Thanks Thanks:  0
Page 2 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast
Results 11 to 20 of 33

Thread: 2 Pac Clear Coat Warning!

  1. #11
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    State
    Redlands
    Posts
    18,376
    Mentioned
    185 Post(s)
    Quoted
    2100 Post(s)

    maybe you could also do 1 coat of clear then apply the decal then coat over top?

  2. #12
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    State
    New Zealand
    Posts
    6,939
    Mentioned
    45 Post(s)
    Quoted
    297 Post(s)
    None of that stuff is really made to be coated but it does get coating.

    Those arrows woud have been screened, then covered with clear adhesive film then stamp cut.

  3. #13
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    State
    Melbourne
    Posts
    564
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Quoted
    10 Post(s)
    When I replaced the insert decals on my T2, I found that after removing old original decals, which I believe were diamond coated over the top (stand to be corrected here), the new decals were slightly thinner in thickness. Not a huge issue, but when applied, left a small gap / almost air bubble around the edge of PF and where the body of the decal hit the actual insert. I would have cut the decals down, but as they had a black border around the insert, this couldn't be done.

    When I was looking into clearcoating the PF, my panel beater suggested this would cause problems, which is why I went with the mylar.

  4. #14
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    State
    Brisbane - Oz
    Posts
    5,022
    Mentioned
    194 Post(s)
    Quoted
    267 Post(s)
    Very strange problem.

    Now thinking back, I think brushing the two pack on may be too much in the way of chemicals, thus the reaction, when fixing up the shrinkage...

    Thinner in 2 pac is minimal (compare to acrylic) but the hardener is where it's around 2:1, 2 parts clear, 1 part hardener.
    I'm not sure of the implications of less hardener, as this is the chemical reaction needed to cure. Maybe it won't set and be a jelly kind of set, which I wouldn't like to happen...

    As Travis mention, most "Diamond Plated" clear coats have this problem...Unfortunately his was more pronounced.

    I think, how I did my Indy may be the best way (I also think two coats may not be sufficient coverage, might be ok using High Solids clear)

    Back to what I may think will work..

    2-3 coats of clear, 1st coat as always is like a tac coat, to promote adhesion.
    Then 2 normal coats. Dry for a week. Then sand with 800 - 1200 grit Wet Sand paper. And then 1 tac coat, and one good coat followed straight after (no waiting with another coat, usually referred to as a flow coat)...with another coat.

    Of course, my plan for Travis's STTNG is sand back with 800 - 1200 and do the 1 tac, 1 normal, then the flow coat....

    Of course no charge!... but bring some stubbies

  5. #15
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    State
    Brisbane - Wakerley
    Posts
    7,461
    Mentioned
    102 Post(s)
    Quoted
    494 Post(s)
    Found this long long old thread on RGP discussing clear coating. Some of it is worth reading, some not...
    "Beer, it does a belly good!"

    Wanted: Pacman Cab Next Project: Skinny MAME Cab for Samfoot, thread soon, no really. I might even do one on my Pole Position cab!

  6. #16
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    State
    Launceston, Tas
    Posts
    10,578
    Mentioned
    93 Post(s)
    Quoted
    477 Post(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Foot View Post
    Found this long long old thread on RGP discussing clear coating. Some of it is worth reading, some not...
    Some interesting posts from that link from page 1

    quote

    I'm dead set against clear coating, I anticipate 20 years from now
    collectors desparate to locate pins that were not "improved" in this manner.

    Just the other day, on Antiques Roadshow a man showed up with $20,000
    collection of comics whose value he ruined back in the day by preserving
    them with an accepted (at the time) spray on to protect the covers.

    First rule of restoration is do no harm, and make no permament alteration.

    I know some well respected people swear by it, but I think they'll be proven
    wrong long after they're gone.

    Other problems are the increased speed, which is detrimental to plastics and
    playfield. Not too mention it's just too damn shiny for EM's.

    A nice coat of Butchers wax (clear, available ay many hardware stores) is
    perfect, hard as a rock and easily removed with naptha or goof off.

  7. #17
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    State
    Brisbane - Oz
    Posts
    5,022
    Mentioned
    194 Post(s)
    Quoted
    267 Post(s)
    Interesting reading, as for the prospect of devaluing it by clear coating... pffft pinballs aren't to me as valuable collectibles you keep to hope to sell later on for a profit...
    They're meant to be played and enjoyed!, Collectors looking at pinballs in the purist form I don't care about so clearing to me is more preserving it longer to enjoy more... But that's my opionion...

    At the moment, my TZ isn't clear coated, waxed well and I can't see any real increase in speed or damage to plastics from the clear coat...(been cleared for close to 3 years now)

    But we're not talking EM's here, which maybe a totally different ball game.. EMs seem to get more attention of purists, but any touching up would then affect the collect-ability I would think..
    Also getting off track, this is about issues with 2-pac clear, and if there's a fix for the insert lifting prob...
    Hopefully the Super Glue and different attack in clearing will provide better results...

    I'm not far from fixing the clearing my GnR playfield...

  8. #18
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    State
    Pinball Central
    Posts
    2,555
    Mentioned
    69 Post(s)
    Quoted
    538 Post(s)
    playfields do not have decals

    bare timber with glued in inserts
    then sanded and a primer applied
    then screen printed
    then cleared
    Australian Distributors for Planetary Pinball, Chicago Gaming, American Pinball.
    Your one Stop Shop For New Pinball & Arcade Games.

  9. #19
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    State
    Sydney (Normanhurst)
    Posts
    4,767
    Mentioned
    6 Post(s)
    Quoted
    6 Post(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Ballypinball View Post
    playfields do not have decals

    bare timber with glued in inserts
    then sanded and a primer applied
    then screen printed
    then cleared
    That's what I thought too?

    I assume what looks like a decal is the clear coat getting peeled off the insert, and pulling the silk screened art with them...

    Perhaps it is the primer that is the key to successful clear coating - or is the primer only applied to wood where artwork is screened?

    Cheers

  10. #20
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    State
    Calgary, AB, Canada
    Posts
    4,002
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Quoted
    5 Post(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Martyj View Post
    When I replaced the insert decals on my T2, I found that after removing old original decals, which I believe were diamond coated over the top (stand to be corrected here), the new decals were slightly thinner in thickness. Not a huge issue, but when applied, left a small gap / almost air bubble around the edge of PF and where the body of the decal hit the actual insert. I would have cut the decals down, but as they had a black border around the insert, this couldn't be done.
    I had the opposite problem... the decals I bought from eBay were rather thick, so when it was cleared there was a small 'lip' left around them. The clear probably wasn't thick enough / not enough coats.
    I only used them on one or two inserts... the rest eg Arrows in clock I just did by hand = much better.


    While we're at it, I'll post up all the info I found on RGP when I was researching clearcoating. Take what information you think is relevant! Use at you're own risk!

    After you've scrubbed the PF as clean as it gets with Naphtha, take
    600 grit sandpaper and dry thumb sand entire surface until you have an
    even flat matt finish, use a little extra effort on the ball trails
    etc. go VERY light on the plastic inserts. If you have any depressions
    in the PF, now's the time to fix them! No..... clear coating won't
    make up for a rough PF, if anything it will make it worse, I find
    these usually around worn PF plastic inserts. I touch up the paint,
    and then lay some water thick super glue on top of it to raise the
    depression, I can't emphasize this enough. Let me repeat CLAERCOATING
    WILL NOT FIX THIS!!! After it's all done put some 600 grit on a
    sanding block and smooth out the entire PF. The reason I thumb sand
    first is a sanding block doesn't get the uneven areas as well, but
    does a better job of smoothing. Next use an air compressor and blow as
    much sanding dust out of the cracks especially plastic light inserts
    as possible, then get a clean rag and wipe down thoroughly with
    Naphtha, up, down all around, MAKE ABSOLUTLY SURE THERE IS NO Sanding
    dust or grease on the PF, THIS WILL BE THE LAST TIME TO CLEAN!!! Now
    touchup the paint with a water base acrylic, make sure to color match
    or all your efforts will be for not!! Clear coating will not fix a bad
    color match! Put a clean rag down to rest you hand on (You don't want
    oil from you hand on the PF since there will be no more cleaning and
    any oil will fisheye when you shoot the clear coat and that SUCKS!)


    Now take the PF to and auto paint shop and pay $50 to have them clear
    coat it for you (make sure they only wipe it with a tack cloth one
    final time to get rid of dust, Tell them not to use any liquid or
    they'll remove your water based paint, often they do this to remove
    oil, but, you've already done it.) They have the equipment and
    expertise and Automotive clear coat is a much harder material than
    Varathane, The difference is NIGHT and DAY. You will only need 2 or 3
    coats and it will be fully cured in a couple of days versus a month
    for Varathane. "VARATHANE IS FOR AMATURES!!!!" I mean no disrespect
    for those who have done it, I have too. It does look better then
    before, but not as good as it could and with no additional effort.


    When you get your PF back it will look awesome!! Don't be tempted to
    stop there, (It gets MUCH better!)Take some 2000 grit sand paper and a
    spray bottle of water and lightly wet thumb sand the entire PF (Don't
    over wet!), especially areas where you see imperfections (hairs, dust,
    orange peel etc) then use a sanding block and 2000 grit and wet sand
    everything LIGHTLY!! Now your PF is going to lose its shine and look
    like crap. Don't worry, it's only temporary! Get a (preferred) high
    speed circular buffer with a new (Or very clean) simulated wool pad,
    (but an orbital buffer and wool pad will work in a pinch) and some
    very fine rubbing compound, I use "McGuire's Swirl Ease" but any Fine
    compound should work. Not all rubbing compound is the same, some is
    courser than others. Don't use Novus 2 or 3. Novus 3 is too course and
    Novus 2 has no cutting agent! Also be very careful, there may be
    splinters sticking up (around the plastic starpost holes etc.) If a
    high speed circular buffer with wool pad catches a splinter it could
    rip a strip of wood right off!!!! It's generally safe to do the main
    areas without fear. WHEN YOU FINISH YOU'RE PLAYFIELD WILL LOOK LIKE
    GLASS!!!.
    Yes, go lightly. You will only need to sand with 600 grit if you are going to clearcoat the whole playfield afterwards. That's so it will give the clear a good surface to bond with. If the playfield is too smooth, the clearcoat won't adhere as well to playfield. You want the surface block sanded fairly level as well.

    As long as you have cleaned the whole playfield really well with Novus 2, you then lightly sand it with 600 grit.
    You don't want to scuff up the original paint work too much at all. The clear will cover all pores as long as they are very fine.

    The "fun" part will be the touch ups. Trying to match the colours properly. It is hard. Colours look similar but can dry lighter or darker. Then clearcoating will sometimes darken it more. So good to practice on small pieces of scrap wood. Use similar grain timber off cuts first and see how colours match when paint dries. This will be the most time consuming part of it all. Take your time through this whole process as this will be the most crucial part of the restore. I can't stress this point enough. Take your time with this process. The rewards will be greater.

    Is it only a few areas you need touchups? Like are they confined close by?
    What type of paints are you using? Try not to use sharpie pens either. Use black paint and go steady.
    You will have to try and level the playfield before clearing also. But keep away from your touchups. If you have to level touchups, lightly use wet/dry 1200 grit.
    I went thru the SAME thing with F-14, except that only about 8 original
    inserts were left ok. Get the decals. I had excellent results, and I'd say
    I'm lucky and had the best case scenario experience. What I did with any
    inserts that need the decal:

    If the old insert ink and clearcoat are peeled up, the insert will no longer
    be flush with the playfield. I wouldn't recommend putting the decal on like
    this, or you'll have an air pocket around the entire edge of the insert,
    under the decal.

    Heat the insert from the bottom with a hair dryer or heat gun on the lower
    setting. Too hot CAN warp an insert. Guess how I know (looked convex from
    the top).. Push it up and out from the bottom. Clean the glue from the
    hole in the pf and from the insert itself. Scrape the old remaining
    paint/ink from the top of the insert. Wet sand it so that there's no more
    ink, it's perfectly flat, and slick (so that the decal will stick well). I
    did this by putting a piece of 400 grit wet dry paper down on the counter
    (flat) near the sink, flipping the insert plastic over and sanding smooth,
    then on to 800 grit. It should be smooth, clean looking, with no divits in
    it(I had some from scraping gone bad).

    Reglue the insert into the pf. Google search for recommended glue. I used
    Elmer's yellow carpenter glue. Use a flat block to level it, so that it
    dries flush with the surrounding playfield.

    Wait a day, then touch up the paint around the insert as needed, mostly
    black in my case. Block that smooth, if needed. I found it useful to
    dilute the black paint with water, so that it goes on super thin and dries
    flatter.

    When you're satisfied with that, apply the decal.

    I touched up, sanded with 600 grit the whole playfield..then sprayed 3 coats
    of an automotive urethane clear coat. I don't see how the decals would
    really work, without clearcoating over them. If clearcoating, make sure to
    use a scotchbrite pad, if needed, so that there no shiny spot left on the
    playfield, including those insert decals. The clear must have a scuffed
    surface to bite to!!! I wiped it down with Naptha 3 or 4 times. I had NO
    lifting or fisheyes. I think it was partly luck.

    BTW.. I actually DID remove, sand flat, and reglue every single insert on
    the game, except for the 8 or so that had the ink intact. I think it was
    the right move. From the point of view of playing the game, it's hard to
    tell which is original and which a decal
    I had my FH done with absolutely no fish-eye or other problems. I was taught
    that it's very important to sand (600 grit) before touch-up, then copious
    cleaning with Naphtha and...here's a key..to lean your hands and elbows on
    clean rags while doing touch-ups to make sure no body oils get on the
    surface because that's what causes the fish-eyes. All the body shop should
    do is run a tack cloth before shooting. The following day, wet-sand with
    2000 grit then high speed buffing with fine rubbing compound. Worked great
    for me.
    BEEP BEEP Richie! They ALL float down here. When your down here with us, you'll float too!

Page 2 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. Best clear coat for playfield & heart transplant?
    By Willie Wolf in forum Pinball Technical and Repair Questions
    Replies: 48
    Last Post: 21st June 2009, 11:07 PM
  2. Clear coat on gold lockdown bars
    By Shock_And_Awe in forum Pinball Technical and Repair Questions
    Replies: 13
    Last Post: 1st May 2008, 07:49 PM
  3. Clear Coat Sydney
    By Ric in forum Pinball
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 2nd January 2008, 04:27 PM
  4. Clear coat with a roller - can it be done?
    By gunigoogoo in forum Pinball
    Replies: 16
    Last Post: 27th August 2007, 10:15 AM
  5. Spot Clear Coat
    By Ric in forum Pinball Technical and Repair Questions
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: 16th November 2006, 05:51 PM

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •