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Gottelib System 1 blues...


Muzac

Question

Hi everyone,

 

I’ve got the Gottelib System 1 issues again and I’m hoping someone can help!🤞

 

I’ve been fixing up a Gottelib Dragon for mate that has been unloved for many years. It’s been stripped, cleaned and waxed, new flipper button switches have been added and the flipper mechs rebuilt. I cleaned and did all the ground mods to the boards and followed the recommended booting up sequence for a neglected machine.

 

The fuses were all ok, the bridge rectifiers tested fine and the transformer seemed to be sending the correct voltages to the power board. The power board also was sending the correct voltages to the MPU.

 

I was unable to get anything out of the MPU though, no displays or coils activated and only the GI was lit. I had also previously tested all the coils and they seemed to be good.

 

After a discussion with my chum he decided we should get the Pascal all in one (PI - 1 X4) board to replace all of the boards. It arrived a few days ago and I installed it but the major problems still remain!! [emoji33]

 

None of the displays work and the game won’t start. The GI turns on, the Tilt relay activates and the “Game over” light is on but that’s about the size of it.

 

I tested the fuses again (out of the clips), they are all still fine and I checked that they are the correct ones. For some of them I didn’t have new replacements and so they are quite old. Not sure if that’s a contributing factor....

 

Any help would be greatly appreciated!

 

Cheers!

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Aussie Arcade

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We must be in sync @Gemini2544 I’ve had a crazy few weeks but I was finally able to get back into it literally a couple of hours ago tonight.

 

I’ve repinned all the connectors that attach to the Pascal P1 - 1 x 4 but still no displays or controlled lamps illuminate or any solenoids engage. ☹️

 

I had repinned half of the connectors a couple of weeks ago and afterwards when I pressed the start button it sounded the game start melody and I was able to flip the flippers once.

 

This evening after finishing all the connectors I pressed the start button and it sounded the game start melody but I wasn’t able to engage the flippers. I also wasn’t able to make it sound the melody again even after re-starting.

 

When I fire up the machine, the GI lights up with “Game Over” lit and after a slight delay the relays engage. The “Hi Score To Date” turns on and off as well.

 

In regards to the Pascal board, the 3 power control LED lights light immediately and the CPU LED flashes as it’s supposed to. The only anomaly is that the coil protection relay LED (RLY1) is lit but apparently should be unlit unless it’s during a game.

 

So, the displays have got me stumped. [emoji848] @wiredoug mentioned that one of the displays is possibly blowing the fuse on the pascal board. Does anyone know how I ascertain if that is the case? Also, does that mean I need a replacement fuse?

 

Help would be greatly appreciated.

 

Cheers!

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Aussie Arcade

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Is it stuck on "TILT" because if it is there would be no G.I on the playfield or flippers. System 1 tilts & slam tilts can be problematic.

Also as you have no displays you could not have selected you machines title from the pascal board list, so the game board wouldn't be active yet.

If nobody is close to you I can test your displays on my Cleopatra & if any of the displays have bad I.C's or Transistors, I do have parts here to fix them.

Do the voltages check out?

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Gottelib System 1 blues...

 

Hey man,

 

There is G.I. on the playfield so I reckon it’s not stuck on tilt. I also took @wiredoug advice and forced the relay switches but it didn’t seem to make a difference.

 

You are a legend for offering help, I actually own a Sinbad at work and that’s a great idea to test the displays. I’m assuming by plugging it in to another working machine it won’t cause any damage?

 

 

Cheers!

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Aussie Arcade

Edited by Muzac
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Gottelib System 1 blues...

 

Forgot to add, I checked the power supply voltages during the cleaning and stripping stage and they seemed to be correct.

 

After I’ve tested the displays at work I’ll check it all again. [emoji106]

Edited by Muzac
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Is it stuck on "TILT" because if it is there would be no G.I on the playfield or flippers. System 1 tilts & slam tilts can be problematic.

Also as you have no displays you could not have selected you machines title from the pascal board list, so the game board wouldn't be active yet.

If nobody is close to you I can test your displays on my Cleopatra & if any of the displays have bad I.C's or Transistors, I do have parts here to fix them.

Do the voltages check out?

 

....not true about the GI lights and TILT

....mentioned in post #5 .

maybe you mean switched illumination?

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Here's a tip for all. Get the machine working electrically before tearing it to bits. Main reason for this is so you know it isn't something you have done wrong in the assembly and it isn't a problem the machine had prior.

Once you start knowing the era of machines you are working on, this becomes less important.

To many noobs presume they will find the faults when disassembling. This is rarely the case unless you know exactly what you are doing. If the machine does need a tear down and you are learning, start doing portions of the machine testing the working machine prior to starting on a portion and once that portion is done, retest the machine. That will confirm what you have just done is all correct. Once you see that portion of your work still has the machine working, move on to the next.

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UPDATE:

 

Took all the displays into work and tested them on my Sinbad. They basically don’t work. ☹️

 

The only one that illuminated very briefly burned out a filament and all the displays stopped working. [emoji33]

 

The fuse had blown so I replaced it but now displays 1 (this was the test plug) & 4 are faint and not showing a proper score, displays 2 and 3 are also a bit faint. The pic kinda shows what they are doing.

 

Sigh, so I’m guessing as well as a fuse it took out a transistor or the like? Can anyone streamline the process by pointing me in the right direction re the chain of components to check?

 

Also, because Sinbad is at work, I’d rather have it as an illuminated ornament then a cold lump of metal. Is it a bad idea to leave it on? Will it do the displays any damage?

 

Cheers!IMG_3391.thumb.jpg.13cfd2fb4f3bbccd334120d572000bb0.jpg

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Aussie Arcade

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I'm sure there is a way to refurb those Gottlieb displays using a 9 volt battery when they get dull like that. Sorry, I can't remember where I read it but it was on AA somewhere. I think @BigTrev was mentioning it. I'm no use because when I was working on series 1 Gottliebs, we had boxes of brand new displays and that was how we fixed them being the Gottlieb importer.
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Thanks mate, I read about that also. They have been fine until the Dragon display blew today so I’m hoping it’s a shorted component on the Sinbad driver board....🤞

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Aussie Arcade

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oh yay here we go. um .. what?

 

...and rich is now sending me delightful pm's. can anyone else remember? " the time someone on AA suggested (I) put on dark clothes and go play on the freeway at night." ?

 

i cant ? is it amusing? is it because you were wrong? I dont really know?

 

ok well.. anyway im sorry but I really dont care dude. ill always correct misinformation if i see it. Its not personal. Its facts. Data.. info .. its what i do.

 

you shouldnt be personal either. its bad manners. dont pm me again.

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Settle down both of you. I like to read what you both have to have say and I'm sure between the 3 of us, as we are the only ones to respond to poor @Musac so far, he will get his machine up and running. @Rich , I've been corrected more times than I can remember on the site. No worries, all part of the learning process. I learn something I was wrong about and I learn correctly. Hell, been working on these US pieces of shit for a couple of decades and they still have the ability to make a fool of me.

I misquote something and I am glad someone here corrects me. Good, I now know what is right. Move on and hope I learn something else today.

Keep up the good work both of you aye.

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Gottelib System 1 blues...

 

UPDATE:

 

Ok so I’ve managed to do some troubleshooting and I think I get what’s going on.

 

After testing the Dragon displays in my Sinbad (where one caused a short and blew a fuse) I have had a closer look. The filaments in that display have all broken. I have also noticed that two of the displays in my Sinbad have now also got some broken filaments. [emoji33] I’m assuming this means they are screwed.....

 

I installed the Pascal P1 - 1 x 4 in my Sinbad and none of the displays worked. I’m really hoping it’s only the fuse that’s stopping the show as you predicted @wiredoug. I bought some today and will test when I get a chance.

 

By testing the displays on Sinbad I think have also blown something on the Rottendog power supply as the A2J3 voltages are all over the place. If these are accurate I’m thinking it’s been burning through the filaments as it was on for a while after the short. FYI I used pin 5 on A2J3 as ground for the HV section and the backbox for the rest.

 

69v - 100.6

42v - 82.4

8v - 1.73

4v - 3.74

 

Any help would be gratefully received! Z

 

(NB: I started a separate thread in order to keep the two issues/machines apart but I’ve since realised that not only are they directly related but it is annoying and counterproductive to anyone who wishes to help. Apologies, if I can figure out how to delete the other thread I will. Thanks for your response and schematic @Limorange ......)

 

IMG_3400.thumb.jpg.3ca10f57fc1eb71e4159febd28656d7d.jpgIMG_3401.thumb.jpg.8feba705233c17cb523a1af431185993.jpg

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Aussie Arcade

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i have seen this once before when someone decided it would be ok to put two 110v transformers in series instead of buying 230v ones.

 

it kind of works but they're mismatched so the small one runs hot and you get .. well .. this.

 

the transformers will have part numbers on them. what are they?

 

- - - Updated - - -

 

fuse is here

https://www.flippp.fr/spare.php

pull it out and check it like any other fuse.

butcher the dead one and use the base to make a "ghetto hack" with a 3ag holder if want.

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