WPC 5V reset workaround.

This looks interesting.

http://www.kahr.us

Better just to fix the issue causing the problem, rather than putting a Band-Aid on it.

Regards,

Johns-Arcade.

Thanks for checking out my new daughterboards

Aussiearcade,

Thanks for taking a look at my new daughterboard solution for WPC resets. I saw my website was linked at the beginning of the thread but wanted to make sure you see the technical details of how the daughterboard changes the power loads for the better throughout the machine - http://www.kahr.us/index2.html. There is also an informative article at http://creditdotpinball.com/2014/04/26/tech-wpc-resets-and-the-wpc-mpu-daughterboard/ . Finally there is a long discussion about my daughterboards on pinside at http://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/announcing-new-product-to-help-resolve-resets-in-wpc-era-games.

The downside is that Virginia is a long way from Australia. I will look into what it costs to ship to Australia and add a paypal button to my website to cut the ebay fee and the pain of their global shipping program. I have to attach a customs form to each shipment; I have no idea whether Australia would look for recipients to pay a tax/duty for importing.

-Rob

Aussiearcade,

 

Thanks for taking a look at my new daughterboard solution for WPC resets. I saw my website was linked at the beginning of the thread but wanted to make sure you see the technical details of how the daughterboard changes the power loads for the better throughout the machine - http://www.kahr.us/index2.html. There is also an informative article at http://creditdotpinball.com/2014/04/26/tech-wpc-resets-and-the-wpc-mpu-daughterboard/ . Finally there is a long discussion about my daughterboards on pinside at http://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/announcing-new-product-to-help-resolve-resets-in-wpc-era-games.

 

The downside is that Virginia is a long way from Australia. I will look into what it costs to ship to Australia and add a paypal button to my website to cut the ebay fee and the pain of their global shipping program. I have to attach a customs form to each shipment; I have no idea whether Australia would look for recipients to pay a tax/duty for importing.

 

-Rob

No tax/duty when it's under $1,000

Get the shipping down to a reasonable rate and you'll probably sell a boat load over here.

No tax/duty when it's under $1,000

 

Get the shipping down to a reasonable rate and you'll probably sell a boat load over here.

So I put Australia on my web site today with the EU for US$33 including shipping because the US Post Office quoted me $8 to ship it. Now, the padded envelopes I use to ship will hold 4 and stay under the weight limit so I could do four in a single shipment for US$108 (33 for the first one and 25 for the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th). Would there be interest in that?

I don't have a boat load but I am reasonably stocked - about 95 built/tested, 50 half-built, and parts in route for 200 more. That may sound like a lot but going into the Allentown, PA pinball show a week ago I had just over 200. I'm not giving up - if I do run out it will be temporary and I will restock.

-Rob

So I put Australia on my web site today with the EU for US$33 including shipping because the US Post Office quoted me $8 to ship it. Now, the padded envelopes I use to ship will hold 4 and stay under the weight limit so I could do four in a single shipment for US$108 (33 for the first one and 25 for the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th). Would there be interest in that?

 

I don't have a boat load but I am reasonably stocked - about 95 built/tested, 50 half-built, and parts in route for 200 more. That may sound like a lot but going into the Allentown, PA pinball show a week ago I had just over 200. I'm not giving up - if I do run out it will be temporary and I will restock.

 

-Rob

$8 is excellent. Would cost that to send it domestically over here with our rip off postal service.

$8 is excellent. Would cost that to send it domestically over here with our rip off postal service.

Ok. The 4-pack for $108 is now on http://www.kahr.us .

What a fantastic and efficient re-routing solution! It reduces the existing 5v load, removes excess heat from the 12v reg and transfers excess current from the 12v line for clean MPU operation. Right? I was going to add a new 240vac to 5vdc switch mode supply which would of involved much stuffing around. Your efficient solution destroys that idea. Kudos Rob!

Also, do you have a A 12 Volt Regulator order option for the four pack offer?

Also, do you have a A 12 Volt Regulator order option for the four pack offer?

I can look into that, but I'm worried it will exceed the weight constraints. If you want 4 or more of them it would probably be better to just buy them directly from http://www.ezsbc.com. He offers a slight discount at a quantity of 4 (and again at 10 and again at 100) and I know he ships overseas because he has offered me some good insight that helped make my 4-pack solution possible. I've bought hundreds of their regulators now and can confidently recommend them.

Finny, you summarized it well in one sentence (something I'm not always good at...) Just to be clear, swapping out the 7812 for a switched regulator is an optional endeavor - my daughterboard will work (and not cause heating issues) without the swap-out.

And should the next owner not like the daughterboard, it will be much easier to un-install than the power supply solution you describe.

I can look into that, but I'm worried it will exceed the weight constraints.

I looked into it and it does exceed the weight limit. The good news is it will only add in the neighborhood of 50 to 75 cents to the shipping. Is there interest in a 4-pack of daughterboards with the 12-volt regulators for US$137 (same math for $108 plus $7 per regulator plus an extra buck to cover the shipping) or is what's posted sufficient? If there's interest I'll add the paypal button to my site (http://www.kahr.us).

-Rob

So are you marketing this as a 'fix' or a temporary workaround as was described earlier in the thread by another..?

Woka,

First, thanks for the compliment...

Next, I get asked similar questions a good bit; I'm going to offer excerpts from the creditdotpinball article to expand on my current thinking that (1) because my daughterboard solution improves the balance of the power loading within the WPC system it is good to have installed but (2) temporary or long-term installation is really up to the pinball owner. You can see the whole article at http://creditdotpinball.com/2014/04/26/tech-wpc-resets-and-the-wpc-mpu-daughterboard/ .

CD: What do you say to critics who dub your product as a “Band-Aid” solution? That it ignores a much larger problem by temporarily patching it up and ignoring it?

RK: I get that logic, but I really think I attacked this problem from a more holistic viewpoint. This little daughterboard fundamentally changes the calculus that is power distribution within WPC era games. Why do NASCAR drivers change tires mid-race? If they would just slow down they could get a lot more miles out of those tires! Obviously they are pushing the limits of the tires on every turn to eek out a faster time. The WPC 5-volt rail is similar in that it runs close enough to design thresholds that when it is not pristine problems surface. By reducing the 5-volt load, my daughterboard backs the design away from that bleeding edge and that is better for the MPU and everything that remains on the PDB-derived 5-volt supply.

CD: Who do you see as the main buyers of your daughterboard? Casual players? Tinkerers?

RK: Based on feedback from purchases the spectrum spans from folks who have never opened their backbox to professionals repair shops who maintain machines for others. Some are sitting in tool boxes waiting for a need; others are installed in machines and forgotten about. One was returned because the individual still had resets – he used my board to rule out a 5-volt rail problem, fixed a diode problem elsewhere and then sent the daughterboard back. Go figure.

I personally think it is more interesting to ask where along the well-documented path of best practices for addressing WPC resets should different experience levels reach to my daughterboard. Said another way, if I were the author of Pinwiki, where would I insert “install a daughterboard”? For some it would be very near the end (if at all). For others it should be inserted before a soldering iron is plugged in. And for yet another subset it should be shortly after the “open the backbox” step. I am confident that for everybody it should be ahead of the resistor hack – especially if traces are being cut to separate the regulator from ground. Otherwise it’s debatable – I don’t know where exactly I would insert it into Pinwiki.

My 2 cents in simple context...

The power supply board is inherently faulty in respect of longevity.

Some components only survive or remain in tolerance within its commercial lifespan. After that, tolerance levels may be affected which can trip the watch dog circuit under load.

If board revision Mk 2.0 was produced by Williams, they may have separated the 5v supply in the same way as this simple plugin mod.

After adding the mods we may pose the question, Will the existing untouched ageing components with reduced tolerances cause any catastrophic failures to occur?

As long as the new 12v supply remains in spec there should be nothing major in respect of failure.

I believe that if the 5v threshold lowers to a certain point, all the solenoids jam on and start cooking everything, hence the watch dog circuit design to reset the game.

Then the answer is no… Nothing catastrophic will occur… This mod solves the 5v issue and extends the boards potential longevity…

Can it affect the rest of the games functions like reduced solenoid toque or dimmer lighting? I Don't know.

Any certified electronics techs familiar with Williams care to comment?

All,

Was asked on Pinside to offer a 4-pack of the new "Pro" version that detects under voltages that "would have" caused resets. Now both this new version and the original "Classic" version are available in 4-packs that include international postage.

-Rob

-visit http://www.kahr.us to get my daughterboard that helps fix WPC pinball resets

All,

Both the classic and pro versions of my daughterboard are now slightly smaller, single-PCB solutions. This change reduced the shipping weight enough that I can include four ezSBC 12 volt regulator replacements in the international four-packs for no extra postage. Soooo, if you want 4 daughterboards AND 4 regulators, add both to your Paypal cart before checking out. The regulators are $7 each ($28 for four); same as in the USA. You don't have to buy the regulators but I thought it would be a nice option since 12% of USA sales include the regulator. I don't sell the regulators without the daughterboards; if you only want the regulators visit my friend Daniel's site at ezSBC.com.

Check it out at my website (http://www.kahr.us).

-Rob

-visit http://www.kahr.us to get my daughterboard that helps fix WPC pinball resets

Hi Australia,

It has come to my attention that homepin has developed a knock-off of my daughterboard because of "limited availability" in Australia. I think this old thread demonstrates otherwise - I've made every effort to make my boards available to the International pinball community from my very first days of releasing the product. What's not reflected in this thread is that I have continued to make my daughterboard as accessible as possible in Australia. For example, I have a Transferwise account that allows me to take payments in Australian dollars (so, no PayPal) and when paid with that option I can still ship first class to Australia. Australia and Canada are the only two countries with this first class postage option - the rest of the world seems ripe with fraud. Sure, the good old days of US $8 shipping are gone, but I can still ship a daughterboard to Australia for US $16 first class or for US $34 for Priority Mail. Note that the Priority mail option is a flat-rate package that can hold 20 daughterboards - so organizing a group-buy can be an economical option.

Also notice that from the first days and continuing today I've described my board as a "WPC Power Fix" and not as a 'reset fix'. There are clear references to this in the technical details on my web site, in the credit dot article from 2014 and that theme continues today - as recently demonstrated in the technical presentation I did at the Northwest Show earlier this year in Tacoma, WA (you can see it here: https://www.twitch.tv/videos/432704564 . My piece begins at the 1 hour, 30 minute mark). The homepin knock-off is marketed as a reset-fix product which is disappointing. The multiple power derivations in WPC era games are complex and marketing as a reset-fix is flat-out lying to customers because without some power supply maintenance reset problems can return eventually. It turns out pinsound is also marketing a knock-off and marketing it around a reset fix. Here again, they are lying to customers in an attempt to cash-grab via over-selling. That's just not my style.

Anyway, I'd ask that those who are interested in installing the power fix into their WPC era games to use the genuine KAHR.US WPC Power Fix and not some unlicensed imitation.

-Rob

-visit http://www.kahr.us to get my daughterboard that helps fix WPC pinball resets or my Pinball 2000 H+V Video Sync Combiner kit

My wcs has started resetting after years of running fine , haven’t had a look in the back box for answers , have seen your boards on pinside for a while but the aus dollar always tells me not to pull the trigger ,

I got a spare if you want me to bring it to daves Xmas meet

That would be great , sending you a pm shortly

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Is the homepin one the one pinsound started selling?

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