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Transport Alternatives - Post Prowler?


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Yes I agree with you. Even if there were some of us out there from different cities that wanted to do a regular trip in a direction from where we lived to make up a regular map for pick ups and deliveries. Maybe even someone who didn’t want to drive from Qld to Melb, they could meet half way if that’s what they wanted to do on a regular basis. It sounds a bit complex, but if there were regulars, it could work. Most probably it would be weekend work if people had to work during the week.

 

 

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Pre - prowler days I've almost all of the time used furniture/removalists as opposed to general cartage freighters for the following reasons we have all known about before:

 

FF use a lot of manual handling and wrapping in blankets then strapping with either ramps or tailgate lift and generally have access to midsize rigid trucks better suit to access cul-de-sacs/laneways etc.

 

GC on a pallet with multiple forklift operations in a busy environment with no opportunity for them to double stack (like pallets of Coca-Cola) it makes a difficult slot in a 22 pallet truck = price goes up because of double/triple handling to off load onto a smaller delivery van to get to you which in turn multiplies the risk of damage.

 

I've used in the past;

 

Tea tree gully removals in SA to get an IJ from Adelaide. That was about 10 years ago - not sure what they are like now but great then.

 

Mullumbimby removals http://mullumbimbyremovals.com.au/ The guys were really good with wrapping packing and on time.

 

Also used these guys about 10 years ago to get a Gilligans down from the gold coast. again not sure what there service is like now but it was good way back when. https://caloundraremovals.com.au/

 

Just a start.

Edited by Railways
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lol pinball people...you lot sure have been spoiled stupid by prowler. make sure you look at both sides.

 

no real commercial operator is going to give you consistent interstate timed drop door to door white glove tailgate service for a couple hundred bucks on a single pallet. Its not viable business.

 

consider "maybe we're asking too much" as a comparison to "maybe they arent reliable". its one pissy little pallet space of general freight to these guys.

 

You're not special, you're not important, its not a precious baby or a high priority critical thing to them .. you're just another box they have to drop off...

 

if they say ok its 300k ill be there in 3 hours then an hour later they get done by the rms for a random inspection then they end up out of hours on the log book their world doesnt end... they just go to bed and you miss out.

 

Welcome to transport.

 

Nah, don't buy it. We all know how crap transport companies are in general (I deal with them every day), but this blaming the victim mentality is bullshit. These guys don't deserve to be in business and have NFI how to run one.

 

I don't give a sh*t how busy you are, how hard is it to keep a list of your jobs and shoot someone a text if you're unreasonably late (like More than 24 hours) or at the very least let someone know if you're not coming at all and have cancelled the job. Or if even that's not possible, at the very very least, how hard is it to answer the phone?

 

 

Prowlers level of service was great, but should be a minimum for any business. It's pretty simple. Just don't Piss off your customers and you're half way there.

 

This mentality is all too common in this country, but mostly in service/trades industries where there is more demand than supply. And because of this, the arrogance and ineptitude goes largely unpunished because there's enough new customers to keep the business going. They don't need to give AF about keeping old customers.

 

What pisses me off even more is it's the same trades/services who give crap service and charge top dollar, that then go and complain how expensive everything else is in Australia. Don't need to look any further than you're own back yard.

 

 

 

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A reliable source said Prowler wasn't making money out of running the service

Fuel

Repairs

Vehicle payments

Etc

 

So he has taken up a full time job driving semi's interstate and walked away from his former life.

 

Sometimes I feel the same way, you get days with problems and you get frustrated and need a break

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A reliable source said Prowler wasn't making money out of running the service

Fuel

Repairs

Vehicle payments

Etc

 

So he has taken up a full time job driving semi's interstate and walked away from his former life.

 

Sometimes I feel the same way, you get days with problems and you get frustrated and need a break

 

exactly, i complained a few times about the price! way to cheap!

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I've said it in this thread before but: Increase the price to make it viable. Transport companies charge ~$200-250 depot to depot (say Syd - Melb). Prowler would often do a similar price door to door. Not sustainable.

 

Charge $400 (or whatever it needs to be) and everyone who wants white glove service will use that, everyone else who is price sensitive can use transport companies. A lot of it comes down to the difference between wage earners and business owners and a lack of experience of the former trying to become the latter.

 

A good profit margin for most businesses is 30%, however a lot of small businesses in particular operate on margins between 10-20%. That means for an owner operator, you need to be able to turn over (charge your clients) 3-10x your current wage before you will earn what you do currently. Most wage earners who buy themselves a job take between 1-3 years to realise that they're worse off than they were before, and you can earn the same or very slightly less working for someone else, with zero stress.

 

Here's a just off the top of my head never worked in transport budget:

 

Lets base it on the following scenario....

 

- We're going to run east coast to keep it simple, Melb -> Syd -> Melb and we're going to do it sedately because there is no point dying over a job.

- So we're going to do 1 run a week, which is day of pickups in Melb, then a day of driving to Sydney. Drop offs and pickups in Sydney the next day. Drive back to Melbourne, drop offs next day. Gives us two days

off a week. I know this schedule would never fly in transport but lets use this as a best case scenario

- We're going to do this 48 weeks of the year because you deserve a holiday once in a while.

- I'll use an Iveco Daily as an example because we want to get there alive and do it in comfort - the 70C can hold 12 NIB games on their back (I'm not going to mention the gear you can fit on top, which is a lot),

12 DMDs on their back

- That equates to roughly 1800km per week in round trip, plus 150km of running around at either end. So 2100km a week. Or 100800km a year. I can't find an efficiency rating but I'll assuming weighing 3 tonnes its going to be around the 10-12L / 100km mark, so lets go with the high end. 12L / 100km. 12096L X 1.60 / L = $19353, so lets just round up to $20k.

- Huge assumption - there is enough business available to make this viable between only Sydney and Melbourne.

 

**** Costs ****

 

Iveco Daily 70C 20 and options (75k) + tail lift (5k) $80k interest at 7.4% = $1600 a month over 5 years, $19200 - again lets round up to $20k.

Fuel = $20k

Salary $60k (+ super + workers comp + overheads = 72k)

Maintenance / Tyres annual $20k (I'm making this one up, no idea what it costs, but it sounds right)

Books / Admin / Misc $20k

Insurances (includes truck, income protection) $5k

Rego and greenslip $2k

Tax prep (trust audit, and tax return) $3k annually.

Bank fees annually $500

Eftpos facility $600

Phone bills $1200

 

= $164300

 

+ Contingency 10%

 

= $180730

 

You also have these one time setup costs, and I'm sure there would be more:

 

One time setup of trust $1500

Tools of the trade:

- stair master, $3k

- decent furniture trolley, $300

- pinball trolley, $450

- blankets and tie-downs, $1000 but you'll need to put money aside for losses

 

= $6250

 

********************

 

Now we've got a rough estimate on what we need to pay ourselves $60k a year before tax: approx $180k in revenue. How much do we need to transport pins for given our van can fit 12 at a time? (16 for older games, but I'm going with 12 as I'm assuming mostly DMD or newer games will be sent 'white glove'.

 

We divide the total of $180k by 48 weeks of the year and we come to: $3475 per week. A full load for 48 weeks of the year means it would come out to $144 per pin. However a full load for every week of the year is unrealistic, and we need to apply a load factor, I'm going to use occupancy stats from my business but also the hotel industry which I've got NFI if it applies to transport but it sounds right.

 

60% load factor (loads on average are 60% full every week of the year) would mean average return load of 14.4 pins a trip, or $241 a trip. I'd add a further margin to cover losses of $60 a machine, and I'd make everyone take out their own insurance if they want it. All care, no responsibility.

 

$300 door to door Melb to Syd and vice versa under ideal conditions

 

Like I said at the start, we have to assume that we can get a van 60% full for 48 weeks of the year in order for this to work, so that is 14.4 pins going between Melb and Sydney every week. If as I suspect there are huge dead times of the year, Christmas to Easter for example, the price has to go up.

 

By doing this exercise you can see how much Prowler was undercharging.

 

The real cost of white gloving a pin door to door Sydney to Melbourne on a dedicated service is probably $350-$400 a pin. Which means, the furniture removal guys are probably priced in the same ball park, and freight depot to depot should be half (or less) the cost. I had to make a few assumptions obviously, but I'm probably not far off.

 

*** edit ***

 

I left out accommodation at the Sydney end, I was thinking about it but forgot to put it in. $100 / day, $200 / week, 48 weeks of the year $9600. Increases the total cost by $14 / pin. Which you could either absorb with your contingency, or your $60 handling fee. Or you could just bang it on top - whatever.

Edited by sleazius
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I've said it in this thread before but: Increase the price to make it viable. Transport companies charge ~$200-250 depot to depot (say Syd - Melb). Prowler would often do a similar price door to door. Not sustainable.

 

Charge $400 (or whatever it needs to be) and everyone who wants white glove service will use that, everyone else who is price sensitive can use transport companies. A lot of it comes down to the difference between wage earners and business owners and a lack of experience of the former trying to become the latter.

 

A good profit margin for most businesses is 30%, however a lot of small businesses in particular operate on margins between 10-20%. That means for an owner operator, you need to be able to turn over (charge your clients) 3-10x your current wage before you will earn what you do currently. Most wage earners who buy themselves a job take between 1-3 years to realise that they're worse off than they were before, and you can earn the same or very slightly less working for someone else, with zero stress.

 

Here's a just off the top of my head never worked in transport budget:

 

Lets base it on the following scenario....

 

- We're going to run east coast to keep it simple, Melb -> Syd -> Melb and we're going to do it sedately because there is no point dying over a job.

- So we're going to do 1 run a week, which is day of pickups in Melb, then a day of driving to Sydney. Drop offs and pickups in Sydney the next day. Drive back to Melbourne, drop offs next day. Gives us two days

off a week. I know this schedule would never fly in transport but lets use this as a best case scenario

- We're going to do this 48 weeks of the year because you deserve a holiday once in a while.

- I'll use an Iveco Daily as an example because we want to get there alive and do it in comfort - the 70C can hold 12 NIB games on their back (I'm not going to mention the gear you can fit on top, which is a lot),

12 DMDs on their back

- That equates to roughly 1800km per week in round trip, plus 150km of running around at either end. So 2100km a week. Or 100800km a year. I can't find an efficiency rating but I'll assuming weighing 3 tonnes its going to be around the 10-12L / 100km mark, so lets go with the high end. 12L / 100km. 12096L X 1.60 / L = $19353, so lets just round up to $20k.

- Huge assumption - there is enough business available to make this viable between only Sydney and Melbourne.

 

**** Costs ****

 

Iveco Daily 70C 20 and options (75k) + tail lift (5k) $80k interest at 7.4% = $1600 a month over 5 years, $19200 - again lets round up to $20k.

Fuel = $20k

Salary $60k (+ super + workers comp + overheads = 72k)

Maintenance / Tyres annual $20k (I'm making this one up, no idea what it costs, but it sounds right)

Books / Admin / Misc $20k

Insurances (includes truck, income protection) $5k

Rego and greenslip $2k

Tax prep (trust audit, and tax return) $3k annually.

Bank fees annually $500

Eftpos facility $600

Phone bills $1200

 

= $164300

 

+ Contingency 10%

 

= $180730

 

You also have these one time setup costs, and I'm sure there would be more:

 

One time setup of trust $1500

Tools of the trade:

- stair master, $3k

- decent furniture trolley, $300

- pinball trolley, $450

- blankets and tie-downs, $1000 but you'll need to put money aside for losses

 

= $6250

 

********************

 

Now we've got a rough estimate on what we need to pay ourselves $60k a year before tax: approx $180k in revenue. How much do we need to transport pins for given our van can fit 12 at a time? (16 for older games, but I'm going with 12 as I'm assuming mostly DMD or newer games will be sent 'white glove'.

 

We divide the total of $180k by 48 weeks of the year and we come to: $3475 per week. A full load for 48 weeks of the year means it would come out to $144 per pin. However a full load for every week of the year is unrealistic, and we need to apply a load factor, I'm going to use occupancy stats from my business but also the hotel industry which I've got NFI if it applies to transport but it sounds right.

 

60% load factor (loads on average are 60% full every week of the year) would mean average return load of 14.4 pins a trip, or $241 a trip. I'd add a further margin to cover losses of $60 a machine, and I'd make everyone take out their own insurance if they want it. All care, no responsibility.

 

$300 door to door Melb to Syd and vice versa under ideal conditions

 

Like I said at the start, we have to assume that we can get a van 60% full for 48 weeks of the year in order for this to work, so that is 14.4 pins going between Melb and Sydney every week. If as I suspect there are huge dead times of the year, Christmas to Easter for example, the price has to go up.

 

By doing this exercise you can see how much Prowler was undercharging.

 

The real cost of white gloving a pin door to door Sydney to Melbourne on a dedicated service is probably $350-$400 a pin. Which means, the furniture removal guys are probably priced in the same ball park, and freight depot to depot should be half (or less) the cost. I had to make a few assumptions obviously, but I'm probably not far off.

 

Spot on I reckon. Now you've done the business plan, you may as well start the business. [emoji120]

 

 

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Just booked Caloundra Removals. Gold Coast to Townsville $440. It was the cheapest I could find. Will arrive next week so I’ll let you know how they are.

 

 

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Out of curiosity. Did you try Overland freight as I mentioned earlier?. Cost $600 for 2 pins townsville to South brisvegas and well wrapped.

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Out of curiosity. Did you try Overland freight as I mentioned earlier?. Cost $600 for 2 pins townsville to South brisvegas and well wrapped.

 

Mate called them, emailed them they didn’t get back. Most companies wanted an extra $150 to pickup from the GoldCoast which I totally understand. End of the day I’m happy to have a door service that pretty quick.

 

 

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I've said it in this thread before but: Increase the price to make it viable. Transport companies charge ~$200-250 depot to depot (say Syd - Melb). Prowler would often do a similar price door to door. Not sustainable.

 

Charge $400 (or whatever it needs to be) and everyone who wants white glove service will use that, everyone else who is price sensitive can use transport companies. A lot of it comes down to the difference between wage earners and business owners and a lack of experience of the former trying to become the latter.

 

A good profit margin for most businesses is 30%, however a lot of small businesses in particular operate on margins between 10-20%. That means for an owner operator, you need to be able to turn over (charge your clients) 3-10x your current wage before you will earn what you do currently. Most wage earners who buy themselves a job take between 1-3 years to realise that they're worse off than they were before, and you can earn the same or very slightly less working for someone else, with zero stress.

 

Here's a just off the top of my head never worked in transport budget:

 

Lets base it on the following scenario....

 

- We're going to run east coast to keep it simple, Melb -> Syd -> Melb and we're going to do it sedately because there is no point dying over a job.

- So we're going to do 1 run a week, which is day of pickups in Melb, then a day of driving to Sydney. Drop offs and pickups in Sydney the next day. Drive back to Melbourne, drop offs next day. Gives us two days

off a week. I know this schedule would never fly in transport but lets use this as a best case scenario

- We're going to do this 48 weeks of the year because you deserve a holiday once in a while.

- I'll use an Iveco Daily as an example because we want to get there alive and do it in comfort - the 70C can hold 12 NIB games on their back (I'm not going to mention the gear you can fit on top, which is a lot),

12 DMDs on their back

- That equates to roughly 1800km per week in round trip, plus 150km of running around at either end. So 2100km a week. Or 100800km a year. I can't find an efficiency rating but I'll assuming weighing 3 tonnes its going to be around the 10-12L / 100km mark, so lets go with the high end. 12L / 100km. 12096L X 1.60 / L = $19353, so lets just round up to $20k.

- Huge assumption - there is enough business available to make this viable between only Sydney and Melbourne.

 

**** Costs ****

 

Iveco Daily 70C 20 and options (75k) + tail lift (5k) $80k interest at 7.4% = $1600 a month over 5 years, $19200 - again lets round up to $20k.

Fuel = $20k

Salary $60k (+ super + workers comp + overheads = 72k)

Maintenance / Tyres annual $20k (I'm making this one up, no idea what it costs, but it sounds right)

Books / Admin / Misc $20k

Insurances (includes truck, income protection) $5k

Rego and greenslip $2k

Tax prep (trust audit, and tax return) $3k annually.

Bank fees annually $500

Eftpos facility $600

Phone bills $1200

 

= $164300

 

+ Contingency 10%

 

= $180730

 

You also have these one time setup costs, and I'm sure there would be more:

 

One time setup of trust $1500

Tools of the trade:

- stair master, $3k

- decent furniture trolley, $300

- pinball trolley, $450

- blankets and tie-downs, $1000 but you'll need to put money aside for losses

 

= $6250

 

********************

 

Now we've got a rough estimate on what we need to pay ourselves $60k a year before tax: approx $180k in revenue. How much do we need to transport pins for given our van can fit 12 at a time? (16 for older games, but I'm going with 12 as I'm assuming mostly DMD or newer games will be sent 'white glove'.

 

We divide the total of $180k by 48 weeks of the year and we come to: $3475 per week. A full load for 48 weeks of the year means it would come out to $144 per pin. However a full load for every week of the year is unrealistic, and we need to apply a load factor, I'm going to use occupancy stats from my business but also the hotel industry which I've got NFI if it applies to transport but it sounds right.

 

60% load factor (loads on average are 60% full every week of the year) would mean average return load of 14.4 pins a trip, or $241 a trip. I'd add a further margin to cover losses of $60 a machine, and I'd make everyone take out their own insurance if they want it. All care, no responsibility.

 

$300 door to door Melb to Syd and vice versa under ideal conditions

 

Like I said at the start, we have to assume that we can get a van 60% full for 48 weeks of the year in order for this to work, so that is 14.4 pins going between Melb and Sydney every week. If as I suspect there are huge dead times of the year, Christmas to Easter for example, the price has to go up.

 

By doing this exercise you can see how much Prowler was undercharging.

 

The real cost of white gloving a pin door to door Sydney to Melbourne on a dedicated service is probably $350-$400 a pin. Which means, the furniture removal guys are probably priced in the same ball park, and freight depot to depot should be half (or less) the cost. I had to make a few assumptions obviously, but I'm probably not far off.

 

*** edit ***

 

I left out accommodation at the Sydney end, I was thinking about it but forgot to put it in. $100 / day, $200 / week, 48 weeks of the year $9600. Increases the total cost by $14 / pin. Which you could either absorb with your contingency, or your $60 handling fee. Or you could just bang it on top - whatever.

 

That's a fair effort doing all those calculations and sums. What it does mean is that there are many costs the average person is not aware of, including me. These costs must be paid for by the consumer/customer. Either way, it's no longer 'cheap' (like Prowler was) to transport our beloved machines around the capital cities. If someone finds a suitable transport alternative, meaning the price and service are good, just make sure they let the rest of us know.

 

Very informed post mate.

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Mate called them, emailed them they didn’t get back. Most companies wanted an extra $150 to pickup from the GoldCoast which I totally understand. End of the day I’m happy to have a door service that pretty quick.

 

 

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Thats a shame they didn't get back but like you say, to the door service and quick but most of all with TLC.

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Transport Alternatives - Post Prowler?

 

We are all making it too hard here? Like I said in an earlier post, if there where a few of us out there willing to do a drive in a van on a regular basis, whether it’s borrowed, or rented, we could create a network of people to move pinnies around. Only do it it when there was five or six pins to make it viable, each way. I’m not a tech guy, but if there was a site set up on AA, or seperate to that, things could be coordinated. This is all providing that there are enough people out there that want to go for a drive every now and then. We won’t get the service that Prowler supplied, but it would still be door to door. Imagine I was in Sydney and I had time, I could do a trip to Melbourne to meet someone going to Adelaide. Or even just driving to Albury to swap with someone to go to melbourne? It sounds really complicated, but it would only take a dozen or so people all the way around the east coast to Adelaide to make it happen. It would take time to create the network, and if you had people in all cities, there is always someone to pick up machines if the seller wasn’t one of us, and needed it gone, ASAP. I’m willing to go for a drive once, or twice a month. For someone in Melbourne it’s only four hours to meet half way to Sydney. I would drive most places from here. Sydney is very central. Townsville to Brisbane, then to Sydney, there all legs that people could do? It all depends on the person doing that leg of the trip, for how long it lasts. The price would be higher, if there where more legs, because more people handled your machine and want money for that. It could probably be capped to stop rip offs. It sounds easy to me, but I suppose there is a million reasons out there from you guys to say it won’t work. I won’t take that, I want positivity to make it work. The main thing I think I’m trying to say is that it just doesn’t need to be the responsibility of one person, for money and time. If we just look at it as a hobby and people like me who really do like driving can make this work. Just my thoughts. Wazza.

 

 

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Edited by Defender
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We are all making it too hard here? Like I said in an earlier post, if there where a few of us out there willing to do a drive in a van on a regular basis, whether it’s borrowed, or rented, we could create a network of people to move pinnies around. Only do it it when there was five or six pins to make it viable, each way. I’m not a tech guy, but if there a site set up on AA, or seperate, things could be coordinated. This is all providing that there are enough people out there that want to go for a drive every now and then. We won’t get the service that Prowler supplied, but it would still be door to door. Imagine I was in Sydney and I had time, I could do a trip to Melbourne to meet someone going to Adelaide. Or even just driving to Albury to swap with someone to go to melbourne? It sounds really complicated, but it would only take a dozen, or so people all the way around the east coast to Adelaide to make it happen. It would take time to create the network, and if you had people in all cities, there is always someone to pick up machines if the seller wasn’t one of us, and needed it gone.

 

 

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Yes mate, that is what we are trying to do is create a network of trusted professional carriers with insurance. Not all of us has a Pantec to take a day trip.

 

Lets face it. prowlers rates are gone (who knows -again)

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i've been toying with the idea of letting one truck do a Mel-syd run for pinballs and arcades only for the past month

i myself haven't got the time but if i found a reliable driver with a truck licence i might give a go - i've been asked plenty of time by

the bigger operators in the business about this as most transport company's charge by cubic meter + this + that,

 

there is a lot a work out there for transport at a realistic price, the biggest problem is people don't want to work

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