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Plasma pop bumpers anyone?


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pricey but they look damn cool though.

 

Depends on the theme of the machine. Would be great with TZ or MET or TAF, among others.

 

I strongly suspect that these mods use the exact same discs that are for sale on eBay. With a bit of ingenuity, it should be possible to finagle them into pop bumper caps.

 

Michi.

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They sure look super cool!! I had a look how to install. Quite complex and I can't see them being reliable at all. They fall in the same category as illuminated flippers. Super cool but expensive and not reliable.
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What's the profit margin on these? 90%? Ridiculous - they do look very cool though

 

That's how most mods seem to work, take a toy from the shop, add a bracket or an LED and charge 5 times as much. Then when someone else does it themselves, get on Pinside and blow up about copycats

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Why do you think they are not reliable? Just curious…

 

Michi.

 

I am concerned that the driver is seperated from the screen and needs to be mounted somewhere underneath the playfield. Finding room for three drivers might be an issue but more protecting the wires from pop bumper movement damage. I probably should add that I was thinking more of reliability issues of a commercially available unit and not so much of a home mod.

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What's the profit margin on these? 90%? Ridiculous - they do look very cool though

 

You might be stunned at what margins are (and are NOT) on many things from China - like these plasma discs.

 

LCD TVs have had the guts cut out of margins by fierce competition from retailers and the actual factories so margins on most of these are wafer thin. I have seen margins of $20 on a large screen TV and the invoices to back it up.

 

Things like power supplies, these plasma discs and the whole range of electronic "gadgets" you see for sale at Jaycar, BigW, KMart, JB Hi-Fi etc etc have margins of many hundreds of percent.

 

Now before running off and complaining think about Australian consumer law.

 

If your new 12V 5A power supply that you bought from Jaycar for $44.95 here:

 

https://www.jaycar.com.au/powertech-switchmode-power-supply-60-watt-12v-5a/p/MP3170

 

....fails after 30 days, you will demand they repair/replace it, right? OK, repairing it is out of the question so they replace it (which I'm sure they would).

 

Guess what, there is NO WARRANTY for companies buying stuff from China. You can usually negotiate a small failure rate percentage into a deal, say 1 or 2%. If you are a very tough negotiator (and depending on the product) you might get them up to 5% on a good day.

 

This means the factory will give you the failure percentage in goods for free when you place an order. IE: If I buy 1000 widgets they will give me an extra 1% for free to cover any warranty issues.

 

So the power supply you buy from Jaycar that retails for $45 has to allow for better than the 1% the factory gave them because Australian consumer law will insist you are able to get a replacement probably for at least a year, maybe longer.

 

Jaycar have retail shops and staff, advertising, insurances, superannuation, tax, shop upgrades and profit to make (hopefully). They have no option but to build in a higher rate of redundancy. You might say "buy better products" but that's not always the issue.

 

You can buy a similar power supply from many places such as Taobao here:

 

https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?id=546168697148&ali_refid=a3_430008_1006:1150136335:N:12v+5a:159dccbd54b82809c04afd2fdca3f33e&ali_trackid=1_159dccbd54b82809c04afd2fdca3f33e&spm=a230r.1.0.0.ebb2eb2IlmaZ5

 

....for 18RMB (less than AU$5) and I'm guessing Jaycar pay less than that.

 

Where does the extra $40 go? all of the above reasons and more - import duties (NOT a tax according to the Govt) shipping broker fees, trucking inside Australia costs, back of house staff to do all the paperwork as well as accountants etc etc.

 

I have been involved in returns for electronic items and guess what - about 30% of the items I was looking at actually had a problem, the rest, nothing. Returned because the customer didn't want it, didn't know how to use it etc etc. That's another reason retailers have to build in extra margins - to cover the dickheads who think it is their God given right to return anything for any reason no matter what. No packing, nothing - what does the retailer do with that? They either throw it away or send it to auction to recoup a small percentage if they can.

 

So before suggesting the markups are ridiculous please take all factors into consideration OR buy direct from China yourself and carry the responsibilities yourself, simple really.

Edited by Homepin
spwelling as usual
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I am concerned that the driver is seperated from the screen and needs to be mounted somewhere underneath the playfield. Finding room for three drivers might be an issue but more protecting the wires from pop bumper movement damage. I probably should add that I was thinking more of reliability issues of a commercially available unit and not so much of a home mod.

 

It's a harsh environment, I admit, with all the vibration from the pops. The drivers have no moving parts though and are normally completely encased in resin, so I'd expect them to hold up quite well. The wires are probably no worse than the existing wires that run into the bumpers for illumination. I'd be more concerned about the plasma disc itself. It's essentially a gas discharge tube (well, a very flat tube ;) ). If that doesn't stay 100% sealed, it's game over. Protecting the disc from impact would probably be the most critical thing for this mod.

 

I guess we won't know until someone tries… I would, but the plasma discharge really doesn't fit the theme of my POTC, as much as I like the effect.

 

Michi.

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You might be stunned at what margins are (and are NOT) on many things from China - like these plasma discs.

 

LCD TVs have had the guts cut out of margins by fierce competition from retailers and the actual factories so margins on most of these are wafer thin. I have seen margins of $20 on a large screen TV and the invoices to back it up.

 

Things like power supplies, these plasma discs and the whole range of electronic "gadgets" you see for sale at Jaycar, BigW, KMart, JB Hi-Fi etc etc have margins of many hundreds of percent.

 

Now before running off and complaining think about Australian consumer law.

 

If your new 12V 5A power supply that you bought from Jaycar for $44.95 here:

 

https://www.jaycar.com.au/powertech-switchmode-power-supply-60-watt-12v-5a/p/MP3170

 

....fails after 30 days, you will demand they repair/replace it, right? OK, repairing it is out of the question so they replace it (which I'm sure they would).

 

Guess what, there is NO WARRANTY for companies buying stuff from China. You can usually negotiate a small failure rate percentage into a deal, say 1 or 2%. If you are a very tough negotiator (and depending on the product) you might get them up to 5% on a good day.

 

This means the factory will give you the failure percentage in goods for free when you place an order. IE: If I buy 1000 widgets they will give me an extra 1% for free to cover any warranty issues.

 

So the power supply you buy from Jaycar that retails for $45 has to allow for better than the 1% the factory gave them because Australian consumer law will insist you are able to get a replacement probably for at least a year, maybe longer.

 

Jaycar have retail shops and staff, advertising, insurances, superannuation, tax, shop upgrades and profit to make (hopefully). They have no option but to build in a higher rate of redundancy. You might say "buy better products" but that's not always the issue.

 

You can buy a similar power supply from many places such as Taobao here:

 

https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?id=546168697148&ali_refid=a3_430008_1006:1150136335:N:12v+5a:159dccbd54b82809c04afd2fdca3f33e&ali_trackid=1_159dccbd54b82809c04afd2fdca3f33e&spm=a230r.1.0.0.ebb2eb2IlmaZ5

 

....for 18RMB (less than AU$5) and I'm guessing Jaycar pay less than that.

 

Where does the extra $40 go? all of the above reasons and more - import duties (NOT a tax according to the Govt) shipping broker fees, trucking inside Australia costs, back of house staff to do all the paperwork as well as accountants etc etc.

 

I have been involved in returns for electronic items and guess what - about 30% of the items I was looking at actually had a problem, the rest, nothing. Returned because the customer didn't want it, didn't know how to use it etc etc. That's another reason retailers have to build in extra margins - to cover the dickheads who think it is their God given right to return anything for any reason no matter what. No packing, nothing - what does the retailer do with that? They either throw it away or send it to auction to recoup a small percentage if they can.

 

So before suggesting the markups are ridiculous please take all factors into consideration OR buy direct from China yourself and carry the responsibilities yourself, simple really.

 

What you are saying is so true. Only people who actually have run their own business learn about the enormous hidden costs (in particular in Australia). Once they are accounted for that huge margin does not look that huge anymore!

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You might be stunned at what margins are (and are NOT) on many things from China - like these plasma discs.

 

LCD TVs have had the guts cut out of margins by fierce competition from retailers and the actual factories so margins on most of these are wafer thin. I have seen margins of $20 on a large screen TV and the invoices to back it up.

 

Things like power supplies, these plasma discs and the whole range of electronic "gadgets" you see for sale at Jaycar, BigW, KMart, JB Hi-Fi etc etc have margins of many hundreds of percent.

 

Now before running off and complaining think about Australian consumer law.

 

If your new 12V 5A power supply that you bought from Jaycar for $44.95 here:

 

https://www.jaycar.com.au/powertech-switchmode-power-supply-60-watt-12v-5a/p/MP3170

 

....fails after 30 days, you will demand they repair/replace it, right? OK, repairing it is out of the question so they replace it (which I'm sure they would).

 

Guess what, there is NO WARRANTY for companies buying stuff from China. You can usually negotiate a small failure rate percentage into a deal, say 1 or 2%. If you are a very tough negotiator (and depending on the product) you might get them up to 5% on a good day.

 

This means the factory will give you the failure percentage in goods for free when you place an order. IE: If I buy 1000 widgets they will give me an extra 1% for free to cover any warranty issues.

 

So the power supply you buy from Jaycar that retails for $45 has to allow for better than the 1% the factory gave them because Australian consumer law will insist you are able to get a replacement probably for at least a year, maybe longer.

 

Jaycar have retail shops and staff, advertising, insurances, superannuation, tax, shop upgrades and profit to make (hopefully). They have no option but to build in a higher rate of redundancy. You might say "buy better products" but that's not always the issue.

 

You can buy a similar power supply from many places such as Taobao here:

 

https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?id=546168697148&ali_refid=a3_430008_1006:1150136335:N:12v+5a:159dccbd54b82809c04afd2fdca3f33e&ali_trackid=1_159dccbd54b82809c04afd2fdca3f33e&spm=a230r.1.0.0.ebb2eb2IlmaZ5

 

....for 18RMB (less than AU$5) and I'm guessing Jaycar pay less than that.

 

Where does the extra $40 go? all of the above reasons and more - import duties (NOT a tax according to the Govt) shipping broker fees, trucking inside Australia costs, back of house staff to do all the paperwork as well as accountants etc etc.

 

I have been involved in returns for electronic items and guess what - about 30% of the items I was looking at actually had a problem, the rest, nothing. Returned because the customer didn't want it, didn't know how to use it etc etc. That's another reason retailers have to build in extra margins - to cover the dickheads who think it is their God given right to return anything for any reason no matter what. No packing, nothing - what does the retailer do with that? They either throw it away or send it to auction to recoup a small percentage if they can.

 

So before suggesting the markups are ridiculous please take all factors into consideration OR buy direct from China yourself and carry the responsibilities yourself, simple really.

 

Interesting insights. No wonder online retailers are making a killing.

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I might wonder obout their lifespan or reliability. Mods are cool, but a partially working mod isn't... will they just be another thing to go wrong? How will they like being subjected to vibration and the thumping? ... I think they look cool, but might wait to see if it's really worth it perhaps. ;)
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I might wonder obout their lifespan or reliability. Mods are cool, but a partially working mod isn't... will they just be another thing to go wrong? How will they like being subjected to vibration and the thumping? ... I think they look cool, but might wait to see if it's really worth it perhaps. ;)

 

There are no moving parts. It's a dead-simple device. Just a high-voltage electrode inside a neon-filled insulating chamber. Pretty much the only way for it to stop working is to have a leak that lets the gas escape. A ball hitting in the wrong spot might do that, or the endless vibration might weaken whatever sealant is used to close off the point where chamber was evacuated and filled with the noble gas.

 

I suspect the only way to find out is actually try it. Seeing that these bumper caps are available, I would assume that they'll last a few months at least. But at the price, it's still an expensive experiment…

 

Michi.

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There are no moving parts. It's a dead-simple device. Just a high-voltage electrode inside a neon-filled insulating chamber. ....

 

A diode is a dead simpler device with no moving parts, yet they fail Lol :P .... I might have been just as concerned about what level of quality control, or manufacuring standards. As you point out, only way is to try.... but in this case I rekon I'm happy to let others try for a bit :)

 

- - - Updated - - -

 

Where does this high voltage supply come from I wonder? ... anyone know?

Edited by furballx
Quote fixed
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Where does this high voltage supply come from I wonder? ... anyone know?

 

It comes with a simple switching power supply that turns low-voltage DC (probably 6V) into high-voltage AC (typically 2-5 kV at 20-30 kHz).

 

Michi.

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  • 3 weeks later...
You might be stunned at what margins are (and are NOT) on many things from China - like these plasma discs.

 

LCD TVs have had the guts cut out of margins by fierce competition from retailers and the actual factories so margins on most of these are wafer thin. I have seen margins of $20 on a large screen TV and the invoices to back it up.

 

Things like power supplies, these plasma discs and the whole range of electronic "gadgets" you see for sale at Jaycar, BigW, KMart, JB Hi-Fi etc etc have margins of many hundreds of percent.

 

Now before running off and complaining think about Australian consumer law.

 

If your new 12V 5A power supply that you bought from Jaycar for $44.95 here:

 

https://www.jaycar.com.au/powertech-switchmode-power-supply-60-watt-12v-5a/p/MP3170

 

....fails after 30 days, you will demand they repair/replace it, right? OK, repairing it is out of the question so they replace it (which I'm sure they would).

 

Guess what, there is NO WARRANTY for companies buying stuff from China. You can usually negotiate a small failure rate percentage into a deal, say 1 or 2%. If you are a very tough negotiator (and depending on the product) you might get them up to 5% on a good day.

 

This means the factory will give you the failure percentage in goods for free when you place an order. IE: If I buy 1000 widgets they will give me an extra 1% for free to cover any warranty issues.

 

So the power supply you buy from Jaycar that retails for $45 has to allow for better than the 1% the factory gave them because Australian consumer law will insist you are able to get a replacement probably for at least a year, maybe longer.

 

Jaycar have retail shops and staff, advertising, insurances, superannuation, tax, shop upgrades and profit to make (hopefully). They have no option but to build in a higher rate of redundancy. You might say "buy better products" but that's not always the issue.

 

You can buy a similar power supply from many places such as Taobao here:

 

https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?id=546168697148&ali_refid=a3_430008_1006:1150136335:N:12v+5a:159dccbd54b82809c04afd2fdca3f33e&ali_trackid=1_159dccbd54b82809c04afd2fdca3f33e&spm=a230r.1.0.0.ebb2eb2IlmaZ5

 

....for 18RMB (less than AU$5) and I'm guessing Jaycar pay less than that.

 

Where does the extra $40 go? all of the above reasons and more - import duties (NOT a tax according to the Govt) shipping broker fees, trucking inside Australia costs, back of house staff to do all the paperwork as well as accountants etc etc.

 

I have been involved in returns for electronic items and guess what - about 30% of the items I was looking at actually had a problem, the rest, nothing. Returned because the customer didn't want it, didn't know how to use it etc etc. That's another reason retailers have to build in extra margins - to cover the dickheads who think it is their God given right to return anything for any reason no matter what. No packing, nothing - what does the retailer do with that? They either throw it away or send it to auction to recoup a small percentage if they can.

 

So before suggesting the markups are ridiculous please take all factors into consideration OR buy direct from China yourself and carry the responsibilities yourself, simple really.

 

Except we are not talking about an Australian business here, nor a bricks and mortar operation, so your commentary, while interesting, is not really relevant in this case. Australian consumer law applying to online purchases from overseas is a grey area at best.

At the end of the day they can charge as much as they like; the market will be the judge, and there is certainly precedent for pinball people paying ridiculous prices for mods. The product looks kick-arse...just a shame they are so expensive.

Btw it is mathematically impossible for a product to have margins of many hundreds of percent, unless your costs are negative!

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