Jump to content
Due to a large amount of spamers, accounts will now have to be approved by the Admins so please be patient. ×
IGNORED

TAITO Defender


Recommended Posts

Here is my starting point with the cab.

Wasn't kidding myself that it needed a lot of work, and was missing most original parts.

Painted black by an op years earlier and used as a "Wild Bill" gambling machine.

 

The only real positive was that it came with an original marquee (I hadn't seen many).

 

1220011715_CABJUSTHOMEcopy.thumb.jpg.628fd45fc1cb7d9bd37ce29db42196a7.jpg

 

73161348_OPSWILDBILLMARQUEEcopy.thumb.jpg.189c28e1049866515f127bf1a3320bff.jpg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The Taitos were a dream to operate. Nice and light yet strong and the paint job allowed for some damage that wasn't easierly noticed because of the paint scheme.

 

They were also very well balanced with decent sized wheels.

 

Just a point of trivia, the metal brackets mounted on the top of the cab were for hanging the machines on the conveyor in the assembly plant.

 

The machines were hung from that point using a round bar going from one side bracket to the other and it allowed the machines to move along the assembly line while being hung and perfectly balanced.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just a point of trivia, the metal brackets mounted on the top of the cab were for hanging the machines on the conveyor in the assembly plant.

 

The machines were hung from that point using a round bar going from one side bracket to the other and it allowed the machines to move along the assembly line while being hung and perfectly balanced.

 

Thanks for that mate, I've asked a few people over the years and no one could give me a definitive answer.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Wondered that myself steve.... had pictured them being hoisted around as they are so light without (or even with) a monitor.

Id never seen a topper on these, so couldn't imagine any other use.

 

- - - Updated - - -

 

Got stuck in a time machine for a weekend - heating and peeling off the old black paint.

As expected there is a fair patina on the sides and front (1981 cab?), but thankfully no full sanding before being painted over with black.

 

1637570606_REMOVINGBLACK1copy.thumb.jpg.5db4f272de9095da6667b65a8433de70.jpg

 

1206188850_REMOVINGBLACK2copy2.thumb.jpg.614a38f2ab63e255fcd062bd59b576e2.jpg

Edited by Sam J
Link to comment
Share on other sites

It was a lot of slow peeling and scraping mainly… heater just helped the paint let go a little.

The hair dryer and heat gun overheated a small area and you could only peel paint off in 1 cm bits.

Yes it was tedious, but we got there.

 

- - - Updated - - -

 

Now remove front lower cash box section that will need to be replaced (dowel/ glued/ screwed), remove control panel, power supply and transformer… pretty much everything but the wiring loom, then give the cab a good vac out and clean up.

 

315817769_REMOVELOWERFRONT.thumb.jpg.6b38f901f0370fe65e719054da9f4acd.jpg

 

625140679_STRIPDOWN2.thumb.jpg.c3bc78b38e14b487117302fa48a32dea.jpg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It then sat at this stage for most of the last 2 months as I was working flat out.

 

I eventually found a free morning and ripped the coin door out, stripped and ready for a quick painting.

It has been bent out of shape by someone with a metal bar in the coin return, so needed to get the panel hammers out before sanding back and masking.

 

1749674880_COINDOORSTRIP.thumb.jpg.6fb95a0554b3e85ebc92477ba0ba8a2e.jpg

 

1442534081_PANELBEATCOINDOOR.thumb.jpg.b0a732a40bd91204f00844775f83a5f0.jpg

 

527816153_COINDOORREPAINTED.thumb.jpg.03931b5450aefa9a227202849fe20de7.jpg

 

330681868_COINREBADGE.thumb.jpg.9b0b52b5552703943f24d2325eaf75b7.jpg

 

I also managed to track down a glass defender bezel.

Thanks again for your help @aaablettt

 

1545904531_GLASSBEZELFOUND.thumb.jpg.ef6aa92ae5c438b2c996593b296aa935.jpg

 

 

Cleaned a ton of overspray from both the marquee, and sanded the inside of the back door

(which actually looks like it was just used to paint a generic control panel silver on at some stage - check the 1st photo in thread - abuse!!).

While I was at it painting, I quickly returned the marquee bracket back to it's original matt black and fixed the marquee light.

 

1371046946_BACKDOOROVERSPRAY.thumb.jpg.ea345c345dc5f531e0eb2ba3eb2ef121.jpg

 

1513493266_MARQUEEBACKDOORANDBEZELS.thumb.jpg.cb771edc44b5330e995f267fde0fa735.jpg

 

Getting there bit by bit.

At least by this stage the cab was clean inside and ready for a monitor and chassis.

Edited by Sam J
spelling
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I liked the shape and weight of the red defender cabs. They looked cool but could only take a 25" monitor as a east west so they were basically the first ones we moved on after years of 20" service.

 

The better cabs for the 25" were the old Moon Cresta square shaped purple cabs that come out earlier than the red Defenders.

 

Somewhere between the red Defenders and the squarer purples came a lite green cab shaped exactly the same as the red defenders and it has the same black pasterns of squares as the reds.

 

I have one of those. Not real sure what game it was fitted with but I know we didn't have many so I grabbed the best we had when they were being phased out.

 

It does look good beside the red I have but is sitting in a shipping container ATM.

 

Strange, I can't even find a picture of this green cab on the net.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Next was installing a 20" monitor and chassis that I had ready for this cab, only to find out it was a touch too big for the Taito mounts.

Damn.

 

740393550_TUBEDONTFIT.thumb.jpg.ccdb0eae94cbe1234ef3fff3eef77030.jpg

 

So a generic cab that Id turned into an Altered Beast/ Shinobi was now the proud donor of a (correctly fitting) Nanao monitor and chassis.

It means another cab is out of action in the meantime which is annoying, but fortunately the generic cab has it's monitor mounted on wood, not a metal frame, so hoping I can route or cut the extra inch to have that one back to life ASAP.

 

Time for transplant...

 

TRANSPLANT.thumb.jpg.f9fed93cd668d92180e8057bc949d0e7.jpg

 

722147608_SCREENIN.thumb.jpg.a9656e38720c6f2821f5063fc5057573.jpg

 

- - - Updated - - -

 

Hooked it all up without too much trouble, with the only weird thing being that the jamma harness that came with the machine seemed to be smaller than all other jamma connections Ive had before. The wires on the harness seem to be nice and thick/ older type, and I'll only be using a 19 in 1 multi board at first, so I just filed the jamma connector out 1mm on each end and we were in business.

 

IT's ALIVE!

 

396888130_ITSALIVE.thumb.jpg.07a0c85c4a7bb40036b04c253a95c163.jpg

Edited by Sam J
punctuation
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Cool. Could never play defender to save my life, but have respect for those who can :)

 

Respect ME :sm1::038::p

 

Great to see another Defender fan giving a cab new life and love :cool:

 

When you get around to the CP I recommend one of these joysticks http://www.jbgaming.co.uk/controls/zeroplay-2way-joystick/

 

Also you will need proper leaf switches fine tuned at least for the fire and thrust buttons, the others can be micros if you don't want to go to the expense of using all leafs.

 

If you use facebook the group Williams Defender Players Unite is a great resource, many awesome players and even some of the Williams developers.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thanks for that link @Rat! Ive just started reading through all the strategy links you sent me ages ago when I was first looking.

Now in the last couple of months I reckon Ive seen 15 Defenders, probably 5 or 6 of them Williams uprights.

 

I have a Seimitsu LS 32 joystick to get me started (right now I only have a 19 in 1 Rev A board, so it's locked onto brutal difficulty anyway).

The throw and shaft are fairly short, so I was hoping it would sit nice and low to the reverse button. If not, your leaf switch joystick looks awesome.

 

The mock control panel I have on it at the moment has leaf switches on all buttons, although I was hoping to try to use some original

Taito buttons, I can see how for fire and thrust you need sensitive and fast switch. I'll have to make the call soon so I know what size holes to drill!

@Kaizen has been a legend in providing tons of info and pics of Taito uprights, and is cutting out the wooden part of the control panel for me.

Thanks again for that mate!

 

 

Once I had the monitor in I couldn't resist running the extra P1 S4/S5 buttons from the harness and rigging up some rough controls.

I said it was to get the loom ready for the control panel coming, but really I had to have a crack at it.

 

341732373_WIREUPCONTROLS.thumb.jpg.064f3d96cbd07d2600030a00419b68d3.jpg

 

465150620_MOCKCONTROLS.thumb.jpg.6f93a7365265c84ea91baba00b2a57c5.jpg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Original Taito buttons and original Taito leaf switch joysticks you are after?.

Yeah Im pretty keen to get it as original as possible, then maybe as Rat said swap out the 2 main buttons for playability if need be.

 

An AA member has offered me some Taito buttons, and Id considered getting NOS pinball buttons that were similarly shaped to be flush with the control panel.

 

 

Im told these are the Taito type?

Like micro leaf?

 

1957137432_TAITOBUTTON.jpg.484188b6c1ae1632e87d0ad119858bc9.jpg

 

2025659832_TAITOBUTTON2.jpg.359904510022acf8dc6ce8cd9897ce75.jpg

 

These were the old Gottlieb/ Bally ones I found that seem to be for 1 1/8 inch button holes?

Can't find out much info about depth etc, so might have to hit up someone that knows the older pins that used these.

 

c13900.jpg.7b4fcd90a1d0dabd7ccb32c4becffbce.jpg

 

Like Rat I do really like the full leaf style switches and I think these pinball buttons use those?

 

Early days (don't have wood or metal CP yet) but appreciate opinions on faithful restoring with original parts vs something NOS or new.

Edited by Sam J
spelling
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yep but there are two types. Long and short. Longs are for going through a plywood panel backing used on later model taitos and shorts for going through just the metal panel.

 

The later longs with the plywood are a much better idea, that is why they changed the design. A wood backing behind the metal panel allows for easier attaching of parts than just metal or aluminum it actually is.

 

I wouldn't use leafs on the buttons at all. They were a horrible idea requiring regular cleaning of the leafs and the slightest bit of dirt, they would fail. These were one of the first parts changed on original machines when they were still being fitted with them.

 

As for the Taito joysticks, Defender uses a two way and the game was a pig to play using a 4 way or 8 way joystick setup so you really need a swap over panel for playing Defender as well as other games in the cab.

 

To tell you the truth, unless you want the machine absolutely original, I would steer clear of any leaf switches. I would use the Taito micro buttons because they are easy to clean out and you adjust the pressure simply by using different brands of micros. They never break and just an excellent unit.

 

The joysticks, the Taitos were super light and the micro switch versions are much better than the original leaf ones but externally, they look exactly the same but there are better available these days. The Taitos just have so many parts to them and they all wear and require maintenance to keep that good feel.

 

In the end we were ripping them out and changing for MCA Australia ones, yes MCA use to be Australian made and those original MCAs never break unlike the later ones still called MCA.

 

While the MCAs were no where near as nice a feel as the original Taito joysticks, they never broke either and besides, everyone else in the industry was using MCA anyway.

 

 

Anyway, I have all these types mentioned if you can't get them.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Sorry but I TOTALLY disagree, if you want to play defender well then you WILL need leafs and you will need to adjust them properly and then they will serve you well and trouble free for years. This is backed up by not just myself but all of the worlds best Defender players on WDPU.

 

Yeah sure you can play with micros, but if you have a goal of being a good player and you find you are not achieving that look at your controls.

 

Also you will need to play for enough each day to train your brain synapses to respond involuntarily.

 

If you just want to have a fun blast game of defender now and then yeah sure have micros.

 

@Autosteve is talking from an operators perspective not a players I assume, what is your default dips high score Steve using all micros ?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

And disagree is good. I'm just out to give the pluses and minuses of what I saw and others may see things differently.

 

I enjoy hearing others perspectives and if he wants leafs, that's fine by me. I was never a real fan of videos myself however, I did have a few and Defender was one of my favourites but never in the arcades, only when I had it in a cocktail in my lounge room.

 

It was set as factory settings as I like to keep all my machines so I think that is 3 men and one smart bomb I think and a new smart bomb every 10,000.

 

I had that machine for about 9 months before I sold it to my mate and his wife, he died, and she has it to this day and won't part with it, I have tried.

 

Now if I remember correctly my high scores were around 225,000 at one stage but I actually think that went up to around 850,000 shortly before I moved it on but don't quite me on that. The 225,000 mark I most definitely got regularly.

 

Probably a better way to judge what score seeing as you are still very familiar with it was the main reason I did move it on was because one game was lasting around two-3 hours.

 

What score is most likely at a game time like that?.

 

I'm sure you are well aware after you start getting multiple stars or pods I think they call them, if you go through and shoot each one once filling the screen with swarmers after the star is broken I think they call them, you reverse back through them a couple of time to concentrate there numbers and then smart bomb the screen and pretty much get a smart bomb back immediately if not two so up in the high levels you are basically playing using smart bombs and just tidying up the few remainders by shooting them.

 

Well that was my major strategy but shit, that was over 20 years ago now.:)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I get both perspectives on the buttons. You both have good points from opposite ends of it. It makes a lot sense that leafs would have been a pain in the ass on location when drinks get spilt and the like.

I guess that's why I was on the fence. I really want the original look of the buttons sitting flush with the CP, but I am going to be playing this machine a lot.

 

If I trip over a bag of cash I just might do both… have a "resto" CP with all original parts, and a "comp" panel for when I need to blast that fire button.

I am getting the wooden control panel made up, and Im sure it will feel more solid and better to mount as you say.

It's fast becoming obvious that when I play Defender (as with how I play Moon Patrol - my other fav) relies on 4 or 5 quick burst fire patterns very frequently.

Sad truth with micros is that this method will kill you fire finger in minutes, whereas on my leaf switch setup I can blast for hours, also as sometimes I play somewhere between 1 and 5am - the click gets to me.

 

Wish I could find a leaf button that looked anything like these old Taito ones….

 

Nice scores too @Autosteve - Im still on the L plates (on a pretty awkward mock CP, and the worst 19 in 1) after not playing Defender since about 1988!

Loving it again though! Just forgotten all the tactics. Williams still had the best audio for me

Edited by Sam J
Link to comment
Share on other sites

My 20c worth...

I had both the Williams Cocktail and Taito Upright and played both regularly when I first got them.

The Williams buttons took forever to get right and the contacts do wear and the spring steel breaks over time as @Rat has experienced. Jim on WDPU has the modified joystick option that retrofits bearings to it which makes it a lot smoother and has no play in it so either way they are a good option to look at for long term use.

Being an average Defender player, I wanted to experience the chaos when at the higher levels so I set the dips to allow a new life and smart bombs evey 1000 points.

Basically every time you smash a swarm you instantly get a new smart bomb. I played it all the way through until it clocked over. I had no issues with the fire button and the action on the original microswitches is nice and light and you can also adjust the coil spring tension to your liking.

So in short I had no issue with the original 30+ year old Taito Defender switches.

Just my personal opinion/experience from owning both machines at the same time.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

While I don't have a Defender any longer, I have another Williams title, Smash TV.

 

No buttons, just two 8 way joysticks per player.

 

Not as fast as Defender but lots of blood and gor but most importantly, very hectic and excellent sound.

 

Worthy of a look I think but a bit harder to get. It wasn't exactly a family friendly game.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...