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The Poor Man's DOF (Tactile Feedback)


RustyCardores

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If you like this Drunken Idea, be sure to check out my 'Virtual Pinball Toppers' at http://www.aussiearcade.com/showthread.php/83000-Virtual-Pinball-Topper

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***NEWS ALERT - December 2017***

 

We have changed our name to SSF (Surround Sound Feedback)

 

We are now on Facebook with our very own Surround Sound Feedback Group

 

 

***** JULY 2017 - NEW DEVELOPMENT!*****

 

Thanks to the efforts of DJRobX, Surround Sound is NOW AVAILABLE in VPX 10.4 Beta and some new tables have already been released to make use of this new feature, while other tables are being recoded by myself to make use of surround sound. **These recoded tables are being released at the table author's discretion, so please do not ask me for copies. Ask them and put the pressure on ;) lol ....It's important that table authors see the demand for surround coded tables.

 

VPX Surround is a game changer for PMD, as we will now be able to apply directional sound & feedback to any position on a table! I have been Beta testing this new development with my current PMD system and it is TOTALLY AMAZEBALLS!!!!

 

Those (like me) with a current "2 Amp - 4 Exciter" PMD system will be able to use this feature, provided that their sound card supports surround sound. New users yet to implement the system, may wish to consider using a single 7.1 surround sound amp or DJRobX's layout, in place of the additional subs required for PMD Mk1 (non-surround)

 

A visual representation of Surround config options...

 

PMD Mk1 (pre surround sound). Also Compatible with PMD Mk2 Surround Sound.

attachment.php?attachmentid=114430&d=1502148337

 

PMD Mk2 Surround Sound - Single Amp (expensive)

attachment.php?attachmentid=114431&d=1502148360

 

PMD Mk2 Surround Sound - Multiple Amps with Windows bass management to singular subwoofer (cheaper & can still utilise PMD Mk1 components)

attachment.php?attachmentid=115382&d=1503988784

 

**EXCITER PLACEMENT: Place them on the cab side wall close to the flipper/playfield level. Keep them about 15cm from the rigid corners of the cab. Too close and you may lose some of the vibes as the cab wall rigidity increases.

 

My links to the parts used. Please note that the Jaycar components listed here are also available in the USA....

 

2 x Lepy 838 Amps https://www.aliexpress.com and search "Lepy 838"

4 (5 if you want one under the lockdown) x 70mm Exciters https://www.jaycar.com.au/70mm-flat-panel-exciter-speaker/p/AS3039

1 x Subwoofer https://www.jaycar.com.au/4-paper-cone-woofer-midrange/p/CW2190 (or https://www.jaycar.com.au/5-paper-cone-woofer-midrange/p/CW2192 if you have space and a little more $)

Plus some speaker wire and a bit of timber to mount the audio sub (bracket it off the back of the cab or run it across from both sides... whatever works in your cab)

 

See also: http://vpuniverse.com/forums/topic/3232-new-vpx-feature-surround-sound-output/

 

So that's the current state of affairs with PMD. The diagrams above are self explanatory and thanks to these, we have found that users now have a much better understanding of PMD and the simplicity of the system.

 

I will continue to update the above section with new developments as they arise.

 

From this point on, you will be reading the development thread (contains installation images). Please note that early recommendations and results contained in this thread may no longer apply to the above PMD Mk2.

 

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ORIGINAL DEVELOPMENT THREAD CONTINUES.....

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*PLEASE NOTE: This thread covers the evolution of Poor Man's DOF (Sound Driven Tactile Feedback), please read to the end, as the PMD found there is far more advanced and effective that what you will find early in this thread.

 

Also, I will update this section with users's PMD reviews as they come in, rather than having you hunt for them through the thread....

 

1: 18mm High Density MDF - "Could be better. Too dense for really good vibe transmission. Exciter placement is critical." (Reported by @RustyCardores)

2: 16 or 18mm Pine (custom lockdown bar) - "Brilliant! Transmits every vibe from the smallest ball rolling to the loudest bumper. Hands on the actual vibe plate is extremely effective." (Reported by @RustyCardores)

3: Plywood (23 year old Judge Dredd) - "Excellent! JayCar Amp and Exciters mounted on side under flipper buttons." (Reported by @Jed)

4: Plywood (original F-14 cab with Dayton Exciters) - "WHAT AN EFFECT ! You can feel every bump, droptarget, kicker, and such, it's just great !" (Reported by @Nemo)

5: 16mm MDF - "I'm using a 16mm MDF CAB and and didn't expect much feel, but F#%cking amaze balls it feels real." (Reported by @DalasJ)

 

And for those of you who couldn't be stuffed reading this thread and just want to jump right in boots 'n all, here is my personal shopping list for the parts needed... (Most parts listed are from Jaycar Australia, but our international readers should easily be able to find matching products from local suppliers. Google is your friend!)

 

2 x Lepy 838 Amps https://www.aliexpress.com and search "Lepy 838"

4 (5 if you want one under the lockdown) x 70mm Exciters https://www.jaycar.com.au/70mm-flat-panel-exciter-speaker/p/AS3039

1 x Subwoofer https://www.jaycar.com.au/4-paper-cone-woofer-midrange/p/CW2190 (or https://www.jaycar.com.au/5-paper-cone-woofer-midrange/p/CW2192 if you have space and a little more $)

Plus some speaker wire and a bit of timber to mount the audio sub (bracket it off the back of the cab or run it across from both sides... whatever works in your cab)

 

Change from $200... how much will depend on what stuff you have laying around. I have heaps of RCA leads/splitters/speaker wire/timber from projects over the years and that has allowed me to keep things around the $150-160 mark.

 

*** PMD Scripts Mods (Table sound & balance tweaks to suit PMD configured pinCabs) are available at http://vpinball.com/VPBdownloads/categories/pmd-sound-driven-tactile-feedback/

 

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Original Post:

 

Doing an update on my vPinCab's tactile feedback today and thought some of you may like to see it.

 

Not having the $$$$ (or the will) to venture down the full on DOF route, I use a Boombox vibration sound driver mounted under my custom lockbar. Until today, I had one driver mounted in the middle, but I have now moved it to the side under my left hand and added a second Boombox under my right (used a 2x splitter on the TV audio out). This of course increases the amount of feedback that I feel.

 

Mechanical sounds have been separated from music/voice in VP's audio options and these are supplied the playfield TV and then on to the Boomboxes.

 

Boombox units (aka X-Vibe3) can be found online (China) for as little as $20 free delivery and they can be installed in less than a minute. If you have been wanting feedback, but are like me and $$$ or motivation has stopped you installing DOF, then I can recommend this method as a cheap & easy alternative.

 

It really is quite effective.... I feel every bump of the ball, I feel the flippers activate, hell I even feel the ball rolling on the table... and I don't think DOF even goes that far does it?

 

The only issue I see for some, is the sound itself. Boomboxes will turn anything into a speaker, but the sound will vary with the material used. Mine sounds great on a timber lockbar, but stainless may sound different. So I wouldn't rule out the need of laminating a bit of ply under the stainless to adjust the sound. #experiment

 

Cheers

 

Rusty

 

Boom1.thumb.jpg.fe082dd8aefaca50eb3096a43d847ece.jpg

Boom2.thumb.jpg.8e01f4818d524f9dd8a5ccc0f3a72f31.jpg

PMD-DIagram-3_DJRobX.thumb.jpg.a272cbd10be5e551cea93fbf6fad25a6.jpg

Edited by RustyCardores
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Beta testing the new VPX with integrated PMD today.... AMAZEBALLS!!!

 

Now I have Backglass, Front Exciters & Rear Exciters all separated. I can manually direct a sound left or right, or fade it front to back (or anywhere in between those).... OR for the majority of sounds I can have VPX automatically calculate the position of the sound effect based on where the ball is.

 

So for example, when the ball rolls over a switch, the accompanying rollover sound comes from the direction of that switch.... or as the ball rolls around the table, the rolling ball sound tracks the ball. :)

 

This is such a huge step forward and I hope that it becomes integrated into the next official VPX release and that table authors include sound positioning into the table releases from the get go.

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Cheering for you Russ, hope your hard work leads to a permanent change and extra functionality for the product.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Aussie Arcade

 

Cheers Mark, Credit has to go to DJRobX for his work on the integration, me banging in some exciters was the easy part. ;)

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Liekwise...great news for you Rusty. Who would have thought? Awesome effort...just need to sell my solenoids LOL

heh.... I'm kinda glad i blew up my dof setup through incompetance....as the exciter speakers do a way better/more versatile job anyway :)

 

Rob Ross's new (and very clever) surround sound code being implemented in vpx tables from now on is a big win for people using tactile speakers. This big step would not have come about if not for rusty's tireless spruiking of PMD far and wide. Well done Rusty.

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DJRobX and I are still in discussion and there "may" be more changes to come.

 

Primarily for the table authors, as it may be possible to apply VPX surround sound automagically to objects, specifically based on their x/y coordinates on the table. Users will still be able to use the Left/Right Back/Front & Volume sliders in the Sound Manager to position sounds to their own liking, but the adjustments will be in relation to the starting position as per the object x/y coordinates.

 

This is a VERY exciting concept for me, as the easier we can make it for the table authors, the more you will see effective surround sound right from the very first release of a table. :)

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Today I moved to running VPX as Surround 7.1 instead of Quad.

 

My new mother board supports 7.1, so this means that I no longer need to run a second sound device for the backglass, as it and both PMD amps are fed straight off the motherboard.

 

So what other benefits does using 7.1 offer? I dunno, but surely I can put the leftover channels to some use ;)

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I just bought a another amp, Lepy this time ($8 US on aliexpress with coupon!). But wondering if I need two. or maybe another sub? I'd be curious to see how you have 7.1 setup. or a diagram showing a good 5.1 setup.

 

Question: With the new VP with surround, how do all mech sounds get to one sub?

Do I need two subs for front and back channels? Or does that negate the sound card sub channel?

Do I need a separate amp for sub channel only?

Or can I route the sub channel to the front and use only one sub, off the front channel amp?

 

As you can tell, I'm confused.

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Hey, wierd thing happening to me last night. I am wiring up all my lights for the pmd. I bought some cheap led arrays aliexpress, they are for car trailers i imagine. 12v DC. Anyway first one I wired up is the blue lights for outside the cab that are on without the trigger, tested they work fine with 4 of them on there. Next is the red that triggers, 2lights and 2 lasers outside, 2 lights inside which will trigger at the same time so ill get blue , red and blue, and red and green, sometimes green only. Anyway i went to test the outside run of 2 lights and 2 lasers and one doesn't light, i pull off the tape to double check, they are soldered together, look fine. So i test from that end it and two others light up. So i have this problem where three light and one doesnt. They don't look dim or anything and light off the 9v setting, i imagine if there wasn't enough amps it would be an all or nothing situation. Any ideas?

 

Sent from my HTC 2PZF1 using Tapatalk

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I've been trying to respond to the above comments but I keep getting frozen out by a "web application firewall" ....WTF??? (lets see if this one works from a different computer)

 

 

WOOT!!!! WTF has happened to my notebook then??

 

- - - Updated - - -

 

I just bought a another amp, Lepy this time ($8 US on aliexpress with coupon!). But wondering if I need two. or maybe another sub? I'd be curious to see how you have 7.1 setup. or a diagram showing a good 5.1 setup.

 

Question: With the new VP with surround, how do all mech sounds get to one sub?

Do I need two subs for front and back channels? Or does that negate the sound card sub channel?

Do I need a separate amp for sub channel only?

Or can I route the sub channel to the front and use only one sub, off the front channel amp?

 

As you can tell, I'm confused.

 

At the moment, I have two cheap Lepy amps. Each amp has normal L/R speaker output plus a sep sub output.

 

One amp drives the rear L/R plus an audio sub down the back of the cab (this sub gives the low audible tone that helps balance things out)

 

The 2nd amp drives front L/R plus an extra tactile exciter (under my timber lockdown) off the sub output. (*This extra exciter, or audio sub if that is what you have, is not really needed if the flipper exciters are providing you enough feedback & sound - This varies with cab construction material used. For me, I like the extra shake this provides, as my cab is a high density MDF and not as good as ply for vibes)

 

In VPX I am using the 7.1 Surround output in Audio prefs and Windows has been configured for 7.1 output.

 

Each PMD amp plugs into separate channel on the sound card, as does the backglass amp for general ROM sound.

 

So the system I just described, is not "true" surround, as the subs are not on their own channel from the sound card. They are an "extra" that the amps make on their own. This works well enough, but it's a hangover from the original "non-surround" PMD. An upgrade would be to add a stand alone sub to the sub output on the 7.1, as this would allow all sub sounds (table and backglass included) to utilise the one sub. I would use this sub to replace the existing rear non-7.1 sub, but I would leave my extra exciter from the front amp just for extra tactile feel.

 

***You don't have to use 7.1 btw ..... For example, you could still run PMDv1 with the backglass off a second sound device by using "Quad" in Windows and "Surround (Front is front)" in VPX prefs. This will feed all four corners of the table with audio (and blends in between) and your PMD amp's sub outputs can feed 1 or 2 subs as desired.

 

I hope that makes sense. ;)

 

- - - Updated - - -

 

Hey, wierd thing happening to me last night. I am wiring up all my lights for the pmd. I bought some cheap led arrays aliexpress, they are for car trailers i imagine. 12v DC. Anyway first one I wired up is the blue lights for outside the cab that are on without the trigger, tested they work fine with 4 of them on there. Next is the red that triggers, 2lights and 2 lasers outside, 2 lights inside which will trigger at the same time so ill get blue , red and blue, and red and green, sometimes green only. Anyway i went to test the outside run of 2 lights and 2 lasers and one doesn't light, i pull off the tape to double check, they are soldered together, look fine. So i test from that end it and two others light up. So i have this problem where three light and one doesnt. They don't look dim or anything and light off the 9v setting, i imagine if there wasn't enough amps it would be an all or nothing situation. Any ideas?

 

Sent from my HTC 2PZF1 using Tapatalk

 

Where do they get power from and how are you triggering them from PMD?

Edited by RustyCardores
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At the moment they are just being wired up, not attached to the pmd. The power source is a ac dc converter from bunnings. It handled 6 led arrays and 2 lasers no worries the night before.

 

Sent from my HTC 2PZF1 using Tapatalk

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At the moment they are just being wired up, not attached to the pmd. The power source is a ac dc converter from bunnings. It handled 6 led arrays and 2 lasers no worries the night before.

 

Sent from my HTC 2PZF1 using Tapatalk

 

ah OK.... so you plan to add optical relays to the sound feed to close the circuit between power source and lights like mine.

 

As to the one not lighting... it's odd that it's not always the same one. :/ ?

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Surround makes sense now, thanks. Thinking I may replace the audio sub with a bass shaker. But won't know until I get my pinscape hooked up and see how the accelerometer reacts.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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This project looks awesome good work Rusty :) Can anybody recommend a good source for finding exciter speakers in the UK ?

 

Thanks

 

EDIT: I found these do you think they would work ok with the Lepy LP-838 ?

 

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Dayton-Audio-TT25-16-Tactile-Transducer/dp/B0073IXASQ/ref=sr_1_1?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1501663082&sr=8-1&keywords=15w+exciter+speaker

Edited by legendkillajay
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Noob question

 

I'm building a cab with a DOF setup, but I'd like to experiment with PMD for feedback not covered by DOF (ball rolling, etc.). I have read the thread, but I cannot seem to understand if 1) this is easy to accomplish, 2) how would I configure VPX for this and 3) do I need to edit all the tables to selectively manage events/effects to be handled by PMD vs. DOF ?

 

I'm getting a couple of amps, 3 exciters, a small woofer and an USB sound card to play with.

 

cheers,

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