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The Future of the MGL


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A thought occurred to me a few days ago that the main reason I haven't played in a MGL yet is that most of the games are not games I grew up with, and was thinking about looking in to possibly running a very back to basics honesty system (screen shots only ) on a set of maybe 5 to 10 games from the late 80s to mid 90s maybe of one manufatutre. what are people think of that idea?
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When did MGL become so serious?

 

Only recently when it was spread from it's roots at AA to now encompass TG and apparently the whole world, AA now just features at the bottom of the banner with TG at the top :(

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When did MGL become so serious?

 

When Twin Galaxies, large cash prizes, and heaps more Arcade Elite got involved is when it became more serious I guess.

 

Maybe a Minor League MGL ? End of a season, the top performers from the minor league get promoted to the Worlds (if they want), and the bottom guys in the Worlds go back to the minor leagues :)

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Or somebody could step up and run an old school comp and take the pressure off OOO.

When did MGL become so serious?

 

Shirley you cant be serious....

 

I guess if you have a good thing, people enjoy it then you start to attract better players who want to beat each other while enjoying the banter that goes along with it. Snowball kinda thing

 

A lot like the early pinball comps used to be, a brew and a giggle, then someone turned up with a rule book and a roll of blue tape...

 

I still think the growth is a great thing, just need to manage it going foward

 

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Aussie Arcade

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iv been apart now of the MGL for almost 2 years and I love it even the games I don't I enjoy because I'm discovering new games I never new as a kid but the main thing that attracted to me about this competions was the honest policy take a screenshot and post so far I have not felt that anyone has cheated and I would hate to have to submit inps but with cash prizes it does bring trouble but I'm sure ooo will handle it and make the right decisions for everyone for the best video game tournament in the world

 

Sent from my SM-G950F using Aussie Arcade mobile app

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In the week since this thread has been posted at least 15 people have posted sharing their thoughts about the current state of the MGL

 

My summary of discussions

 

1. Everyone acknowledges the good work OOO has done running the MGL

 

2. Many are concerned that larger prizes and world wide promotion will possibly jeopardize the legitimacy of screen shot submissions.

 

3. Most seem to want to keep screen shots.

 

4. Some people don't want to play TG dips.

 

 

 

 

I hope @OOO finds the time to join in the conversation and share his opinion on these concerns.

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In the week since this thread has been posted at least 15 people have posted sharing their thoughts about the current state of the MGL

 

My summary of discussions

 

1. Everyone acknowledges the good work OOO has done running the MGL

 

2. Many are concerned that larger prizes and world wide promotion will possibly jeopardize the legitimacy of screen shot submissions.

 

3. Most seem to want to keep screen shots.

 

4. Some people don't want to play TG dips.

 

I hope @OOO finds the time to join in the conversation and share his opinion on these concerns.

 

1. I read as best as I could the 32 posts in this thread after updating all the scores on AA tonight. I have also received many PMs and read many posts like these over the last 5 years. One message I received as feedback is that I can't make everyone happy. I just try my best for the video gaming community.

 

2. Yes it is possible someone may cheat, perhaps more than before with prize money, but screenshots are screenshots. I think that for someone to cheat for a whole season of 33 weeks for the prize money will be found out by the MGL community. The penalty for the culprit will be extremely serious.

 

3. For the WCEII season, which is 4 x MGLs in 2018, the future is screenshots for the season. I have received many PMs to only accept inps, however for this season there will be no change.

 

4. And some people do. This is a mixed bag of feedback. Some gamers enjoy a shorter game and the challenge if the game is harder, others don't. Not all TG games are harder settings. The question why TG settings is so that gamers can play in the MGL and also submit their scores for the same effort on the world stage. If you don't want to submit to TG fine. If you do want to submit to TG, well that's great as you can be recognised by the gaming community for your game play, whether it is 1st place or 50th place on the scoreboard. We can even see your game play like the arcade days and enjoy learning how to play. The settings are the same for everyone in the MGL, it's a level playing field, so try your best.

 

For the long term future, it is very difficult to determine now. We are in the digital age where social media and technology are changing rapidly. Many years ago it was Grand Prix Points. What did I think this would change to back then, I did not know. Then came percentage system and afterward the current incremental system. Will we need inps in future or Twitch broadcasts as well or only in future with dips shown before you start, it is very difficult to forecast at this stage.

 

We'll see ... :)

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Thanks for the detailed reply OOO.

 

You have certainly driven participation in the MGL further than what it has ever been.

 

But IMO it has also strayed from it's original intent at the same time.

 

If you do decide to use inps in future I would also like to see you change the name of the comp to something other than MGL and give that name back to AA.

 

I have no doubt that many more people will enjoy your comp ongoing than an old style MGL just held here with default dips. Perhaps we would not even get it up and running as it was again.

But I would like to see the option of us doing so.

Having your comp and an old school comp just for AA running in between times would give everyone the best of both worlds and choices :)

 

Sent from my SM-G920I using Aussie Arcade mobile app

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This is a copy and paste of a post I put up at the end of MGL 35 scoreboard so that I could explain an earlier post that some people might have interpreted in a way I did not intend. I don't think it really adds much to the conversation here that has not been covered already but I had a request to move it here so I have, but I left it on the scoreboard page also as I assume many players won't look in here and this thread generally only interests MGL players that have been playing at Aussie Arcade long term.

 

I think what needs to happen now is this "The Future Of MGL" thread needs to be shared at TG so they can see that the changes many of them are pushing for such as INPs go against the grain of many original MGL players. I'm sure many of them would be unaware of that as they are focused on INPs and see them as normal.

 

Quote

"quote_icon.png Originally Posted by creech77 viewpost-right.pngIt's a shame there's animosity towards newer members, or members from a different country. I know I was invited by Paul through TG which I participated in at the time. As far as these games whether I'm participating in a tourney or not I normally record an INP to just try to have my best score on record. not necessarily to submit to a site. Thought it would at least be cool to go back to that recording to watch again some time. I have every intention on playing in the next MGL, and I'm sorry that some members are lacking the enjoyment that others are having.

 

No creech77 it's not that, there is no and never has been any animosity towards new members or members from a different country. The problem is a fragmentation of the competition across different forums not countries, the MGL was for MANY years a small democracy run comp for Aussie Arcade members, that welcomed new members to Aussie Arcade from anywhere.

 

Any changes to the rules, the running of the comp and who was running it would be put forward for people to comment and debate before changes were made or not. This suddenly stopped happening when OOO decided that the comp would become fragmented and run separately on different forums and it is now a dictatorship run exclusively by OOO I assume that is because it's nearly impossible to run a democracy across multiple forums. That was also never voted on but because OOO has been doing a good job, but discourages criticism, no-one is publicly bringing up these sometimes negative changes to our old comp. Previously anyone was welcome to join Aussie Arcade to join in the comp and the banter here and they did and that worked. But when the the comp became fragmented we didn't see or know many of the people who suddenly appeared on the scoreboard, they didn't join in our forum or our banter, many people here didn't like that but it was not up for negotiation as it was what OOO wanted and remains the same.

 

Same goes for TG settings of the dips, the MGL has always been for fun not for world records so there was absolutely no reason to play difficult settings that suck all the fun out of games for anyone but WR grinders. But OOO wants MGL to now be the world record comp and attract that worlds best players so that is not up for negotiation either. We used to swap around the running of the comp and people would put their hand up to run the next one, but it seems to belong to OOO now and no doubt the majority are happy with that. Many of the players at TG have been attracted there because it is a world record site so therefore there is a very different set of motivations, skill levels and expectations there that are somewhat incompatible with the way the MGL has been in the past. I can see that the MGL will continue to change to address the desires of TG members and Aussie Arcade members will have to either come along for the ride or drop out. This was also apparent when I noticed that OOO gives no mention to Aussie Arcade at all on his Facebook promotions of the MGL and only promotes TG. I enquired to OOO about that and he said that most of his FB friends are from TG. Personally I thought that was disrespectful to the Aussie Arcade roots of the MGL and I found the love for the comp slipping away further and I stopped posting scores, which is a shame, I tried and I did play a couple of games, but I just had no real desire to post the scores.

 

There has already been recent talk of INPs and I have seen one person post an INP of their score here, I assume others are probably posting INPs at TG and wherever else the comp is promoted? I would not be surprised if INPs become mandatory in the MGL future along with TG settings and perhaps even Wolfmame. The lack of these things is what attracted me to the MGL and away from TG and MARP many years ago and the casual default settings and screenshot of MGL was very refreshing. I use Groovymame on my cabs, I am not going back to Wolfmame so I don't bother with TG or MARP at all anymore. If the MGL starts to require these things which I fear it will to keep the TG crowd interested then I will have nowhere left to share my enjoyment of having a casual bash at these games and enjoying some banter with like minded people.

 

OOO has done a great job of keeping stats, I wonder how many old MGL players have left the comp as we slowly moved away from the core values of what the MGL was? I know a few.

 

Yes I know not all the old players share my views, and I don't expect those who do agree to back me up publicly as they don't want to be seen as difficult or a complainer. Now that we are the TG MGL most people will not see my comments anyway. I am not going to go on and on and keep posting about this and I would have just slunk off without this post but @creech77 made me realize that my previous comments needed clarification so as to not be incorrectly interpreted.

 

I hope I find I can get over this in the future and come back and play (if I can meet the requirements) I need to be able to put the old memories of how the MGL was behind me as that MGL is now DEAD. It would be easier for me if the name was changed going forward, but I don't expect that to happen either.

 

I know some will read this and quietly nod and some will think what is this sour old knob on about again and why does he dis the awesome OOO ?

 

So I will finish by restating that I do really appreciate and respect that OOO does a heap of great work for competitive CAG, well done OOO :cool: I just wish you had of started your own comp and invited everyone to that rather than changing our MGL into the comp that you wanted.

 

Nothing is ever perfect and those who won't change are left behind, perhaps that is my future? too old and inflexible for even classic gaming comps :rolleyes

 

 

Game on everyone, over the coming week I might find time to play a couple of games like Road Fighter and Flying Shark.

 

- - - Updated - - -

 

I just posted a link to this thread on the end of OOO's last comp post at TG. I couldn't work out how to start a new thread that anyone would see as they have archived and locked their proper forum due to infighting and left some strange hybrid that seems like a cross between facebook and a forum where people comment on someone's wall WTF? I just asked them to consider the comments of members of the original home of the MGL before asking for changes such as INPs, which yes it seems many of them are pushing for unsurprisingly.

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I'm a bit out of the loop here, but it seems to me that @OOO has been running MGL for 5 years? And in those 5 years he have looked in ways to make the tournament bigger and better. MGLXXXV was not the first tournament to be presented outside AA. I'd say it's too little too late to pull the brakes on this train? Why is this showing up now after all this time?

@OOO has put in a lot of work, and I see a lot of people on here, acknowledging his hard work and how well he runs the tournaments, so woulnd't it be tragic to take it away from him?

 

Is it out of the question to create a new casual AA only tournament that's run like the olden days? Or do you feel too big an ownership of the name to let @OOO continue to do his thing?

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Is it out of the question to create a new casual AA only tournament that's run like the olden days? Or do you feel too big an ownership of the name to let @OOO continue to do his thing?

 

I did look into this but OOO made It clear that he did not support the idea and I did not want to proceed without his ok

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Was it because @OOO was to run the new AA only casual league too? Or why can't the site have 2 leagues? @Rat mentioned somewhere else that MGL used to be run by different people?

 

It did used to be run by different people, I'll add my 2 cents for now; I may possibly have more to say that what I'm going to say right now. @sp3ctr3 - this post is not aimed at you, I'm simply replying to your question and making comment which I'm sure everyone who has read this thread can work out who I'm replying to without me doing a massive multi-quote message :)

 

I was the last person to run it, and it was time consuming, and the effort I put in was nearly what Paul has done with it. Regardless of Twin Galaxies members being involved, he grew the MGL well before that eventuated. For personal reasons, I had to stop running - mid MGL from memory, I think a few people helped me out finish off the MGL I was running.

 

When I tried looking for another person who wanted take the reigns of the MGL - do you know how many people stuck up their hand? NONE! I can't recall if I approached Paul (OOO) or if he approached me, but I was appreciative that he took it over because no one else seemed to want to.

 

We did previously ask for feedback before starting a new MGL, I (and others who have run it) have tried lots of things to keep it fresh, try idea's from other (different pt scoring, different nomination, game selection etc) - Some things have worked extremely well, some things haven't. At the end of the day, whatever changes were made, you'd get someone offside who didn't like it.

 

No as to the negative comments regarding Twin Galaxies members playing - well I'd prefer if they would register here and join in, but it honestly doesn't worry me. I don't see a big difference between someone that posts their score on Twin Galaxies and doesn't join in here, compared to people who only post a score here but other than that don't join in the banter. It's not mandatory, play and comment as you see fit. I do not see Twin Galaxies as being "shady"- yes some things were wrong, but if anything, Twin Galaxies in the last 12 months has shown an absolute zero tolerance for cheats - two of the biggest names on their database have been removed - if that is not taking scorekeeping seriously, then I don't know what is.

 

[

]I couldn't work out how to start a new thread that anyone would see as they have archived and locked their proper forum due to infighting

 

I'm not sure where you came up with this assumption from, it is not the case. Perhaps it is a way to make Twin Galaxies and their members (or which I and may AA'ers are members) into some kind of evil boogie men hell bent on bringing down the MGL just to spite you. I don't like that Twin Galaxies did away with the forums, but they opted for the Facebook Style wall posting and that is their choice - it has sweet FA to do with infighting. I see more infighting on AA than I've ever seen on Twin Galaxies, particularly in some forum sections that will remain nameless - we all know where most of the trouble stems from.

 

On the subject of INP files - they have never been required, and honestly, I can't see them ever being required. Just because Twin Galaxies people have been invited to join our fun, it does not suddenly mean this will be required. Running an MGL is a big enough proposition without people having to verify INP's let along looking at each game play to make sure nothing wrong (leeching/banned tactics/not playing within the spirit) was being used. I haven't read every comment in here, nor have I read too much regarding the MGL on Twin Galaxies, but if someone could point me in the direction of those people demanding INPs be required I'd like to read their reasoning.

 

Onto Twin Galaxies DIP switches - yes it's true, they do suck the life out of some games, but I've found that to be an absolute minority. I think I was the first to try introducing Twin Galaxies DIP settings and one of the first games we played under these rules was Tutankam - ok, you've got me there - it ruined that particular game. If anyone has the time, can they please go back through every game in the MGL where we have played under TG settings where it has ruined the game? I can't think of many. Yes some games like Bomb Jack might be a bit easier on "default" settings, but I wouldn't go as far as to saying it ruined the game. The last MGL, there were comments over Wonderboy being played on Easy and Hard - really? I've played both settings now and don't find much of a difference, certainly nothing that ruins the experience. Now if you were someone going for world records on the arcade track which is the Easy setting, well yeah, you have to change your game play a little bit - but that is it.

 

World records - does it really matter if world class players are playing? Does it really matter if some of us like comparing ourselves to the world's best. How does it take from your enjoyment of a game if I want to post my score on Twin Galaxies? Play, have fun, do your best. Do you know how many MGL's I've won or placed top 3 in - I'm told I've played 20 straight now - I've won ZERO, I've placed in the top 3 ZERO times. That includes the old days before Twin Galaxies when we maybe had only 10-12 people who played every game. Did I cry that other people were taking it too seriously? No.

 

Anyway, I've said more than I wanted to.

 

One last one - it Paul says today - that's it, I've had enough. Who honestly would stick their hand up and take it over? There is so much negativity but at the end of the day, it seems to be a case of I'd do it if I had the time, or I'd play more if I had the time and not enough appreciation for what we have going here.

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One last one - it Paul says today - that's it, I've had enough. Who honestly would stick their hand up and take it over? There is so much negativity but at the end of the day, it seems to be a case of I'd do it if I had the time, or I'd play more if I had the time and not enough appreciation for what we have going here.

 

What negativity?

People raising concerns is not negativity.

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What negativity?

People raising concerns is not negativity.

 

Clearly we have different ideas of what is "raising concerns" and "negativity".

 

Raising a concern, and harping on and on and on about it like a broken record when you don't get your way I would class as negativity. :)

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Clearly we have different ideas of what is "raising concerns" and "negativity".

 

Raising a concern, and harping on and on and on about it like a broken record when you don't get your way I would class as negativity. :)

 

About what exactly? I'm not up to date with silly behind the scenes politics which is why I posted the question. People these days focus far to much on one or 2 negative things rather than the overwhelmingly good.

I'd be very annoyed if an AA institution like the MGL is being pushed off site.

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About what exactly? I'm not up to date with silly behind the scenes politics which is why I posted the question. People these days focus far to much on one or 2 negative things rather than the overwhelmingly good.

I'd be very annoyed if an AA institution like the MGL is being pushed off site.

 

It's far from being pushed off site afaik - Paul has simply encouraged others, namely Twin Galaxies members, to participate but without them being required to become members of AA. To their credit, I think there are a lot of new members on AA who have come across and do join in.

 

Like I said in my post, when I wasn't doing well, I had to stop running the MGL - maybe I did a good job, and okay job or a crap job - but when it came time for someone else, a current player of the MGL is the logical choice to take over, to stick up their hand and run the show - no one was too be seen. Paul was not an MGL player, he was an avid gamer who loves classic gaming - he took over and has taken this competition in a direction that some are clearly not happy with - that's fine, say it once and then move on, but if you are someone who never stuck up your hand to take over when it looked like the MGL was going to go into hibernation without someone to run it, well, I find it a bit rich to complain.

 

I am well aware of Rat's "concerns" - I have read them ad nauseam. He says that others have contacted him regarding the direction that the MGL is going and that they don't like it also - to those people, feel free to contact me personally if you don't want your comments public or to look like you are whinging. I guarantee to listen and discuss, and I will not make your comments public to anyone; much as I would not openly name they many people who have conveyed to me that they are sick of this broken record getting played over how OOO runs the MGL.

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It's far from being pushed off site afaik - Paul has simply encouraged others, namely Twin Galaxies members, to participate but without them being required to become members of AA. To their credit, I think there are a lot of new members on AA who have come across and do join in.

 

Like I said in my post, when I wasn't doing well, I had to stop running the MGL - maybe I did a good job, and okay job or a crap job - but when it came time for someone else, a current player of the MGL is the logical choice to take over, to stick up their hand and run the show - no one was too be seen. Paul was not an MGL player, he was an avid gamer who loves classic gaming - he took over and has taken this competition in a direction that some are clearly not happy with - that's fine, say it once and then move on, but if you are someone who never stuck up your hand to take over when it looked like the MGL was going to go into hibernation without someone to run it, well, I find it a bit rich to complain.

 

I am well aware of Rat's "concerns" - I have read them ad nauseam. He says that others have contacted him regarding the direction that the MGL is going and that they don't like it also - to those people, feel free to contact me personally if you don't want your comments public or to look like you are whinging. I guarantee to listen and discuss, and I will not make your comments public to anyone; much as I would not openly name they many people who have conveyed to me that they are sick of this broken record getting played over how OOO runs the MGL.

 

Thanks for clearing that up, that's all I wanted to know, like you said OOO was the only one who put his hand up after you stepped down. I think everybody would agree you did a bang up job running the MGL.

 

I'd rather not get involved with MGL affairs however I don't see an issue on having a small traditional comp on the side for those who want it which @loki4101 put his hand up to run.

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@John73

 

I think you're over-reacting a bit here. you've put a negative spin on rat's comments and if you read them, Rat's comments are genuine and they are respectful. your responses and your words (ad-nauseum, broken record, and other things you've said) hmm, not so much.

 

When I used to run the MGL (before handing it off to you, you might recall) I have to put my hand up and say guilty! i first introduced using TG dips But it didn't last long, cause people didn't like it, it got voted out. (far as i recall...) that's just one of rat's points, things aren't discussed any more. Personally i think that one is a moot point now though, as the MGL has grown so much it would be impossible to involve everyone.

 

@Rat, correct me if I'm wrong... but the way I see it, your'e saying that the current comp is not the MGL as we know it ? I'd have to agree as it is now labelled as the World Championship of e-sports. (which is pretty awesome that there is a comp like that for arcade gaming now.)

 

So maybe given the MGL as it used to be doesn't exist... it has grown and morphed into something else that is also run on other sites that include non-AA members....isn't the main point of this discussion simply calling the current comp what it is? What's the big deal.... Why not just rename it and have done with it, and then also run a comp for casual gamers as the MGL ? There's already one person (loki) who's put their hand up.

 

Paul has done an amazing, amazing job with this comp. His passion and his dedication is beyond reproach and he does everything with humour and expertise and awesome knowledge. And the reason he would never play full time in a comp is he would probably win it :) But there definitely is room for two comps if that's what people want. I would put my hand up to play in the casual comp as i only play now and again and on 'fun' settings it's something i'd enjoy more.

 

Just my opinion, and would love to hear more opinions.

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@John73

 

I think you're over-reacting a bit here. you've put a negative spin on rat's comments and if you read them, Rat's comments are genuine and they are respectful. your responses and your words (ad-nauseum, broken record, and other things you've said) hmm, not so much.

 

When I used to run the MGL (before handing it off to you, you might recall) I have to put my hand up and say guilty! i first introduced using TG dips But it didn't last long, cause people didn't like it, it got voted out. (far as i recall...) that's just one of rat's points, things aren't discussed any more. Personally i think that one is a moot point now though, as the MGL has grown so much it would be impossible to involve everyone.

 

@Rat, correct me if I'm wrong... but the way I see it, your'e saying that the current comp is not the MGL as we know it ? I'd have to agree as it is now labelled as the World Championship of e-sports. (which is pretty awesome that there is a comp like that for arcade gaming now.)

 

So maybe given the MGL as it used to be doesn't exist... it has grown and morphed into something else that is also run on other sites that include non-AA members....isn't the main point of this discussion simply calling the current comp what it is? What's the big deal.... Why not just rename it and have done with it, and then also run a comp for casual gamers as the MGL ? There's already one person (loki) who's put their hand up.

 

Paul has done an amazing, amazing job with this comp. His passion and his dedication is beyond reproach and he dies everything with humour and expertise and awesome knowledge. And the reason he would never play full time in a comp is he would probably win it :) But there definitely is room for two comps if that's what people want. I would put my hand up to play in the casual comp as i only play now and again and on 'fun' settings it's something i'd enjoy more.

 

Just my opinion, and would love to hear more opinions.

 

While you might see them as genuine and respectful, I would say the same thing if they were said once and left at that. They haven't been. I do not have the time or energy at this very moment to go back through past MGL's where he has had a gripe one way or another over how things are being run - but I will if you like.

 

I will now go into my own ad nauseum mode - I asked for others to take over, and no one wanted to do it from the current players. No one was willing to stick up their hand and do it. I want it run this way, but I don't want to run it - I'm over it.

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As you have probably seen, I was the one that started this thread.

I am a bit disappointed in the direction it has gone in now.

 

If you haven't read it yet, please read my first post in this thread. My original intention for the thread was different to what it has turned out to be.

 

I really only wanted to ensure we all play on a level playing field. The Track n Field game highlighted the issue with dips that would otherwise have gone unnoticed on most other games.

 

We have a great competition run by a dedicated gamer. I hope the discussion around him being a 'dictator' and trying to own the competition doesn't turn him off in the future.

 

I think the MGL section is the best part of Aussie Arcade.

Let's just play some games.

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