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T2 power/reset problems :(


snippy

Question

Hi all,

 

Well, it was destined to happen, been having too much fun with my recently acquired T2...

 

Last night I was playing it and it reset itself, it was as if someone had flicked the switch of and back on again really quickly.

 

I thought, err, that's weird, anyway. Tried to have a go today, 30 seconds in, and it just seemed to turn itself off - waiting maybe 5 seconds and it turned itself back on again.

 

I've opened the head and pushed all ribbon cables in and checked fuses, nothing that looks obvious to me, being a complete noob.

 

So when it actually powers on everything seems to work perfectly, until it powers itself off. Maybe time for a new power supply ? what do yas reckon ?

 

Cheers,

Snippy

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Hi all,

 

Well, it was destined to happen, been having too much fun with my recently acquired T2...

 

Last night I was playing it and it reset itself, it was as if someone had flicked the switch of and back on again really quickly.

 

I thought, err, that's weird, anyway. Tried to have a go today, 30 seconds in, and it just seemed to turn itself off - waiting maybe 5 seconds and it turned itself back on again.

 

I've opened the head and pushed all ribbon cables in and checked fuses, nothing that looks obvious to me, being a complete noob.

 

So when it actually powers on everything seems to work perfectly, until it powers itself off. Maybe time for a new power supply ? what do yas reckon ?

 

Cheers,

Snippy

 

There are a lot of things that could be the cause, but here are the 3 likely culprits:

 

1 - burnt connectors. Check the connectors to the PCBs, check for discolouration or burns

 

2 - 5v bridge has lost a diode - and needs replacing

 

3 - if it reboots only when playing, then a diode may have come off a coil, if that happens a spike may reboot the game

 

The guides at marvin3m are an excellent resource:

 

http://www.pinrepair.com/wpc/index.htm

 

Cheers

Jacob

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There are a lot of things that could be the cause, but here are the 3 likely culprits:

 

1 - burnt connectors. Check the connectors to the PCBs, check for discolouration or burns

 

2 - 5v bridge has lost a diode - and needs replacing

 

3 - if it reboots only when playing, then a diode may have come off a coil, if that happens a spike may reboot the game

 

The guides at marvin3m are an excellent resource:

 

http://www.pinrepair.com/wpc/index.htm

 

Cheers

Jacob

 

Gday Jacob,

 

1. Thanks for your replies, I'm going to have a good look at the connectors to the PCB's now.

 

2. I'm sure I can read about this one at the link below.

 

3. Interesting, I might just let it run without actually playing it to see if it's a component of the playfield causing the poweroff/reboot.

 

Cheers,

Snippy

 

Where are you located?

 

Hi Prowler,

 

I'm located in the newcastle area of nsw, close to maitland to be more specific.

 

Cheers,

Snippy.

 

Reading this in the beginning basics of the repair manual....

 

"If they have a connector on a board, and it is burnt, it's best to replace it (and not solder wires directly to the board, circumventing the connector, and making the game "unservicable" in the future!) "

 

Pity whoever fixed this machine prior to me owning it didn't live by these rules, looks like a number of connectors on my machine have been 'circumvented'.

 

Snippy.

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There's some pretty handy guys around the Newcastle area that may be able to give you a hand. I would recommend Skybeaux (Ken) as well.......he's a top bloke and top technician in the Central Coast area.

 

He'd almost be good enough to fix the crack in my arse. :lol

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Hi Talby,

 

Cheers I'll look him up after I have a little fiddle around myself. My soldering skills are extremely basic, i've done some mod chips, car stereos and arcade control panels..

 

Still find it very interesting reading these repair manuals, but I know my limits too :)

 

Snippy.

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There's some pretty handy guys around the Newcastle area that may be able to give you a hand. I would recommend Skybeaux (Ken) as well.......he's a top bloke and top technician in the Central Coast area.

 

He'd almost be good enough to fix the crack in my arse. :lol

 

I doubt i could fix your arse crack Blair......wouldn't know where to start:lol

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I doubt i could fix your arse crack Blair......wouldn't know where to start:lol

 

Ahh mate, beats me as well, it's been there as long as I can remember and just won't seem to heal. Everytime I think it is starting to fuse itself together a big rush of wind comes out of nowhere and blows it apart again. :blink:

 

Anyway...back on track. Ken can fix almost anything then....except bum cracks. :laugh:

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Hey all,

 

Just a quick one, looks like it wont turn on at all now. When i turn it on it just makes a crackle from the speakers :( ARGH

 

I didn't touch anything, so I dunno what's wrong, finally cracked it I guess. Anyone got any other easy things I could check ?

 

Cheers,

Snippy.

 

I doubt i could fix your arse crack Blair......wouldn't know where to start:lol

 

Hey Skybeaux,

 

Sounds like you've been dobbed into being the local guru, I'm sure I've actually seen adds from "Ken" at central coast that can fix pinnies, must be the same one ?

 

Looks like fixing this might be beyond me, you going to be in the maitland area any time this week ? :)

 

Snippy.

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Hey Skybeaux,

 

Sounds like you've been dobbed into being the local guru, I'm sure I've actually seen adds from "Ken" at central coast that can fix pinnies, must be the same one ?

 

Looks like fixing this might be beyond me, you going to be in the maitland area any time this week ? :)

 

Snippy.

 

I advertise occasionally so that would be me from the adds

I've sent you a message.

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You've only had it a week and you broke it already? :)

 

As a fellow newbie my advice is to read the pinrepair site cover to cover. Diagnosis and repairs to these boards isn't rocket science and reading pinrepair will help you gain the confidence to at least diagnose the issue and save a tech some time, if not do some simple repairs yourself. I'm not claiming to be anywhere near competent and I will still pass my boards on to a pro for the difficult repairs but knowing how the boards work is the most important step in saving yourself time, money and stress.

 

Keep us posted about the repairs, my WPC power board on my T2 was a complete mess (much like yours I bet) but it's working like a dream now after Steve from Capital fixed it up.

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...isn't rocket science...

 

No it isn't, but sometimes needs a little magic :D

 

If you are new and a tad uncomfortable, my best advice is to get someone clever to fix it, but don't just go watch TV while they do it - help, ask questions and generally bug the person fixing it. Best way to get some of that "magic" rubbed off onto you :D

 

Cheers

Jacob

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Hi all,

 

Thanks for all of the help, both here in the thread and those that also pm'd me.

 

So i did some investigation tonight, I thought at very least I could remove and re-seat all of the ribbon cables and the other plugs.

 

After doing that the game actually came back to life for a short while, I played nearly an entire game, but off she went again.

 

I've taken some close up pics for anyone interested, of particular interest is this section of the board, J114 and J115 connectors have had some attention in the passed. I couldn't remove J114, seems like the far left pin/plastic is melted on there.

 

Travel down the wires an inch and we can see they have been spliced into, maybe the reason this section is such a mess, I dont really know.

 

http://home.exetel.com.au/snippy/images/t2Pinball/CircuitBoards/IMG_2967shrunk.jpg

 

J121 has also had the re-wire treatment, which can be seen here, well, not the back of the board but you know what i mean.

 

http://home.exetel.com.au/snippy/images/t2Pinball/CircuitBoards/IMG_2963shrunk.jpg

 

So we can see here the top of J114, looks melty (yes, a technical term I know)

 

http://home.exetel.com.au/snippy/images/t2Pinball/CircuitBoards/IMG_2964shrunk.jpg

 

http://home.exetel.com.au/snippy/images/t2Pinball/CircuitBoards/IMG_2974shrunk.jpg

 

Sorry for the bloated images, heres some others for anyone interested.

 

http://home.exetel.com.au/snippy/images/t2Pinball/CircuitBoards/IMG_2971shrunk.jpg

 

http://home.exetel.com.au/snippy/images/t2Pinball/CircuitBoards/IMG_2972shrunk.jpg

 

Cheers,

Snippy.

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Heys,

 

Yeah looks like it needs to go to the guru, I just need to find a sunny day and a ute.

 

Another thing I should mention, when it powers itself off, the D19 LED on the cpu board lights up.

 

When it's 'working', D21 is lit solid, and D20 flickers on and off..

 

http://home.exetel.com.au/snippy/images/t2Pinball/CircuitBoards/IMG_2975shrunk.jpg

 

Cheers,

Snippy.

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WARNING: I am not an expert but am passing on my recently learned "magic" from the repair of my board which had very similar to problems yours.

 

That looks so amazingly like my T2 board I think we have twins! The repair to J121 and J115 isn't that unusual, it's likely the original IDC connectors were burnt out and whoever fixed it was being lazy or didn't have the proper IDC's to replace the originals.

 

See here for an explanation of the indicator LED's:

 

http://www.pinrepair.com/wpc/index3.htm#poweron

 

D19/LED201 (blanking): at power-on should be ON for about 3 seconds (1 second on WPC-95), and then turn off and stay off. When D19/LED201 is on, the blanking circuit is disabled (and will not allow any coils to be energized).

D20/LED203 (diagnostic): After D19/LED201 turns off, D20/LED203 should stay flashing permanently while the game is turned on. This indicates the CPU is "running".

D21/LED202 (+5vdc): this LED should ALWAYS be on. It indicates the CPU has +5 volts DC power.

Problem Power-On CPU D20/LED203 (diagnostic) Flash Codes. If D20 does not flash continually, here are the flash codes diagnostics:

blinks ONE time: U6/G11 CPU game ROM bad

blinks TWO times: U8 CMOS RAM chip bad

blinks THREE times: U9 WPC custom chip bad (pre WPC-S), or G10 Security PIC chip bad (WPC-S and later)

 

Doesn't help you much really, but "normal" is as you say, D19 off, D20 flashing and D21 on.

 

Are all the LED's on your WPC power board on when your machine powers off? All but LED3 should be ON permanently.

 

One other thing you can do is check the voltages on the power board when your machine is powered down, around the middle of the board there are two metal "nipples" called Test Points (TP) one marked GND and one marked 20V, there are also a few others for 5V and 12V (and another near the 5V, I think it's 6V). If you have a multimeter use it to check the voltages across the GND and other TP's to make sure the power board has the correct voltages, check this when it is working and when it dies to see if there is a difference (if there isn't a difference the problem may not be the power board).

 

If it helps, while a little different your problem is VERY similar to mine, and mine is being caused by the CPU board, not the power board. Plug and unplug all the ribbons and IDC's from the CPU board, I also had it recommended to slightly remove an re-plug the removable chips on the CPU board (this effectively cleans the connections).

 

One last thing, you don't seem to have a connector on J120, is that also soldered direct to the back of the board?

 

Also, you shouldn't need to cart the whole machine to a tech, while it is helpful to have the whole thing, removing the power and CPU boards should save you renting/borrowing a ute.

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WARNING: I am not an expert but am passing on my recently learned "magic" from the repair of my board which had very similar to problems yours.

 

Thanks scratch, I appreciate this.

 

Hey All,

 

I got a multimeter from work yesterday and hope this morning to do a bit more testing. D19 does remain solid lit when the machine is doing it's reset - however I played the machine yesterday for about 15 minutes without any problem at all.

 

The days it was resetting were very hot and humid here, I am starting to wonder if the humidity or heat is a factor of what's going on.

 

I have unplugged and replugged all ribbon cables carefully, currently i'm not able to re-produce the problem - which is frustrating because I don't think it's 'fixed'.

 

We'll see within the next 30 minutes cause I'm going out to do some voltage testing and fiddle around.

 

From what I can see, J120 is not connected at all.

 

Cheers,

Snippy.

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Hi,

 

Well

 

TP2 the 5v was reading 8.0 on the multimeter while the machine was on

TP3 the 12v was reading 19.2 on the multimeter while the machine was on, with small fluctuations

TP7 the 20v was reading 29 on the multimeter but seemed to be creeping up and up.

 

When the machine was plugged into the wall with the powerpoint on, but not actually turned on

 

TP2 the 5v had no reading

TP3 the 12v has 0.15

TP7 the 20v had 1.8

 

Once again the machine seems to be running OK. Time to go have a quick game before work :) - maybe it's a playfield component causing it to reset.

 

Cheers,

Snippy.

 

Hmph,

 

Well, the machine didn't turn off, but now my cannon doesn't work :( As in, the motor doesn't run to turn it around, fingers crossed it's just the same power issue!

 

Very frustrating indeed, this is the first time i've ever seen any cannon problems, wonder what's stuffed now.

 

Anyway I'm late I've gotta get to work!

Snippy.

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I feel your pain, I thought I had my issues resolved last night after pulling the CPU board out, re-seating the chips on it and replacing the missing stand off, so I left the machine powered on for about 10 minutes to do something else, when I turned around noticed it had turned itself off and a fuse had blown on the power board......Pinballs are so much fun!
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Hi,

 

Well

 

TP2 the 5v was reading 8.0 on the multimeter while the machine was on

TP3 the 12v was reading 19.2 on the multimeter while the machine was on, with small fluctuations

TP7 the 20v was reading 29 on the multimeter but seemed to be creeping up and up.

 

 

If these are your readings - then either your multimeter is set to the wrong settings (must be on DC Volts), or the meter is a piece of crap, or if that truly is the voltages STOP POWERING IT UP until you get the power supply sorted out! You will kill the PCBs...

 

Cheers

Jacob

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Hey all,

 

Just an update basically to say that I dogged it and the pinny is over at skybeaux's place.

 

I thoroughly appreciate the help i've received on here but I just couldn't get the confidence to get my soldering iron out and jump into it.

 

wrong fuses (and a blown one that I suspect is why my cannon stopped working)

raised caps,

earth braid/wire issues,

overloaded/bypassed pin headers,

loose drop targets/playfield assemblies,

previous modifications/repairs,

loose/cracked pins on globe boards,

 

It all sounds fairly routine and obvious now that I write it here, but honestly I didn't pickup on half the stuff that I was shown last night.

 

Cheers,

Snippy.

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Just an update basically to say that I dogged it and the pinny is over at skybeaux's place.

 

Better,cheaper and safer in the long run.Give it time you will pick up a lot more just from reading other people posts,i no i did.

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Hey guys,

 

So it turned out a number of capacitors on the power driver board had to be replaced along with a number of plugs, pin headers, re-layed tracks, etc - it also turned out someone in their infinite wisdom had gutted the power box (picture below) and left the ground disconnected altogether. From what I understand it's probably lucky I wasn't electrocuted or the machine catch fire or something - it would also explain the 'tingle' i got when leaning up against the side rails.

 

Ken also sorted out numerous other little issues here and there for me, the machine looked like it was long due for a service.

 

http://home.exetel.com.au/snippy/images/t2Pinball/powerBoxRepair/powerboxOld.jpg

 

Cheers,

Snippy.

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