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Thread: 2 Pac Clear Coat Warning!

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by DKong View Post
    Some interesting posts from that link from page 1

    quote

    I'm dead set against clear coating, I anticipate 20 years from now
    collectors desparate to locate pins that were not "improved" in this manner.

    Just the other day, on Antiques Roadshow a man showed up with $20,000
    collection of comics whose value he ruined back in the day by preserving
    them with an accepted (at the time) spray on to protect the covers.

    First rule of restoration is do no harm, and make no permament alteration.

    I know some well respected people swear by it, but I think they'll be proven
    wrong long after they're gone.

    Other problems are the increased speed, which is detrimental to plastics and
    playfield. Not too mention it's just too damn shiny for EM's.

    A nice coat of Butchers wax (clear, available ay many hardware stores) is
    perfect, hard as a rock and easily removed with naptha or goof off.

    Is a point i have often discussed with other collectors. seems to be this wave of thought at the moment that we should all be clear coating and that your pf should be perfect to look at as though still straight from the factory.
    I strongly disagree, first up - no restoration should be done unless it is absolutely necessary, if the paint is flaking off badly and so it is being lost by the ball roll, then you have no choice but to restore as it is quite clear that nothing will be left if you continue to play.
    99% of restoration is a crap job done, touching up the pf with paint that doesnt quite match is worse than leaving it alone. Then it gets clear coated and sealed in. So now its totally fu*#ed!

    If you dont have the skills to do the job right, then dont do it.
    if you do, then leave the pf in a condition where someone else can come in after you and do a better job.

    I couldnt agree more with the quotes above - years from now, collectors will be screaming for pins that havent had the touch ups that we all seem to be doing.
    Original is ALWAYS best.

    Rules are;

    Dont do it unless its absolutely necessary
    allow scope for a better job down the track.

    Clear coating for the sake of it is stupidity. it is only necessary if the game is destined for the dump due to its condition. You then have no choice but to do a total restore - by all means CC it. It seals the work and will preserve it.
    The original pin got lost during the damage that it had - nothing to lose here.

    There was a time back in the 70's - 80's where cabinets were being painted brown, presumably to match the curtains or something stupid. Now this is considered heresy. Im quite sure that practises that we do today will be frowned upon in years to come.
    We stress over "classic"pins being in original condition. takes a good 20 years for a pin to be labelled classic really - bear that in mind when touching up your pf.

    When restoring, you have 2 choices,

    make it look new again
    touch up where necessary but retain the years of use look and prevent further damage.

    In both cases - the work should be invisible. If i can see where its touched up - its a crap job. Go sealing this in with CC and its bloody ruined.


    ....my 2c worth... do i need a flame suit???
    Supplier of licensed Gottlieb restoration tools.
    www.flipperescue.com

  2. #22
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    I agree somewhat.

    I think if you have to repaint worn areas then CC is essential (mine was worn to wood, and I repainted 80% of the PF, so CC was a definate!).

    Diamond coated PF's with a minor touchup wouldn't really need a full CC.

    Older machines... probably a personal preference.

    hmm still a tough call.

    I totally agree that if you can't do it (restore) properly, don't do it at all... esp. if it will make it worse.
    My EM backglass was 'touched up' by someone using aerosol spray cans, and when it came for me to do touch ups, I just had to leave those areas
    BEEP BEEP Richie! They ALL float down here. When your down here with us, you'll float too!

  3. #23
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    I do resent the coment 'Clear coating for the sake of it is stupidity' maybe to you, but to me it isn't if done right. After all, this is what Diamond Playfiles are, and what Wayne is doing with new produced playfields.
    You got your opinion and thats fine.. Not once have i had a go at anyone for either clearing or not clearing etc..

    But with this comet "99% of restoration is a crap job done, touching up the pf with paint that doesnt quite match is worse than leaving it alone. Then it gets clear coated and sealed in. So now its totally fu*#ed!"

    So where do you get this stat from, I really hate when people throw in stats and then don't show any substance..
    C'mon 99% of restorations is crap, gotta be joking....

    Going through restores from this site, most and I mean most touch ups I;ve seen are great...

    And with a touch up being done wrong then clearing over, then being fu*#ed!", I doubt it.... My Indy, yes had holes in the playfield, and I don't believe in just spraying dabs of clear here and there, the clear will eventually get an edge doing this... But my first attempt, the colour was out.. Was I screwed, not at all.. Sanded the clear down, re went over the area and lo and behold fixed... My motto is, there is nothing that can't be fixed....

    If you're after something to hold value than there's stamps

    And really I couldn't care less if a collector say my pins and scoffed that they had been cleared... I'd be thankful they are still working in 20 year, and that also I'll be still around

    You forgot the 3rd option, don;t touch it at all. This is to me is what collectors would be more after, if they want original, then I would expect them to have nothing touched up, repaired or anything...

    I'd also put down, applying new stickers, extras, translite, gold plating or anything like this as a negative to a collector, but to an enthusiast a plus..


    Anyway, not flaming anyone, and not calling any one stupid for doing one thing or another as it's to each ones personal taste....

  4. #24
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    But with this comet "99% of restoration is a crap job done, touching up the pf with paint that doesnt quite match is worse than leaving it alone. Then it gets clear coated and sealed in. So now its totally fu*#ed!"

    So where do you get this stat from, I really hate when people throw in stats and then don't show any substance..
    C'mon 99% of restorations is crap, gotta be joking....

    No - im serious. There are only a few good restores done but plenty of heavy handed people prepared to strut their stuff with this. yep, there are some really good restores on this site, but this site represents a minute amount of people who own pins. For all the pins in OZ - how many are owned by members of this site? Of course we dont know, but can only hazard a guess. And not all the restores i see on this site are what i would consider to be good - i see good attempts but not necessarily good results.,
    If you are picking at the number 99%, then i would consider that as perdantic. Its an expression of term used to highlight that there are only a few good restores compared to all restores.


    You forgot the 3rd option, don;t touch it at all.


    Quite sure i placed this option first with;

    Original is ALWAYS best.

    Rules are;

    Dont do it unless its absolutely necessary.

    yes - its each to their own. its your pin - do what the hell you like with it.
    Whether the clear coat fad will prove to be a blessing in the future remains to be seen. The point i am trying to make is that if its not necessary then why do it?
    But i do know of collectors who are already licking their lips at the thought of their classic woodrail in original condition including a few scrapes being highly sought after in years to come as it HASNT been CC'd or touched up.

    Look at Raphael Lankars site - all those pins beautifully restored to museum quality. Repaints abound. yes, they are minty and exquisite to look at, but is their value more than the value of an untouched minty one? Absolutely not.
    Check out the listings on the collectors register,
    how many list repro Bg from Shay - why did they list that? Because original is best and a repro will always be a repro.

    Im not trying to get up your nose, but i wish people would think a bit more before CCing a pf. If you have to restore then by all means, but to CC just because you can, i dont agree with - it was already good the way it was made, as it was intended.

    Yes, ive CC'd before and will again - i also do a lot of restore work, but its done when the thing is close to a write off or the decay has set in and so CC to prevent further.
    Eventually, there will be 2 types of pin - original ones and those that got touched up and CC'd. The choice is yours and im not meaning to bag you for that.
    Im as guilty as the next person, im just about to post here about a fully restored pf and repainted cabinet. I wish i hadnt had to do it, but the cab had already been painted to look more presentable yet the artwork underneath was more than acceptable and the pf was a write off with no repro to be had. So is it a parts machine or restore? I chose restore and CC to seal.

    But in all honesty people are CCing when its not needed. Will they stand up over time??

    Read my post in 20 years
    Supplier of licensed Gottlieb restoration tools.
    www.flipperescue.com

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by AskJacob View Post
    That's what I thought too?

    I assume what looks like a decal is the clear coat getting peeled off the insert, and pulling the silk screened art with them...

    Perhaps it is the primer that is the key to successful clear coating - or is the primer only applied to wood where artwork is screened?

    Cheers
    whats on top of the funhouse inserts then? as I said not all inserts are protected by Mylar.

  6. #26
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    black letters are screen printed onto the inserts when the playfield is screened

    I am not saying you cant use aftermarket insert decals to repair damaged playfields, but what happens is the clear coat takes off the letters that are screened onto the inserts/playfields.

    you also need to make sure the playfield is scratched up with sand paper before clearing, if you ever see someone polish floorboards,

    they use a sealer then sand between coats.
    Australian Distributors for Planetary Pinball, Chicago Gaming, American Pinball.
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  7. #27
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    Wow I hate to see some repairs, touch up etc then, I guess when it comes to arcade and pinball I don't really wonder outside of this forum...
    You're not really getting up my nose Retro Pin, quite enjoy your opinion, you substantiate it, not just making cheap talk...
    gees AK, look you you have stirred....

    If the anyone can sort out the lifting, then I will be happy...

    Hmm screen printed directly on, interesting to know!...

    One thing I never thought of, because of the movement with these inserts, maybe some flex-aid added to the clear will help... I'll have to check this out, been years since I used it, not that it difficult, just was expensive at the time, and will have to check it's hardening properties, it's the stuff used on bumper bars of cars to stop cracking when hit, if you do see cracking then guarantee it was re-painted without the flex-aid additive..

    He Micky Juice, how's the inserts holding up on your play field..

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Savage View Post
    One thing I never thought of, because of the movement with these inserts, maybe some flex-aid added to the clear will help... I'll have to check this out, been years since I used it, not that it difficult, just was expensive at the time, and will have to check it's hardening properties, it's the stuff used on bumper bars of cars to stop cracking when hit, if you do see cracking then guarantee it was re-painted without the flex-aid additive..
    Now that sounds interesting.

    Still sounds like there are so many options out there.

    Cheers

  9. #29
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    I really don't see any reasoning on how an "original" untouched POS container pin can be worth more then a reconditioned/shopped/restored machine.

    If I had the choice between an original PF with small wear spots compared to an PF with extremely well done touch ups I know where my money would be heading.

    If I put on a new plastic set does that mean the machine isn't original anymore?

    If someone wishes to bullet proof there PF for the sake of possible future wear then I say "Good on you!". If anyone had the choice of buying a machine with a CC'd pf compared to one without would they look at it and say "I am going to go for the original" I highly doubt it.

  10. #30
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    This thread wasnt intended to be anything other than a warning to other to take precautions before clear coating if thats the road you wish to go down.
    I'm taking this as a learning experience and look forward to getting Funhouse done.

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