darksoul Posted March 3, 2013 Share Posted March 3, 2013 The only artwork of known manufacturers that seems to probably be licence free is Atari. I've tried for ages to find out if it is copyrighted and to whom without success. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Homepin Posted March 3, 2013 Share Posted March 3, 2013 The only artwork of known manufacturers that seems to probably be licence free is Atari. I've tried for ages to find out if it is copyrighted and to whom without success. Easy way to flush 'em out - offer some up for sale.....:lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darksoul Posted March 3, 2013 Share Posted March 3, 2013 Good point! Evil grin for thoughts of selling Superman backglass artwork. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robm Posted March 3, 2013 Share Posted March 3, 2013 So it seems that the sale is not legal - but what about sharing scans of actual artwork, where does that lie. Say i just would like a high res image for my desktop background..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemini2544 Posted March 3, 2013 Share Posted March 3, 2013 My best advise here is pay a COPYRIGHT LAWYER for his/her professional opinion. It will be a lot cheaper than a law suit. Asking us for legal advise and then you act on that advise would drag AA into the legal action, because you'll say we said... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Homepin Posted March 3, 2013 Share Posted March 3, 2013 My best advise here is pay a COPYRIGHT LAWYER for his/her professional opinion. It will be a lot cheaper than a law suit. Asking us for legal advise and then you act on that advise would drag AA into the legal action, because you'll say we said... I did and he said you basically can't copy anything legally - even for your own use. No need to drag AA into anything - just don't do it. If someone were to get differing advice well good on them - nothing to do with AA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemini2544 Posted March 3, 2013 Share Posted March 3, 2013 Sorry Homepin I was suggesting my comment to TREND SIGNS. I should have stated that first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Homepin Posted March 4, 2013 Share Posted March 4, 2013 Sorry Homepin I was suggesting my comment to TREND SIGNS. I should have stated that first. No problem and I do understand where you are coming from as we don't want AA dragged into anything. You just don't need the agro Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vcoleiro1 Posted March 4, 2013 Share Posted March 4, 2013 Is it possible to pay a licence fee to reproduce the artwork? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators furballx Posted March 4, 2013 Administrators Share Posted March 4, 2013 Is it possible to pay a licence fee to reproduce the artwork? Often it is, yes. This is what happens when pinball art is reproduced. The problem comes when a third party is introduced. Take for example Judge Dredd. The 2000AD people own the rights for JD images. They still make a stack of cash from JD and other 2000AD stuff. If you want to remake JD side art for the pin you need to offer enough cash for the licence for it to be worth their while selling it to you. You would then need to pay a fee to Planetary Pinball to use the Bally logos for it to be correct and legal. All that it left to do now is work out if you can sell enough of them to make a profit on the venture. This is the reason it is far easier to repro games like Getaway where you only need to pay one lot of licence fees. Dave - - - Updated - - - Is it possible to pay a licence fee to reproduce the artwork? Reading again if you mean for a one off use then I would suspect that it is far more hassal for the licencee than it is worth. Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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